Philly Golf Guy
#PGG
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2012
- Messages
- 9,103
- Reaction score
- 7
- Handicap
- USGA 14
And now I remember why I avoid the NBA thread. Haha
Really? I think this is pretty good conversation.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
And now I remember why I avoid the NBA thread. Haha
Really? I think this is pretty good conversation.
Yeah I wasn't sure where that Irving pick came from, so I'd agree with you they wouldn't be playing together in CLE. Still though, you had a motivated owner and it was a matter of time before he had the pieces to finally get a ring. I don't know what WS is, but there were a ton of articles on whether MIA was Lebron or Wade's teams and look at who was taking the last shot in those close playoff games in the DAL finals, even last year up until the finals. At that point, LBJ seemed to take things over. In no way, shape for form did LBJ simply show up on the first day and instantly become the leader of the team. It was clearly a process.
And I don't expect LBJ to win a title every year. I just think he took the easy road of going to MIA. I would have loved for him to stay in CLE, turn that city into a basketball dynasty like Jordan did with the Bulls and give back to the area he grew up in. Now he's winning titles for a fan base that will stop going to games when they start to fade for the most part and will be mentioned in the same breath as Wade and Bosh any time these championships are talked about.
Really? I think this is pretty good conversation.
I agree with this -- The boo lebron vs yay lebron debate might be similar to forged v cast, but it's always fun to get into it once in a while haha
Sorry, WS is win shares. It's not the best stat, but it is a pretty good one (as a single number) in showing offensive and defensive contributions. Dan Gilbert had 5 seasons as majority owner to build a team around Lebron which he failed to do. Lebron had no reason to stick through another 4+ year contract with that much uncertainty. We do agree on the Miami fans, though. They are awful (no offense to any of our Heat fans here) as a whole.
Sorry, WS is win shares. It's not the best stat, but it is a pretty good one (as a single number) in showing offensive and defensive contributions. Dan Gilbert had 5 seasons as majority owner to build a team around Lebron which he failed to do. Lebron had no reason to stick through another 4+ year contract with that much uncertainty. We do agree on the Miami fans, though. They are awful (no offense to any of our Heat fans here) as a whole.
Jordan didn't win until 7 seasons in. So LBJ had 2 more to go...
Rk | Player | Salary |
---|---|---|
1 | Shaquille O'Neal | $20,000,000 |
2 | LeBron James | $15,779,912 |
3 | Antawn Jamison | $11,641,095 |
4 | Mo Williams | $8,860,000 |
5 | Anderson Varejao | $6,300,000 |
6 | Delonte West | $4,254,250 |
7 | Daniel Gibson | $4,088,500 |
8 | Jamario Moon | $2,750,000 |
9 | Anthony Parker | $2,644,230 |
10 | Sebastian Telfair | $2,500,000 |
11 | J.J. Hickson | $1,429,200 |
12 | Leon Powe | $855,189 |
13 | Darnell Jackson | $736,420 |
14 | Jawad Williams | $736,420 |
15 | Danny Green | $457,588 |
16 | Coby Karl | $311,896 |
17 | Cedric Jackson | $53,834 |
I think this is a place where many people draw a line in the sand. As lebron grew up near Cleveland, he could have become a very rich man trying to promote the game where his roots are. Rather, he went elsewhere to be successful and as we all know, that left an entire State jaded.
While it's hard to blame him for preferring a place like Miami over Cleveland, that attitude towards him is always going to be there. It's something I wish players of his skill-set would do more of (taking ownership of the franchise that drafted them -- or going to play for their 'home' team).
There's no doubt that Gilbert wanted a winner in Cleveland, and I have even less of a doubt that lebron could have convinced a buddy or two to join him there over the course of his next contract. But that's purely opinion.
I won't get into the LeBron thing. But for some reason in all sports people quickly forget the past and how good some of the greats were. Best playoff performer? Any list that doesn't start and end with Bill Russell is absurd.
You could make that argument, but Jordan also had several championship contributing players on those late 80's teams (Pippen, Grant, Cartwright, etc.). I think the only potential good player LeBron had was Varejao (I'll even throw in Shaq in there), but it was known that AV was injury prone.
Cleveland was just a poorly managed franchise. Below are the salaries for the Cavs during Lebron's last year in Cleveland:Salaries
Rk Player Salary 1 Shaquille O'Neal $20,000,000 2 LeBron James $15,779,912 3 Antawn Jamison $11,641,095 4 Mo Williams $8,860,000 5 Anderson Varejao $6,300,000 6 Delonte West $4,254,250 7 Daniel Gibson $4,088,500 8 Jamario Moon $2,750,000 9 Anthony Parker $2,644,230 10 Sebastian Telfair $2,500,000 11 J.J. Hickson $1,429,200 12 Leon Powe $855,189 13 Darnell Jackson $736,420 14 Jawad Williams $736,420 15 Danny Green $457,588 16 Coby Karl $311,896 17 Cedric Jackson $53,834
Most of those guys were competent enough to take shots off a pass from lebron. Based on his abilities, I still think he's an incredible gifted passer -- But when it got down to the wire I always felt he was more inclined to retain the ball and make mistakes on his own rather than bring in his teammates.
Let's be honest. Even if the options were Daniel Gibson and Mo for 3s, they were both more than capable of hitting the shots. Anyone in the NBA can hit a certain type of shot if the pass gives them space, and these guys all proved that throughout the regular season.
Now, I find this really interesting. I usually don't need to comment in here because: 1) I don't follow the NBA as much as others and, 2) Jank usually has everything covered. But, this comment is completely opposite of why James was always criticized. LBJ never had the killer instinct, and would never be as good as Jordan, or even Kobe, because he continually passed up forcing his own shot and choosing to rely on an open teammate. He was chastised constantly for doing so. I always thought it was BS myself. Honestly, though, this is literally the 1st time I've ever heard someone go the other way with it.
I think it's funny that emotions always enter a potentially good debate. LBJ would be damned either way. Cleveland fans would be calling him a choker had he stayed. It easy to point fingers when you have no idea what that type of pressure feels like.
MJ took took years to learn how to win and the bulls have him some great players to win with. LDJ took time and other talents to win his as well. But that doesn't matter.
Cleveland fans are ok being selfish and wanting him to stay and just be good enough to make the playoffs. God forbid he wanted more out of his nba experience.
As for KB winning the MVP, good on him. He is one hell of player and had better stats then LBJ and may win the title. But something tells me he wins a title with another team. And when he leaves he will be hated as well, for no good reason.
This is just as emotional a post as the others.
Gone are the days of rooting for players on the team you root for.
Now its about rooting on players and be damned if they selfishly dont want to build from with in.
Anybody who thinks LBJ did not have a say in who was coming in to Cleveland is out of their minds...But perhaps, like Jordan before him, he is not as great at selecting from availability as his fans think he is.
Think back to the greats from your years prior...How many of them had to leave to chase the ring. That is a thing of the 90s, and it sucks for a league. Free Agency has ruined a lot of things in sports (helped in some ways too), but to think a team's fan base should throw a party for the way he handled that thing is ridiculous (it was out of his mind absurd).
Next time one wants the praise, let them take less money to bring in talent, before pointing the fingers.
The last great that I can think of is Dirk staying put and winning the title. But there surrounded him ith a few key pieces. I don't think LBJ could have a championship team in Cleveland because it's Cleveland. I'm sure he asked dwade and bosh, they didn't want to be there.
Gone are the days of Dr J lead 76rs or Larry bird dominating cents. Those teams were great DVD guys stayed put because the grass wasn't greener else where.
Today's players want to build their brand and win titles. That is the business of the NBA. It's our new reality. I just think people need to realize that.
Exactly, and as a fan of my team that doesnt mean I have to love the guy still when he ups and leaves the city.
Unless you lived here and rooted for the guy and saw what he did for a beaten city and many other avenues of everyday life its hard to judge the diehard fans for being upset.
So it was LBJ's job to pull the city along? I don't get that at all.
The last great that I can think of is Dirk staying put and winning the title. But there surrounded him ith a few key pieces. I don't think LBJ could have a championship team in Cleveland because it's Cleveland. I'm sure he asked dwade and bosh, they didn't want to be there.
Gone are the days of Dr J lead 76rs or Larry bird dominating cents. Those teams were great DVD guys stayed put because the grass wasn't greener else where.
Today's players want to build their brand and win titles. That is the business of the NBA. It's our new reality. I just think people need to realize that.
So it was LBJ's job to pull the city along? I don't get that at all.
It's an altruistic approach to what professional sports truly isn't about anymore, I guess.
So it was LBJ's job to pull the city along? I don't get that at all.