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What do you WANT or EXPECT out of a fitting?

Nippon Shafts
-CRW- said:
I expect an introduction, a warm-up, and then a base line with my 6 iron/7 iron or whatever they are set up to fit with. Then I expect to try a few different club models based of what I'm interested in (design, looks, etc), with various shafts selected from my baseline numbers. Then when I think I have what I need, I'd like to try the ideal set up with one stiffness level softer/harder than the ideal set up just to be safe. If doing a full bag fitting (or most of the bag), I'd split it up over two visits - maybe irons and wedges one day, then hybrids/woods/driver on another. I spent 4 hours at my last fitting and was really out of it by the end and will definitely split up fittings next time.

On the finished product I want to see the numbers - each clubs total weight, swing weight, loft, and lie - just to verify that I'm getting what I'm paying extra for.
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I agree with this. If I'm going to spend anywhere from $500 to $700 on new irons plus $ for the fitting, I want to go in with an open mind and a couple clubs I'd like to try. I expect the fitter to use their expertise in seeing what may fit my swing better. I know I have a lot of swing flaws. But, I will have lessons BEFORE I think about a new set. To me it makes no sense to have a very inconsistent swing. I'll spend my money on lessons first. Then, I hope that I have a swing that will be more consistent to have a better fitting.
 
Here's what I expect when i go to a fitting:

1 - A very robust shaft cart. That's great that there are 20 shaft options to pick from, but hardly useful when only 2-3 reflect my needs.

2 - Visual feedback - Whether it's a quality monitor indoors, or the open range with decent range balls, I want to see the ball flight.

3 - The numbers -- I know this is played a bit to heavily by some, but numbers are definitely important in my high spin game. They need to look good.

///The glass shattering moment in fitting came for me a year ago when a fitter tried to convince me that high spin = MUST play black tie X. When i spun it more than the others, his befuddled look made me realize that there are a LOT more dimensions to a good fitting.
 
Interesting Dan. You play golf on a higher level than I do, and obviously have more fittings compared to my one. Tell me, if it was your first one, what would you look for from a customer service standpoint? I mean, what should someone be looking for on their first fitting?

JM
 
i got fitted in oct of 2012 for callaway irons, the pro that did my fitting was very knowledgeable. he set me up with 1 1/4" longer stiff shaft and 2 degree up rite. sunday at the range i got a hold of the launch board and tape for the bottom of my club and low and behold i hit the first ball perfect, my 7 iron had a perfect marking on the tape. i could not have put a better swing on the club. i proved to myself that the clubs i have are the clubs that fit. now the trick is to put that same move on my clubs every time i swing them.....easier said than done ....lol
 
Would any of you fitting dignitaries have any advice on the best putters with sound fittings? I saw an interview that I think JB did with a very well spoken putter rep who seemed to know so many things about obtaining the absolute perfect fit putter.

im so needing a putter guru
 
Hmm, this thread has me rethinking my TMPL fitting for the #THPMC.
 
Parshooter36 said:
Hmm, this thread has me rethinking my TMPL fitting for the #THPMC.
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A fitting won't correct swing flaws. Just make something usable with your swing.
 
KPop said:
Would any of you fitting dignitaries have any advice on the best putters with sound fittings? I saw an interview that I think JB did with a very well spoken putter rep who seemed to know so many things about obtaining the absolute perfect fit putter.

im so needing a putter guru
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I would recommend an SPi fitting and lesson. I really enjoyed mine.
 
I felt that the fitting that I had was very useful for me as it went through the following

1. I was asked some questions about my game, typical misses, etc before even swinging a club
2. I was then shown the range of club heads and shafts that the fitter carried to ask what type of club head look appealed to me - asked me my budget and then explained which heads / shaft combinations would take me outside of my budget if I did decide on one of those
3. Warmed up with my own club
4. Worked through a number of different combinations of club head and shaft to narrow down what worked best for me
5. Once I had decided on the preferred club head we spent a little bit more time with some different shaft flex / length / weight combinations to get the best possible results

All of this was done on an outdoor range so that I could see the ball flight and dispersion but without any launch monitor numbers - personally I wasn't concerned with launch numbers as I felt it would just confuse matters for me. I was more than happy to go by how the club felt and the result I was seeing

There was no pressure towards any particular combination and I was just disappointed that other factors prevented me from being able to place an order for a set


I would therefore hope that any future fitting I was to go through would match the experience I had with my first above
 
I don't understand all the negative comments regarding expecting too much, or worrying too much about the numbers. I'm lucky enough to have a Club Champion in my area and typically once a year they offer 50% off their fittings. That came out to $175.00 for a full bag fitting which included 4 hours of their time and access to just about every current make/model of clubs and shafts.

I did not buy clubs when I went. It was only a few months into my golf journey. I told the fitter up front that I did not think that I would be purchasing anything right away and wanted to go to learn. I knew that I needed lessons but was currently not taking any because the last instructor I tried didn't work out. The fitter at Club Champion Houston completely understood and provided outstanding service. He devoted those 4 hours to me even when Charlie Epps (Angel Cabrera's Swing Coach) walked in to pick up some Stage 2 RBZ woods.

I'm 5'9 and floating around 240. I should be around 220, but still have a 34" waist. My first set of clubs were regular flex RBZ irons with stock 85 gram shafts. After warming up, I hit a 10-15 shot group with my 6 iron. He added some lead tape to increase the weight and swing weight and had me hit 10-15 more. My dispersion was cut in half. His recommendation was at least stiff shafts, and something much heavier than what I had like the DG S300's I'm using now.

We talked about my bad experience with lessons and he recommended me an instructor on my side of town that I followed up with. The instructor turned out to be a perfect match for me with tons of experience. Because I had plenty of work ahead of me he suggested buying used clubs now and maybe purchase a new set in a year or so when things started to be more consistent for me. He suggested 710 or 712 AP2's with DG S300 shafts. I don't know why he suggested AP2's over AP1's - maybe he knew it would be harder to find AP1's with heavy shafts. He did say I'd have no problem "growing into" the AP2's - I know, that's a dreaded statement here - but they've worked out well for me. When I'm doing what I'm supposed to the AP2's are amazing. I struggle with the thought that maybe I'd be shooting in the 80's now had I ordered custom AP1's with S300's or similar shafts, but I don't dwell on that when I'm out playing.

So I guess this was a long way to say that for me, the fitting made a huge difference in my game and the speed at which I'm improving.

I will without a doubt do a full bag fitting with Club Champion again when I'm ready to buy new clubs. I'm still working on/changing out used stuff to see what works/doesn't work for me so I don't expect that to happen until the end of this year or first of next year.

In the meantime, I need to find me an AP1 6 iron to hit occasionally to see if it is something I will be interested in trying during my next fitting.
 
Parshooter36 said:
Hmm, this thread has me rethinking my TMPL fitting for the #THPMC.
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I think the context of what we are trying to do for the Morgan Cup, build a bag of 14 clubs specifically to one manufacturer given a fairly broad range of options makes something like the TMPL or Callaway Performance Center even more fun. I am not expecting miracles when I head down to the CPC at the Annika Academy next week, but I do expect that I will be working with one of the premiere fitters for the brand I am being sponsored by. Even if 90% of the wood shafts are not a good fit for me, I expect that they will have more of the 10% that do available to try than my average available fitting cart. I expect that they will be a great resource to bounce bag composition ideas off of to hear manufacturer specific thoughts of advantages of one direction or the other.

I also expect that they won't look at me like I'm nuts when I tell them about the Morgan Cup and that yes, I am one of the participants. I know they won't find a miraculous cure that will make my swing look like Freddie Kong, but as long as they treat me with courtesy and respect that I deserve as a paying customer, and do the best they can with fitting help, I will be very happy with the experience.

My hope is that these destination fitting facilities, CPC, TMPL, Club Champion sorts, are going to try to do what I am paying them to do (within my own limitations) better than the guy who thinks he can sell me lessons as well.

I went a cheaper, more local route the last time, and while my experience was nowhere near the condescension that Johnny Mojo experienced, I didn't feel like the guy took me very seriously, and an hour was nowhere near enough time to get all that accomplished.
 
I too am a bit surprised that fittings are getting a little underscored here. I have been through two of them and found them quite helpful. As far as what I want, I want a fitter that is knowledgeable and is focused on guiding me to equipment that fits my swing and physical dimensions without turning into a used car salesman. I expect the same I suppose.

What I don't expect is that I'll get fit into clubs that will magically cure my swing flaws, nor am I aware of anyone who expects that going into one. But there are literally thousands of different combinations of clubs, shafts, heads, etc. that I am going to a fitting so those options are narrowed down to a few that are the best match for me. To me, that's a lot better than walking in to a Golf Galaxy, hitting a bunch of clubs for a few minutes a piece, then deciding I like one club over the others. I used to do that before I found THP and wasted way too much money in the process.

I guess I'm a little perplexed on occasion when I read things about equipment not really making much of a difference, or people putting too much emphasis on different shafts or clubs; I mean, I was always under the impression that there could be a huge difference in equipment, which is why there are multiple threads discussing the specific characteristics of each piece of equipment. I expect a fitting to recommend a few options for me that, well, fit me best. Everything in my bag except hybrids and FW's I was fit into and couldn't be happier.
 
My feeling would be that swing, then head, then shaft dictates launch conditions. Like I said, some people see greater variances between shafts than others.
 
What do you WANT or EXPECT out of a fitting?

The first time I got fit, after seeing a few swings, the fitter stopped me and asked what my plan was as far as getting back into golf and whether I was going to try to change my swing. He wanted to know if I was committed to becoming a better golfer and addressing my swing issues. When I told him that I was, he recommended waiting and not getting any new equipment until the swing changes took place.
 
Hawk said:
My feeling would be that swing, then head, then shaft dictates launch conditions. Like I said, some people see greater variances between shafts than others.
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Some would say you could throw ball in before shaft as well.
And of course swing must include stance, ball placement and grip.
Its why controlled environments are tougher and why I am thrilled that I have tried close to 500 shafts and can safely feel the way I do about my position. Then add in education and my feeling is pretty well cemented.
 
What do you WANT or EXPECT out of a fitting?

JB said:
Some would say you could throw ball in before shaft as well.
And of course swing must include stance, ball placement and grip.
Its why controlled environments are tougher and why I am thrilled that I have tried close to 500 shafts and can safely feel the way I do about my position. Then add in education and my feeling is pretty well cemented.
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Our short conversation on Saturday was very helpful JB. I feel like I am a better than average golfer and even I struggle at times putting too much faith in finding the perfect shaft. Feel is becoming more of my priority and that leads to comfort.
 
JB, what is your position on shafts? I may have missed it.

Also, how about fittings like with Hot Stix that occur outside? Should the expectation, or effectiveness, change when moving from the controlled environment of indoors to outside?
 
Philly Golf Guy said:
JB, what is your position on shafts? I may have missed it.

Also, how about fittings like with Hot Stix that occur outside? Should the expectation, or effectiveness, change when moving from the controlled environment of indoors to outside?
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Im not sure I have a position, although agree very much with what Hawk posted above.
I think too many golfers put too much stock into a shaft changing ball flight.
 
First and foremost I want an engaging fitter that wants to understand where I am at & not tell me I don't need to be fit because of my swing flaws. I don't want him/her to sell me the latest and greatest either. For me what I want out of a fitting is an understanding how my current or future equipment will work with my swing. If that means adjusting lie, length, shaft flex, etc. so be it. I want a set up that will help me maximize what I currently do well & minimize what I do incorrectly (forgiveness on mishits). I'm a believer that the right shaft and flex will help you get the desired ball flight you want, but the head itself will be the main cog in how you launch that ball in the air. I've seen where simple lie angle adjustments have helped players straighten out ball flight or a length adjustment helped with making better contact.

I'm at a place right now where the new graphite irons appeal to me to help with the wear and tear I'm starting to feel with my body. I am finding that after each round I am just a little more sore than I remember being. My iron fitting coming up I'm looking to get fit into some graphite shafts that not only feel good and will help with my joints etc., but also still provide that ball flight I'm used to seeing from my current set up. Sure I have new irons in mind that I want to try, but I also know those irons will only produce as well as my swing will allow. There is no magic pill, but a good fitting IMO can set up your bag to help you get the most out of your current abilities.
 
I've been thinking about this for a while because I want to go through a full fitting later this year. I haven't had a full fitting in 3 years, and I don't want to experiment as much with new clubs by trying to fit myself and guess on things. I'd prefer to go to a fitter and be confident in what the fitter tells me before I purchase those clubs.

In a perfect world, I'd be able to see ballflight outdoors and have launch monitor data. I think it's easier to do that with a driver as opposed to irons because the ball is teed up with a driver. Around here, most of the fittings are going to be indoors with a launch monitor, so it's not optimal, but it works well for most people. No matter where the location is, I want an accurate launch monitor (Trackman or Flightscope) to give me hard data instead of a fitter trying to guess based on looking at ballflight. I guess what I'm saying is that if you give me the option of indoors with launch monitor vs. outdoors without launch monitor, give me the launch monitor and the numbers that come with it. I realize I might be in the minority on this one, but I hit off of mats all the time at my driving range, so it's not an issue for me.

In terms of "chasing numbers", I think that's much more of an issue with a driver as opposed to irons because people are focusing on maximum distance instead of distance plus dispersion. I played with a really good player (ex-college player) last week that was fit for a driver earlier this year. He hit 30 balls with his old driver and 30 balls with his new driver during the fitting. He didn't gain much distance from the old driver to the new driver, but his average dispersion went from 25 yards with his old driver to 7 yards with the new driver, that was huge for him. FWIW, with the driver specifically, launch angle is much more important to get optimized than spin rate and the loft/design of the head is going to play much more of a role than shaft. With irons, I'd like to see consistent distance instead of getting fit for the iron that just gives me the most total distance but isn't as accurate as something else.

In terms of what I want from a fitter: someone that has access to multiple fitting charts and shaft models, as well as someone that can put some thought into their recommendations instead of just saying something like "you swing XX mph with your driver, you are a stiff flex." I know that some people have talked about not having a repeatable swing or having swing flaws. Even if that's the case, everyone should know what their "normal" swing is like and a good fitter will be able to optimize equipment for any swing. One other thing: I want the fitter to make me comfortable in that environment. I would imagine that most people are nervous coming into a fitting because they have invested their money to do the fitting and have put their trust in the fitter, and also are nervous because they want to be swinging well on that day. Having a fitter be a jerk to me (aka the Johnny Mojo experience) or not letting me relax by trying to rush through the fitting would be really disappointing to me.

I realize I'm rambling a bit, but it's something that I've been thinking about for a while. Good thread 6435.
 
JB said:
Im not sure I have a position, although agree very much with what Hawk posted above.
I think too many golfers put too much stock into a shaft changing ball flight.
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I thought the general perception was that the shaft was the "engine" of the club and all that, but again, maybe that's a myth. I guess I'm surprised that shafts really shouldn't make that much of a difference. Maybe it's in my head, but taking the SLDR as an example, my experience hitting that driver was night day between the Kai'li and the stock shaft.

But now I'm confused. Does shaft flex matter? Shaft weight? Admittedly I've been paying attention to these things now because I thought it was one of the better ways to find better fitting clubs, but should I not be?
 
JB said:
Some would say you could throw ball in before shaft as well.
And of course swing must include stance, ball placement and grip.
Its why controlled environments are tougher and why I am thrilled that I have tried close to 500 shafts and can safely feel the way I do about my position. Then add in education and my feeling is pretty well cemented.
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I respect your view, but I disagree on the controlled environment factor. What happens if you go to a fitting outdoors and the wind is blowing 20 mph right to left? Maybe that's not what you were talking about, but in a situation like that, it probably wouldn't work out well for me because I'd be trying to adjust my swing to fight the wind and not making the normal swing. Just my opinion, of course.
 
Philly Golf Guy said:
I thought the general perception was that the shaft was the "engine" of the club and all that, but again, maybe that's a myth. I guess I'm surprised that shafts really shouldn't make that much of a difference. Maybe it's in my head, but taking the SLDR as an example, my experience hitting that driver was night day between the Kai'li and the stock shaft.

But now I'm confused. Does shaft flex matter? Shaft weight? Admittedly I've been paying attention to these things now because I thought it was one of the better ways to find better fitting clubs, but should I not be?
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I didn't say things like that don't matter. In fact I think I said the opposite. I said that if you have a general profile that works, having access to 10 different versions of the (sort of) same thing isn't going to make a huge difference in the same head. Not for the money it may cost if you're looking at high dollar items and hundreds of rpms of spin at least imo. When I see huge differences in output with similar setups, which we see occasionally, it just doesn't add up. Makes me think inconsistency or coincidence is the primary cause rather than a true equipment-based difference.
 
Hawk said:
I didn't say things like that don't matter. In fact I think I said the opposite. I said that if you have a general profile that works, having access to 10 different versions of the (sort of) same thing isn't going to make a huge difference in the same head. Not for the money it may cost if you're looking at high dollar items and hundreds of rpms of spin at least imo. When I see huge differences in output with similar setups, which we see occasionally, it just doesn't add up. Makes me think inconsistency or coincidence is the primary cause rather than a true equipment-based difference.
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Thanks. And believe me, I'm not trying to take a position on this, just trying to learn since I am pretty clueless on a lot of this stuff. For example, what exactly is a profile?
 
All I want out of a fitting is confidence. Confidence in what the fitter is saying, in the knowledge that all options have been explored, all concerns have been addressed, and and all my questions (and I usually have a lot) have been answered in a reasonable way.

If these thing all happen, then ill consider the fitting a success.
 
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