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Ongoing lessons and equipment changes etc...........

SaffaClint

SaffaClint

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Ok so I've been a member on here a while and have noticed something. A TON of players seem to have a lot of lessons and change equipment every other week in the hope of bettering themselves. That in itself isn't a bad thing but it leaves me wondering something..........
After all the lessons people take etc, why are there so few making decent gains and more to the point, why do so many seem unable to help themselves and then turn to the internet for help from unqualified people? What I mean is I just don't understand how hundreds if not thousands of dollars spent leaves a person almost no better off and totally unable to diagnose or fix flaws they may have. Is it because the coaching in general is flawed and leads to players being too dependant on their coach? It doesn't make sense to me at all and I can't work it out.
 
SaffaClint said:
Ok so I've been a member on here a while and have noticed something. A TON of players seem to have a lot of lessons and change equipment every other week in the hope of bettering themselves. That in itself isn't a bad thing but it leaves me wondering something..........
After all the lessons people take etc, why are there so few making decent gains and more to the point, why do so many seem unable to help themselves and then turn to the internet for help from unqualified people? What I mean is I just don't understand how hundreds if not thousands of dollars spent leaves a person almost no better off and totally unable to diagnose or fix flaws they may have. Is it because the coaching in general is flawed and leads to players being too dependant on their coach? It doesn't make sense to me at all and I can't work it out.
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I'm not sure as I am not in the category of lots of lessons and equipment changes, but I believe there are a number of people on here who are very qualified to help in many ways, from analysing a swing to equipment advice etc...
 
From my experience here, I would say there are a lot of people who are very good golfers. In many cases lessons and equipment more suited to them have helped them improve. Hard to generalize something like that, as we are all on different paths. Lessons don't help everyone in any sport.
 
Its a balance. I believe that you need to get a good foundation of how to hit the long, short and green shots from a PGA pro. Then you need to find out what works for you. YouTube is a great tool for observing other techniques and tips. Nothing beats time on the range seeing what modifications to the shots that YOU make, do for ball flight. I think a tune up once a year by the SAME PGA pro would be prudent to make sure bad habits have not crept into your shots.

As far as equipment... I will be fitted for a set of PING irons this summer and then be done with irons for many years.
 
I'm not a big fan of "internet advice" when it comes to swing issues. Everything is so subjective and we all are a little different swing wise plus it is pretty hard to offer advice having never seen the person swing a club. I'm a big believer in taking issues to a real live PGA Teaching Pro. The best way forward will always be help, live and in person and outside where shot results are real.

As far as equipment goes, I learned twenty years ago that you can't buy a better game, but through a proper fitting (with a qualified fitter) you can buy the equipment best for your swing and style. Technology wise, everything is at the limits more or less and while there may be some gain from year to year, most people would be better off sticking with what they have, but the big OEM marketing machines are doing a good job of keeping the new stuff flowing, which is good, because we need the OEM's.

I also learned a long time ago that is none of my business how others spend their money.
 
First of all, I think you lack perspective. That's not a dig either, but I think it's important to realize that for every guy like you who is blessed with exceptional golf ability (as evidenced by quitting the game and coming back to quickly reach scratch) there are probably 1000 that couldn't reach scratch no matter what they did.

I'd also say that I think you're incorrect on the idea that people aren't improving. Maybe it's because I've seen many if these people for 4+ years now, but a large number of people have made Big improvement in their games, many through instruction. It's not always a quick thing though. People have lives that prevent them from devoting hours and hours to the type of practice needed to really improve quickly.

That said, people come here (and to other forums) to ask questions. Golf leaves people wondering and pondering quite a bit by nature because it's such a difficult game. People have bad rounds, have a little downtime, and look to their peers for some common ground or advice.
 
Hawk said:
First of all, I think you lack perspective. That's not a dig either, but I think it's important to realize that for every guy like you who is blessed with exceptional golf ability (as evidenced by quitting the game and coming back to quickly reach scratch) there are probably 1000 that couldn't reach scratch no matter what they did.

I'd also say that I think you're incorrect on the idea that people aren't improving. Maybe it's because I've seen many if these people for 4+ years now, but a large number of people have made Big improvement in their games, many through instruction. It's not always a quick thing though. People have lives that prevent them from devoting hours and hours to the type of practice needed to really improve quickly.

That said, people come here (and to other forums) to ask questions. Golf leaves people wondering and pondering quite a bit by nature because it's such a difficult game. People have bad rounds, have a little downtime, and look to their peers for some common ground or advice.
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I'm a prime example of Hawk mentioning not having countless hours to get the swing-change in. I've been working on mine for around a year now... To hit a bucket or two a week isn't going to accomplish my goal quickly, for sure. My scores have gone up during this change as well. But, when a Tour Pro goes through swing changes, it takes them a season or two to work out the kinks, and they practice it 4-8 hours, five days per week!!!

No question people tinker with equipment. I did until my Grandaddy experience because I have ZERO access to a full bag fitting. Zero! So, with my knowledge, and what I see in my game, I've tried different shafts, club heads, etc. Taking what I know and have gleaned and applying it to my equipment. For some of us, what other choice is there? Now that I've been fit at Callaway, I'm not changing my clubs... Just my swing.

If it takes a Tour Pro two years... Sheesh. I'm in for a LONG haul!!!
 
It's the desire for immediate return. But this it that hoping the slice goes away. Lessons are not magic and don't do much without putting in the work. It's why dieting and working out is so difficult. When we don't see 15 pounds fall off the 1st week we are ready to try something else.
 
Because golf is hard.
 
I think you're a bit off base with many things in this post haha. Perhaps one should answer because we simply aren't as good as you? :(
 
I may agree on the club tinkering side but if that makes people happy and gives them confidence, I'm all for it. As far as improvement goes, I've seen some impressive leaps forward with some people's games in my short time here. When I first joined up last fall, I watched a lot of the MC videos and other vids and compared to what I see now being posted in the score thread, there is a ton of improvement happening. Maybe its the supportive group atmosphere that exists here that pushes people, maybe its something else, but there are a lot of people here happier with their games because this site exists. It has helped me, I know that for sure.
 
There's a few reasons. Many of the people taking lessons just don't have the time to actually lock in any changes and revert to what they've always done. That's most likely to me.

A lot of we lousy golfers of the world just don't have the ability. Just don't. I have trouble driving a nail without whacking my thumb, and lessons aren't magically going to make me hit a dime-sized spot with a 3.5' hammer.
You can tell me I'm coming over the top, or have a chicken wing, but it means nothing to me. Some of us can't keep track of where all our moving parts are. We are the non-athetes of the world. You can teach, and some of us may get a decent intellectual grasp of the swing, but repeating it again and again isn't gonna happen.

And equipment? I don't think too many people really think clubs will change their game all that much. Maybe incremental gains. Can't think anyone believes a set of irons will drop 10 shots.
 
Hawk said:
First of all, I think you lack perspective. That's not a dig either, but I think it's important to realize that for every guy like you who is blessed with exceptional golf ability (as evidenced by quitting the game and coming back to quickly reach scratch) there are probably 1000 that couldn't reach scratch no matter what they did.

I'd also say that I think you're incorrect on the idea that people aren't improving. Maybe it's because I've seen many if these people for 4+ years now, but a large number of people have made Big improvement in their games, many through instruction. It's not always a quick thing though. People have lives that prevent them from devoting hours and hours to the type of practice needed to really improve quickly.

That said, people come here (and to other forums) to ask questions. Golf leaves people wondering and pondering quite a bit by nature because it's such a difficult game. People have bad rounds, have a little downtime, and look to their peers for some common ground or advice.
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I'm not running down THP by the way and as for perspective, maybe that'w what I'm trying to gain from asking the question in the first place.
 
HoosierGolfer said:
I'm not a big fan of "internet advice" when it comes to swing issues. Everything is so subjective and we all are a little different swing wise plus it is pretty hard to offer advice having never seen the person swing a club. I'm a big believer in taking issues to a real live PGA Teaching Pro. The best way forward will always be help, live and in person and outside where shot results are real.

As far as equipment goes, I learned twenty years ago that you can't buy a better game, but through a proper fitting (with a qualified fitter) you can buy the equipment best for your swing and style. Technology wise, everything is at the limits more or less and while there may be some gain from year to year, most people would be better off sticking with what they have, but the big OEM marketing machines are doing a good job of keeping the new stuff flowing, which is good, because we need the OEM's.

I also learned a long time ago that is none of my business how others spend their money.
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I have zero interest in how people spend their money and never made any implication that I did. I'm simply amazed at how well the marketers of golf club manufacturers etc do their job, lol.
 
Evok said:
I think you're a bit off base with many things in this post haha. Perhaps one should answer because we simply aren't as good as you? :(
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I have never said "I'm better than anyone so listen to me". I could care less what a persons handicap is, so long as they're good fun to play with.
 
To the original questions, I think most get lessons as they have tried to learn on their own and did not see the results they would like. Much like we could probably change out the engine in our cars if we had the time, money and patience to figure it out on our own, but instead many choose to pay a professional.

As far as clubs, most people like shiny new things, some of us are silly enough to think it is the tool not the carpenter when it comes to this game (still happens to me even though I KNOW BETTER).
 
blugold said:
Because golf is hard.
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majBC said:
Keep telling yourself this and you will start to believe it.
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majBC said:
That's just an excuse.
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I think what "Blu" says is very true and not just an excuse nor something that is a matter of self belief. Along with a few other posts in this thread it pretty much sums it up. Golf is not easy and it also does not have to always become any easier just because one puts hard work and good efforts. When one is better at something and/or worked hard to become better at something it is very easy (by human nature) to take it for granted that anyone can do it if they just tried hard enough, gave good efforts and dedicated themselves the proper way or the same way they did.

Not just to "majBC" but to anyone and the OP.
Truth is the above statement still does not work for everyone and in fact very many people. People can learn a ton about the swing, about their own swing, about how to do things and what to do about it, and how best to do it, and understand a ton about it all and put in the efforts and dedication and quite frankly still just cant seem to do it on a consistent basis no matter what. May even grasp what they are doing wrong and why and still cant bring themselves to do it correctly for them. May even be able to tell what others are doing wrong and yet cant repeat it consistently enough for themselves. Just the way it is. Golf is hard. Not a cop out, not an excuse, not a self fed mindset minimizer. Just a reality. Those fortunate enough to run scratch and low or even mid caps are the lucky ones of very many thousands or millions. And they also may surround themselves with others of similar ability and that just further enhances the honest but misguided thought that anyone can do it if they just put in the time and proper efforts. But it's simply not the case. You are in a small percentile whether you know it or not. Golf is hard, very hard and many or even most people on contrary to what one may think cant do it well enough to ever get to such a place as even a mid cap and be part of an over all small percentile of all who play the game.
 
When I first came to THP I was interested in the equipment reviews because I thought I needed the latest and greatest to play well. After asking, and reading, question after question and the responses being "get lessons", I figured there might be something to it.

I didn't want to take lessons at first, thought they would be too expensive and I wouldn't see a return on my investment. I was wrong. I think I am making steady gains in my game, and while my instructor moved, leaving me guru-less for the next few months, the lessons I learned will get me through this season.

If I had not come to THP, I am not sure if I ever would have taken my game seriously enough to get lessons.
 
I am on the other side of the coin with your perception of the amount of lessons taken. I don't see a lot of lessons being taken based on the size of the active membership. People just don't believe in them and would rather get the quick fix or sponge off someone else's tips then pay to see a pro. And this is fine for a round or two but long term there is no acquired knowledge of the golf swing.

It's not always 'tuck the elbow' to reduce your slice or 'roll your wrist' to
hit a draw. These are the tips people read from their buddies and put in play the next day. Typically this one tip does more damage than good.

The equipment side is very true. People would rather buy a swing with the newest club. The market place is filled with failed experiments or folks wanting to gain funds to by the latest and greatest. Marketing does work and works well.
 
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