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Slow Play & Long Putters

tequila4kapp

tequila4kapp

Tom Watson called to say “Hi”
Albatross 2024 Club
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Golf Channel had a long segment with a former USGA Executive Director and another guy, famous sports writer who's name I can't remember.

SO frustrating. In the first segment the old guard gentlemen explains how the integrity of the game must be maintained and how we can't have separate rules for amateurs and pros. In the very next segment the same gentlemen went on to explain that the pro game is not the cause of slow play among amateurs and listed a litany of reasons why the pro game is different and provides additional challenges from amateur golf. UGH! They are more concerned about the wrong thing and are inconsistent in their arguments to support their positions.
 
Its absurd at this point.
 
Integrity of the game is a great term. It can mean whatever you want it to, whenever you want it to. The perfect way to explain things away that have no basis in rationale.
 
Just goes to show how disconnected some are when it comes to these issues. I disagreed with almost everything he had to say. Slow play I'm afraid is here to stay while long putters are on life support. Next is the golf ball.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Golf Channel had a long segment with a former USGA Executive Director and another guy, famous sports writer who's name I can't remember.

SO frustrating. In the first segment the old guard gentlemen explains how the integrity of the game must be maintained and how we can't have separate rules for amateurs and pros. In the very next segment the same gentlemen went on to explain that the pro game is not the cause of slow play among amateurs and listed a litany of reasons why the pro game is different and provides additional challenges from amateur golf. UGH! They are more concerned about the wrong thing and are inconsistent in their arguments to support their positions.
Click to expand...

What do these two things have to do with each other? Of COURSE the pro game is "different", they're playing for millions. And they're BETTER. Is the concept of "Monkey See, Monkey line up 5 footer triple putt for 3 minutes" that incomprehensible to them?
 
It is easier to have contradicting or inconsistent statements. That way no one can tell you that you are wrong.
 
Does anybody have any stats on how long it takes to play a public round of golf now vs. 30 years ago? I'm guessing it's about the same.


I've been irritated by slow play since I was a kid, but I'm also irritated by slow/inattentive drivers, slow people at retail check outs, slow people at amusement parks, etc. Slow play is the main reason I joined a country club a 4 years ago - I have had only a handful of rounds over 4:10 since becoming a member. Most rounds are about 3:40 as a foursome.
 
jmatt said:
What do these two things have to do with each other? Of COURSE the pro game is "different", they're playing for millions. And they're BETTER. Is the concept of "Monkey See, Monkey line up 5 footer triple putt for 3 minutes" that incomprehensible to them?
Click to expand...
If the game is different for pro's than it is for amateurs then it should be easy to say rules or equipment can be different for pros than for amateurs. This is the foundation for virtually all rules justification by the authorities...and think about how silly this is, is there any other sport that doesn't have different rules for amateurs?

So we are told it is one game and the integrity of that game is paramount. Fine. But as soon as it is necessary the same people turn right around and tell us no, the games are different. It is asinine. Maybe you had to see the guy talk and hear his explanations for how amateurs are able to play faster - we don't have to hole out every time was one of the things stated. It is absurd.

It is either one game or it isn't.
 
We don't have to hole out? I know we don't always hole out, but I also know that's against the actual rules we're supposed to play by. No bifurcation, spirit of the game and such, right?
If that was the quality of what they had to say, I'll need a cold one to make any sense of it. Hope there's a replay.
 
I play slower because I hit the ball more times. :banghead:

The game is the same for pros as it is for amateurs, therefore I hold myself to the same set of rules as the pros. If I am playing with Adam Scott and we both hit the same type of ball in the water with the same exact club, we are both dropping and laying the same. I go by the same rules as everyone else. It is much simpler this way. If the rules are going to be inconsistent from one skill level to another, what is the use in having them?
 
I watched the whole segment with David Fay, I agree and I don't really think you can do much about slow play. This is a game that challenges many mentally, I think we all know that, but it's more on the pros than anything. Think about one stroke can mean the difference between making the cut and missing the cut. One stroke can mean the difference between thousands upon thousands dollars. One stroke can mean the difference between a win plus exemptions on tour and having to try a get your status back on tour. I'm fine taking there time making there decisions on shots. They all know what's exceptable and what's wrong. The amateur well I don't know what much more we can do there either. I found myself last week stuck behind a four some of older gentlemen who were moving as fast as they could but because of there lack of distance it slowing them up and I'm sure they had spend time looking for there ball from time to time. Sometimes these things happen and while it frustrates me to be behind people like this I always remember two things, 1. Everyone was a hacker at one point or another and 2. They are paying customers like everyone else and they deserve every right to enjoy themselves.

as far as belly putters, I hate em and I hope they become outlawed. Sorry to those who use them but I'm not a fan and to have two seperate rules for pro and amateurs is jus plain dumb.
 
It seems like these arguments even end with circle logic while they are trying to explain their point on national TV. I seem to end up shaking my head at them more often than not!
 
I think the biggest problem is that they don't seem to have a clue as to what they want to have happen. They want to keep the "pros" and the "amateurs" to the same rules, but then don't want to address the agonizingly slow play on the PGA tour because they claim it's different. Well if the slow play is different why can't the anchored putting be different? Too many conflicting comments anymore, it is taking the credibility away from them.
 
I'm not exactly traveling Joe, but I have made a point to play as many different courses as possible, to include the am tour, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone playing a long or belly putter yet at any of them. So I'm not seeing any need for two sets of rules, ban the long putter. I have yet to see anyone who would be affected by that rule change.
As for slow play, start handing out penalties on tour, that will solve that problem quickly. One warning, then a penalty.
 
Get off my lawn!

Seriously at this point I wish the ncaa was in charge.

~Joseph~
via Tapatalk
 
I am glad I did not see that, I would have simply changed the channel anyway. That is absurd.
 
I missed this but it sounds like I didn't miss much. I agree with pretty much everything that's been posted here.
 
tahoebum said:
Does anybody have any stats on how long it takes to play a public round of golf now vs. 30 years ago? I'm guessing it's about the same.


I've been irritated by slow play since I was a kid, but I'm also irritated by slow/inattentive drivers, slow people at retail check outs, slow people at amusement parks, etc. Slow play is the main reason I joined a country club a 4 years ago - I have had only a handful of rounds over 4:10 since becoming a member. Most rounds are about 3:40 as a foursome.
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Agree 100%. Unless a guy is willing to play during the off hours public course play is going to be slow and always has been since I started playing in the late 80's. This is partly because of generally poor play, partly the lack of basic etiquette/awareness of the participants but in my mind a large part is tour influence. How often do we see (or play with) high handicappers taking multiple pratice swings, "visualizing" the shot, lining up 4-footers like they were about to win the Masters etc. etc. etc. It obviously isn't everybody but it only takes a few of these guys in the groups ahead of you to muck up the flow for the whole course. I'd play more league golf but league golf is brutal with this type of stuff.

Slow play will never really be addressed on tour until a majority of the players themselves make it a priority. They ultimately run the show. The commissioner works for them.
 
I didn't see the piece but I am curious why there is such a vast difference in feelings over the matter? Why do the USGA feel so strongly that is goes against the integrity of the game. We all play the same game and the vast majority up hold the integrity. So why is they are coming from such a different place. What do they know or not know that is aiding Thierry decisions.
I've voiced my views on the ban so I won't rehash but I am curious why there such a huge difference between the two parties.
 
The biggest difference that I see is the slow play on Tour is problem with the players. They seem incapable if even making an effort at changing. In the really bad cases, slow play for the rest of us seems to be more a problem of volume and course overloading, and lack of oversight by trained and empowered rangers.

When a course crams the players in at a 6 or 7 minute interval, there is no chance of a smooth flow. That simply isn't enough space between groups to give them a chance to just play golf, not even counting when problems arise. If a course wants that sort of loading, then they need to shave all of the rough to fairway height so that it's impossible to lose track of the ball. And they need to police the course with trained rangers who are always on top of the situation. A course with that sort of volume can't even allow a group to be a half shot out of position because even that small a delay will start others backing up behind them. That would at least give them an outside chance at a 4½ hour round.

The pros could pick up the pace if they chose to, since they play in threesomes and pairs rather than fourballs, and they take up to 30% fewer strokes than the average casual player. In my opinion, that is their worst crime. When they can play on the weekend in groups of 2 and still can't finish in under 5½ hours, that's pathetic, and I don't give a rat's ass how much money they are playing for.
 
Not just golf, but every sport is taking longer to play.

In football the 2-minute drill can eat up 15 minutes. In baseball, pitchers take forever to throw the ball, and batters step out of the box to adjust their gloves between every pitch. The last 2 minutes of a basketball game can take forever. Examples are endless. Unfortunately this trickles down and affects college, high school, youth, and recreational players. We've been fighting slow play in golf for as long as I can remember (even 50 years ago when 4 hours was considered a long round). I believe we're stuck with slow play - for whatever reasons we want to point to (and there are so, so many, and we all know what they are).

As far as belly putters are concerned, I am biased. I believe they should be left alone. If there was such an advantage, everyone would be using one.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Fourputt said:
The biggest difference that I see is the slow play on Tour is problem with the players. They seem incapable if even making an effort at changing. In the really bad cases, slow play for the rest of us seems to be more a problem of volume and course overloading, and lack of oversight by trained and empowered rangers.

When a course crams the players in at a 6 or 7 minute interval, there is no chance of a smooth flow. That simply isn't enough space between groups to give them a chance to just play golf, not even counting when problems arise.
Click to expand...
Interesting you should mention this. The guy said it was unreasonable / impossible for the pros to play fast when the course was overloaded with modern day large fields of @150 players going out and 11 or 12 minute intervals.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Golf Channel had a long segment with a former USGA Executive Director and another guy, famous sports writer who's name I can't remember.

SO frustrating. In the first segment the old guard gentlemen explains how the integrity of the game must be maintained and how we can't have separate rules for amateurs and pros. In the very next segment the same gentlemen went on to explain that the pro game is not the cause of slow play among amateurs and listed a litany of reasons why the pro game is different and provides additional challenges from amateur golf. UGH! They are more concerned about the wrong thing and are inconsistent in their arguments to support their positions.
Click to expand...


Nah, no one imitates the pros....they dont want their shoes, or clubs...or power fades or....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4TW-mBuGo

i agree with the other post about 8 minute intervals on public courses, if pros cannot meet those timelines per hole, then the average joe hitting twice as many shots (nearly) is surely not going to make 15 minute holes...

the Keegan thing is funny to me...but the likes of the games that get played like the caddy blocking to get more time etc. The gallery argument is a joke, that is a money maker, and part of the fun seeing a tournament...if the "fans" are too much of an inconvenience...well then maybe they need to get their priorities realigned...
 
tequila4kapp said:
Interesting you should mention this. The guy said it was unreasonable / impossible for the pros to play fast when the course was overloaded with modern day large fields of @150 players going out and 11 or 12 minute intervals.
Click to expand...

I've played a few courses with 10 minute intervals and that is more than enough time for a foursome to maintain a good pace with no stacking up. The fourball I play with most often can play an entire par 4 hole in 12 minutes. The 2 and 3 man groups of the Tour certainly ought to be able to do the same.
 
Fourputt said:
I've played a few courses with 10 minute intervals and that is more than enough time for a foursome to maintain a good pace with no stacking up. The fourball I play with most often can play an entire par 4 hole in 12 minutes. The 2 and 3 man groups of the Tour certainly ought to be able to do the same.
Click to expand...

Agree but not enough is done about it. They need to put more rules in place and enforce more of it when it comes to time. It was a real pleasure watching Scott & Cabrera in the masters play-off. That's what it should be like. Not this garbage of J.Day with his ridiculous routine. It was like watching friggin grass grow. Has to be annoying to whomever he partners up with.
 
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