Xbox One and PS4 Systems

[jlukes]

Xbox One has 32mb of ESRAM that increases the max bandwith to like 208gb/sec compared to the PS4's GDDR5 RAM that maxes out at 178gb/sec. This is overlooked by everybody who is just looking at the specs of both machines.

But it is very complex , much like the PS3's cell architecture. PS3, in theory, was said to be the more powerful system, but the complex nature of the architecture proved to be a hurdle that could not jumped by many developers.

I have been on a lot of developer forums trying to educate myself on the new systems, and it seems the similar concerns that were their with the CELL processor are their with XB1's architecture.

 

[JB]

Im going to bow out of this one boys.
First it was media driven and then it was faster and more graphics driven. Both are completely inaccurate. I think people are looking at things differently than I am, so there is no need to debate it.

I truly hope that you guys find the systems that you enjoy and it brings in thousands of hours of gaming.

 

[Canadan]

But it is very complex , much like the PS3's cell architecture. PS3, in theory, was said to be the more powerful system, but the complex nature of the architecture proved to be a hurdle that could not jumped by many developers.

I have been on a lot of developer forums trying to educate myself on the new systems, and it seems the similar concerns that were their with the CELL processor are their with XB1's architecture.

Are they suggesting that much of the issues faced by PS3 developers could potentially be of similar issues for this new age tech by Microsoft?

Interesting.

 

[Mulligan9111]

But it is very complex , much like the PS3's cell architecture. PS3, in theory, was said to be the more powerful system, but the complex nature of the architecture proved to be a hurdle that could not jumped by many developers.

I have been on a lot of developer forums trying to educate myself on the new systems, and it seems the similar concerns that were their with the CELL processor are their with XB1's architecture.

The Xbox 360 had EDRAM which is essentially the same thing as ESRAM. The differences from what I've read is that the ESRAM operates at a faster bandwidth than EDRAM. When Microsoft first gave out the specs of the system they estimated that the ESRAM would only be able to have a max of 108gb/sec. As they tinkered with the system they were able to increase that speed to almost double. This is part of the reason that 3rd party developers could not optimize their games for the Xbox One, they just did not have the final specs for the system soon enough.

Here is a pretty good article from the developers of Call of Duty and the problems they faced developing for the Xbox One:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...all-of-duty-ghosts-dev-infinity-ward-responds

 

[fupresti]

Whats more interesting is that rumors say the OS isn't even finished for the Xbox and I have to assume its already in production to meet the Nov. 22 ship date. I know both systems will have Day One patches, but its a little concerning on both fronts. Seems like rush jobs all around. Won't matter much, both will sell out and be practically impossible to find into the next year.

 

[jlukes]

Are they suggesting that much of the issues faced by PS3 developers could potentially be of similar issues for this new age tech by Microsoft?

Interesting.

Precisely (ie XB1 more powerful but developers don't have the time/resources to tap into it)

 

[Canadan]

Here's a direct comparison of the two systems.. Seems that again the PS4 gets the nod as being more powerful.

Xbox One vs Sony PS4 – GPU and RAM
Xbox One – Comparable to Radeon HD 7000-series, 8GB DDR3 RAM with 32MB eSRAM
PS4 - Comparable to Radeon HD 7000-series, 8GB GDDR5 RAM

The PS4 and Xbox One both use an AMD GPU.

AMD logoAt first glance it seems like their GPUs may be identical, but they are not. The PS4 graphics processor is 50 per cent more powerful, with 1152 shader processors against the Xbox One’s 768. Realising that this sounded pretty bad, Microsoft worked on upping the One's power a bit and on 2 August announced that its GPU speed from 800MHz to 853MHz. It's a nice tweak for the tech heads, but doesn't see the Xbox One match up to the PS4.

Having extra processing power will let the PS4 perform more tasks simultaneously – which should in theory allow for more impressive visual effects.

A more impressive GPU is matched with more impressive-sounding RAM. The PS4 uses GDDR5 RAM, while the Xbox One has more conventional DDR3 memory – and both have 8GB of the stuff.

GDDR5 has much higher bandwidth than DDR3, designed for intensive applications such as in graphics cards, while DDR3 is ‘bog standard’ system memory.

If DDR3 was all the Xbox One had, it’d be in serious trouble. But it also has an eSRAM buffer that should help to bridge the 100GB/sec bandwidth gap between the two RAM types. It has a 32MB chunk of eSRAM that will function as a frame buffer.

The news that the Sony PS4 is (almost) categorically more powerful than the Xbox One is one of the reasons why the PS4 pre-order sold out before the Xbox One's.

With a more powerful GPU and, seemingly, faster memory, the PS4 is clearly out in front on graphical specs.

But how do they pan out compared to PC graphics cards? The Xbox One is said to be on-par with a Radeon 7790, the PS4 a Radon 7870. Unless you're a PC gamer, that's really not going to mean much.

Let's reduce it to cold hard cash. That the Radeon 7790 costs around £100 and the Radeon 7870 £150 tells you all you need to know.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/xbox-one-vs-sony-ps4#cpLABTMFKqjxWimp.99

They linked an article in this but it was from May. says:

"The game is completely different this time around, because Sony has sensibly abandoned the Cell system architecture used in the PS3. The Cell architecture of the PS3 was notoriously difficult to code for, compared to the more familiar PowerPC-based Xbox, thereby piddling away much of the console’s technological superiority.

There’s no getting around it – the Sony PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One. And as much as we may try to look for technical ways Microsoft may have slyly bridged the gap, they just aren’t there – yet." http://www.trustedreviews.com/opini...owerful-than-the-xbox-one#5micSkATsC1k4MVu.99

 

[baldguy]

Yes, it was confirmed by Microsoft that it will still work without it connected. Link below has that info and more on security.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/12/4615458/disconnect-kinect-and-xbox-one-will-still-work

Very interesting link, thanks. I still wonder how many people will leave it connected all the time, even if they don't have to. That goes for the internet connection and the kinect. Keep in mind that just because your XBOne *says* it's not using the kinect and internet connection doesn't mean that it actually isn't. If the machine has been compromised deeply enough, it can tell you it's a pink unicorn, should that be what the hacker desires .

Webcam compromise is more common than people think. It's been used famously to blackmail people in the spotlight by recording "intimate" moments without their knowledge. It's been used to gather credit card numbers, pin numbers, other personal information, etc. It can be used to measure your home/away patterns, record your voice for voiceprint use, even listen to phone conversations for answers to questions like "what's your mother's maiden name" or "what are the last 4 of your social". It's not only about watching you sweat to the oldies. And these are just the things that regular computer webcams been used for *already*... without the individuals ever knowing that the webcams were turned on. imagine what will come if someone finds a way to compromise a standardized, version- and hardware-controlled device that is in millions of homes.

Sorry if I sound paranoid, that's just my job . I think most people would be outright shocked if they saw some of the things I see on a regular basis. And absolutely bored with the rest of what I do . Still, it pays to be cautious and even a bit paranoid. There are people out there who do want your information and will do just about anything to get it.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

Playstation all day for me. Ive always felt like Playstation was superior to Xbox and from what Ive read about both new systems, I see nothing that would lead me to believe the Xbox is now better. Not to mention the PS4 is $100 cheaper.

 

[Buckjob]

Hah, that doesn't concern you at all? Freaks me out.

Does anyone know whether you can use the XBOne without the Kinect hooked up? Can it be a $100 paper weight or does it have to be active for the console to work?

I heard the opposite of JBs post. Maybe that was also changed like the other stuff they did a 180 on since E3. I also wonder how many problems will be caused because of the things they have changed. Hope it doesn't cause any problems but changing so much so late to launch makes me nervous.

I am surprised so many use their systems as media centers. I don't think I've ever uploaded a single song to any of my systems.

Maybe if the new systems incorporate spotify I'll be more inclined to, but with it readily available on my phone/computer/iPod/etc... Just never felt the need.

I downloaded a cd once but didn't use it. I might stream music while I play some games if it was an option but not enough to really care much about it.

I understand your general premise and opinion, but it insinuates that one is inferior on the gaming side and I am not sure its fair to say that as of yet. It would be like saying that the 2014 driver lines that maybe a picture is viewed one is better than the other.

I also understand that one could say well one game showed 1080p on one and 720p on the other. However both devices are capable of 1080p from what I have read so that is a developer option and the developer has been open about it from what I read. If both devices have similar graphics capabilities (and hardware says they do), then features are what separates them and online capability for those that want that. It appears as of now, the features are not really all that close (only in a general sense).

I just don't understand why they would push a game on their system that's running at less than another console. It's part of their big advertising and it's not equal now to ps4 I just think that was a dumb move for advertising even if they are pushing one of the most popular games of all time.

Are they suggesting that much of the issues faced by PS3 developers could potentially be of similar issues for this new age tech by Microsoft?

Interesting.

I've heard the new stuff xbox is pushing isn't used across the board with developers.

 

[Robman7]

They'll all be able to run 1080p as both systems do now. Between the system and your television it will be converted as it has been. I'm sure developers will have endless possibilities with both systems and it will be up to them to make the games look as good as they want

 

[Buckjob]

They'll all be able to run 1080p as both systems do now. Between the system and your television it will be converted as it has been. I'm sure developers will have endless possibilities with both systems and it will be up to them to make the games look as good as they want

I think they max out after these systems come to the ends of their cycles might very well be the last gaming console I buy.

 

[jlukes]

So that whole thing about the XB1 not running COD Ghosts in 1080p because the developers didn't have enough time? False

http://kotaku.com/call-of-duty-makers-explain-why-resolution-is-lower-on-1458105478

Today, the people who make Call of Duty have an official explanation, and it ain't great news for Microsoft. Speaking to Eurogamer, Infinity Ward boss Mark Rubin put it quite candidly: on the Xbox One, they had to sacrifice resolution to get the game running at the 60 frames-per-second they wanted.

P​

"It's very possible we can get it to native 1080p [resolution]. I mean I've seen it working at 1080p native," Rubin said. "It's just we couldn't get the frame rate in the neighborhood we wanted it to be. And it wasn't a lack of effort. It wasn't that it was like last minute. We had the theoretical hardware for a long time. That's the thing you get pretty quickly and that doesn't change dramatically.

P​

"It was more about resource allocation. The resource allocation is different on the consoles. That huge web of tangled resources, whether it's threads-based or if it's GPU threads or if it's memory - whatever it is - optimization is something that could go theoretically on forever."

​

In conversations with Kotaku, game developers have made it clear that the PlayStation 4 is, on paper, the more powerful system. But some of our best sources are split on the long-term ramifications of that power difference.

 

[Xarraan]

From the Executive Producer Mark Rubin

 

[jlukes]

Again, similar to the PS3 Cell processor. The power was there, but the developers didn't have the time or ability to tap into it.

 

[Xarraan]

Again, similar to the PS3 Cell processor. The power was there, but the developers didn't have the time or ability to tap into it.

Exactly and except for internet fan boys it's not a big deal

 

[Canadan]

Exactly and except for internet fan boys it's not a big deal

That's a weird assessment. I'm on the internet, trying to figure out which is the best system, and I think it's a big deal.

Why does someone have to be a fanboy to care which system is better?

 

[jlukes]

Exactly and except for internet fan boys it's not a big deal

It's a huge deal if it is an issue that makes XB1 games run on lower resolution than PS4 games.

On the previous generation, it wasn't a detriment to PS3 games like it is in this case for XB1 - it simply was too complicated for developers to take full advantage of and thus developers could not make PS3 games look better than 360 games

 

[jlukes]

That's a weird assessment. I'm on the internet, trying to figure out which is the best system, and I think it's a big deal.

Why does someone have to be a fanboy to care which system is better?

I have learned that fanboyism usually follows the "whoever smelt it, dealt it" line of thinking


If you are innocently going about your business discussing something and someone calls you a fanboy, the truth is likely that it is indeed them that is the fanboy.

I have gone from a Sony, to Microsoft, and back to Sony Fanboy according to the internets. Pretty funny.

 

[Speedliner]

Re security. It is a real concern, but a sign of the times and every device could be a source of a breach.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/09/26/fbi-man-who-hacked-miss-teen-usas-computer-arrested/

A simple cover is cheap insurance if you're concerned.

 

[baldguy]

Re security. It is a real concern, but a sign of the times and every device could be a source of a breach.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/09/26/fbi-man-who-hacked-miss-teen-usas-computer-arrested/

A simple cover is cheap insurance if you're concerned.

You're right, a cover is a good idea. I guess I'm not just concerned for myself, but for others. 95+% of people using a given technology don't give security a second thought. People install Antivirus software and call it a day, thinking it gives them some form of real protection (it doesn't). They want the shiny features... I mean we all do. It's just too easy to forget that your cell phone and your entertainment system are equipped with the best data-gathering tools a hacker could want. While they might not be as expensive or seem like as much of a computer as the laptop or desktop we install that mostly pointless AV software on, they are in many aspects far more valuable targets. The "always listening" Kinect is a disaster just waiting to happen, IMO.

 

[Canadan]

Semantics, but I'm not sure how a cover would resolve audio breaches.

If I end up with an XBOne, it'll take a lot to not leave the kinect in the box.

 

[baldguy]

agreed - a cover wouldn't resolve audio breaches, but a thick enough one would help. I have no plans for either system in my home, but if I somehow got talked into it I'm sure I would unplug the whole thing when not in use. I currently have my PS3 on a z-wave outlet, so I can be sure it's cut off at the power source any time I like. Even from an app on my phone

 

[Speedliner]

Semantics, but I'm not sure how a cover would resolve audio breaches.

If I end up with an XBOne, it'll take a lot to not leave the kinect in the box.

It wouldn't. If you were breached, what you do intentionally would be exposed. so even if you disconnect when not in use something could be intercepted when you're using the device. I don't plan on having kinect sex with my wife (or anyone) so I'm not too concerned about it. Kidding aside, I plan to educate my kids on the pitfalls of poor judgement as well. That is an issue with all of their devices. It is still much more likely to have a friend purposely post something embarrassing that you entrusted them with than to be hacked,so we all have to start developing good habits with these things.

One day though when this functionality is part of everyday life,security will have to be addressed more thoroughly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Robman7]

So that whole thing about the XB1 not running COD Ghosts in 1080p because the developers didn't have enough time? False

http://kotaku.com/call-of-duty-makers-explain-why-resolution-is-lower-on-1458105478

I'm not calling it false but notice how it says native resolution. it will still run higher but is gonna be a converted signal between xbox and TV like it is now for 360 and most HD tv. Not gonna look as crisp but still gonna be a good picture. Thats where I hope Sony game developers can max out the ps4 as I believe they lacked on ps3 until a few years ago