This is legit.
If you've ever been to an NBA game and were there early for shoot around and warm ups, they don't miss. Even the big men make jump shot after jump shot.
Playing a pro under pro-like conditions - does handicap hold up?
This is legit.
If you've ever been to an NBA game and were there early for shoot around and warm ups, they don't miss. Even the big men make jump shot after jump shot.
deuce
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Actually, the handicap system is supposed to level the playing field between two individuals, playing golf, on the same course. It's not about comparing, it's about the HDCP system supposedly making a match between two individuals fair. Now, the better golfer will typically win even adjusting scores based on HDCP, but the system is supposed to give the worse golfer a fighting chance.
And honestly, I think an amateur has a better chance of beating a pro at a skills contest than an amateur golfer has of beating a pro in a round of golf.
Seeming that the best NBA shooters of ALL TIME are barely at 40% from three point range, your analogy just doesn't work. If I hit 18/20, I love my chances all day!
PS - the vast majority of basketball players only shoot with one hand. The second truly isn't needed but a huge help. Just sayin
On Dan's home course, with the tour pro not having any prep time, I think Dan could get 7 strokes and be competitive.
The key is the amount of prep time that tour pros get. Those guys didn't just walk onto Pinehurst on Thursday and start. Now, the second time out, that tour pro would probably take Dan.
The key is the amount of prep time that tour pros get. Those guys didn't just walk onto Pinehurst on Thursday and start. Now, the second time out, that tour pro would probably take Dan.
Tadashi70
Well-known member
Let's put it like this...if you cant beat a good amateur getting your shots then you have not shot at beating a run of the mill pro with your shots. Do I think Dan could give it go, hell yeah but in the end I think he gets topped. There is skill pros possess that 95% of everyday golfers don't. They know how to score and that is big advantage, mentally.
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Not that surprising. The green conditions these guys face week in and week out are set up to roll fast and with a true roll. It's easier to make putts on greens like that because you know if you put a good roll on it, it's going to roll over its intended target. They might have some really hard pin placements to deal with but you won't see them have the ball go offline because of a surface imperfection anywhere near as often as we see on most courses we play.
I think the way its set up & how the math works out the higher-handicapper would come out ahead roughly 25% of the time.
My favorite part was how his opening drive ended up in a pile of sticks on the fairway
Definitely sounds like an average muni course
Tadashi70
Well-known member
The muni he was playing birthed guys like Jim Thorpe and Calvin Pete. The games played at this course are stuff of legends. Lots of hustlers playing this course with clubs from the 80s
My favorite part was how his opening drive ended up in a pile of sticks on the fairway
Definitely sounds like an average muni course
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I would guess sort of like the old saying "on a given day" anything is possible. But I think that is basically the same as any handicap round. The one getting strokes still needs to be at his best and the one giving strokes needs to be less than his best in order for the lessor player to win. To me I think that's how the HC system is meant as it gives a fighting chance but not an outright equal chance and I think that is the way it should be. What I mean is If both players play to an average relative round the lessor player would not and should not win imo. I don't think it would be fair for him to win unless he played better relatively than the one giving strokes does. With both playing an average round it only stands to reason the "better player" (who is giving strokes) should win it. Just wouldn't be fair any other way imo.
With that said I go back to my opening statement "on a given day" anything is possible. But lets not forget another factor of one performing better under pressure. Not only will a tour pro handle pressure better but its the amateur that's probably the only one who would be feeling any of it in this scenario. That in itself can add some strokes especially close around the greens and putting. I know I feel pressure just trying to sink a lousy 7 footer for a par or bird vs that same 7 footer for bogey. Cant imagine having to sink one while beating a pro is on the line. Oooofa.
With that said I go back to my opening statement "on a given day" anything is possible. But lets not forget another factor of one performing better under pressure. Not only will a tour pro handle pressure better but its the amateur that's probably the only one who would be feeling any of it in this scenario. That in itself can add some strokes especially close around the greens and putting. I know I feel pressure just trying to sink a lousy 7 footer for a par or bird vs that same 7 footer for bogey. Cant imagine having to sink one while beating a pro is on the line. Oooofa.
grathan
Member
It says in the latest Golf Digest that handicap rewards the better golfer a stroke for every 6 strokes of difference.
It sounds about right because I have shot 35-37 consistently and my handicap is 29.7
It sounds about right because I have shot 35-37 consistently and my handicap is 29.7
I think the book "Every Shot Counts" talked about a similar subject.
It talks about how an 18 hcp playing a 0 hcp is at a disadvantage. A 0 is going to shoot his hcp more often than an 18 is. The same is probably true of a 0 playing a +4. Remember, the +4 is determined based on the average of that players best 10 rounds out of his last 20. There could be some really low numbers in there mixed in with some -2s and -3s.
I am fortunate enough to play with a lot of 2 - 0 hcpers. They can go from shooting 69 to 79 any given day. The 79s rarely show up, but they are on there. I would imagine a +hcp is going to have a narrower gap.
It talks about how an 18 hcp playing a 0 hcp is at a disadvantage. A 0 is going to shoot his hcp more often than an 18 is. The same is probably true of a 0 playing a +4. Remember, the +4 is determined based on the average of that players best 10 rounds out of his last 20. There could be some really low numbers in there mixed in with some -2s and -3s.
I am fortunate enough to play with a lot of 2 - 0 hcpers. They can go from shooting 69 to 79 any given day. The 79s rarely show up, but they are on there. I would imagine a +hcp is going to have a narrower gap.
An interesting fact is that on Mickelson's HDCP his low was a 65 and high was a 79. For Bubba it is a low of 64 (shot twice) and a 74 as the high.
Martsy
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wow that's it? I am about to join a course that is rated 75.4/152 and 7258 yards from the tips. Does that mean if I can break 100 there, i could do it at Pinehurst? In theory I think it does..but having played the course (not from the tips, but close), i can say unequivocally not. The greens not even close...which is where i think the majority of us would lose the most strokes. Which then makes me wonder...how do they come up with these ratings? Maybe there's just a lot of bad local golfers by me?
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I think for stroke play I've got an advantage playing an 18, but it depends on why they are an 18. my dad is a 16 and just plays tees too long. on any given day he can par or birdie most holes, he just blows up a few times per 18.
matchplay is a totally different story for high caps playing low caps and being able to basically bogey out
Vegan702
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Rating is for how the course plays normally I believe. No way Pinehurst keeps those greens running 12+ year round. Our head greens keeper here told me once for every .5 jump in stimp reading it slows play about 15min per foursome. So they try and keep it reasonable to keep play moving. Ours run around 9.5-10, couldn't imagine how long it would take to play if they were 12.wow that's it? I am about to join a course that is rated 75.4/152 and 7258 yards from the tips. Does that mean if I can break 100 there, i could do it at Pinehurst? In theory I think it does..but having played the course (not from the tips, but close), i can say unequivocally not. The greens not even close...which is where i think the majority of us would lose the most strokes. Which then makes me wonder...how do they come up with these ratings? Maybe there's just a lot of bad local golfers by me?
I think that the handicap system kind of falls apart with handicaps above 20 and below scratch. I can't quite put my finger on it but it just doesn't quite work the way it should.
Match play is an entire different animal that can really stress the player giving strokes away and favor the higher cap, but only to a certain point. A 24 or higher handicap is going to have too many blow up holes to have a real chance in a match play even when playing against a single digit.
Match play is an entire different animal that can really stress the player giving strokes away and favor the higher cap, but only to a certain point. A 24 or higher handicap is going to have too many blow up holes to have a real chance in a match play even when playing against a single digit.
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I wonder if that is sort of an unwritten yet educated assumption on how it just so happens to work out or if an actual fact and somehow worked into the formula. But either way I think something along those lines is only fair. As I mentioned, if both players play to an average round (relatively) then I feel the better player should win. After all he is better.
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I think it also depends how much "feast or famine" type of golf the higher capper plays. Some higher cappers may shoot consistently and moderately poorly hole to hole. But there are quite a number who can play well and yet blow-up terribly in between leaving a mix of enough pretty good holes mixed with some very bad ones. Match play can certainly help this type of high cap player more than the other one.
golfinFF
Active member
Not a chance in the world would I have a chance from the same tees as them.
Me moving back doesn't give me enough strokes and neither would them coming up. Them moving forward would just put lower high lofted and more accurate clubs in their hands.
I can't consistently hit and hold greens with a 3wd or 2hybo and that would kill me moving back to their yardage.
Me moving back doesn't give me enough strokes and neither would them coming up. Them moving forward would just put lower high lofted and more accurate clubs in their hands.
I can't consistently hit and hold greens with a 3wd or 2hybo and that would kill me moving back to their yardage.
deuce
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This is my game recently. I can par two to three, bogey six to eight, double five or six and then have the rails fall off on two to four holes. If I look at the card they are usually on the toughest holes, so I really need to manage my game better. If I can figure those out, I should be ok.
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Pkielwa
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Playing a pro under pro-like conditions - does handicap hold up?
My 10 hdcp has in it rounds at 79 and rounds of 93... Never know which one shows up... Add the pressure I'd feel that the Pro wouldn't, never happening!!!
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My 10 hdcp has in it rounds at 79 and rounds of 93... Never know which one shows up... Add the pressure I'd feel that the Pro wouldn't, never happening!!!
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Playing a pro under pro-like conditions - does handicap hold up?
Winner winner chicken dinner
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Winner winner chicken dinner
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