We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Is technology taking away creativity?

Trout Bum said:
I agree with them to a certain extent but I look at it a little differently. We've never had this much information available to us to use for fitting, instruction, and to a certain degree you can buy clubs now that go straighter with selective distances and lofts. The art of the shot is still there amongst some of us that still carry that torch and an example would be me hitting a low 20 yd cut around a tree and my son going over it, I don't ask him how he did that but he asks me how I hit that shot and I teach him, hopefully someone will see him hit that shot and ask him how he did it.

Over the past year or so I've seen the majority become the minority in the game and I've seen people get so caught up in data that they have become information islands that eventually become uninhabited and thought of as the minutia militia.

It has evolved yes, but it's still tough as hell at times and even though tech has come a long ways, a crappy shot is still a crappy shot at the end of the day and I don't see high cap players play better because they hit the ball farther in the woods lol. Better players are better because of this development in technology, I know it's helped me and I don't think it has taken away anything from my creativity.
Click to expand...
Good stuff trout
 
I think there is still room for creativity, however I also think that the modern ball, coupled with driver adjustibility has turned many golf courses into drive/low iron situations. I read about golfers, even on this forum, with handicaps in the 20's and 30's who bomb the ball 275+ yards. Maybe not straight, but it probably leaves a wedge or low iron for the second shot. However, many of us still get the opportunity to attempt a fade or draw out of the rough, or punch a mid iron under a branch to reach the green or try and launch a high shot into a protected green, etc... Creativity is still alive I think.
 
Its the course that puts the creativity in the game. Too many courses now days count on forced carries and green complexes that demand perfect shots tot he pin positions to score. The examples that come to mind are:

-Augusta National. It used to be about places you could not hit a miss to and be able to recover. Now its about overpowering the golf course on most holes and managing misses on a few holes. When you can hit high wedges to the greens you can stop the ball anywhere on the greens which means if you can smash it like Buba off the tee and hit wedges into the greens you can win.

-Harbourtown - You can't just grip it and rip it. Trees are hard to navigate your way through and its tight. Guys need some shot making skill to win here because you will end up in trouble and getting out of trouble is not straightforward or easy because you can't always get the ball up in the air and that means you need to be creative to get the ball out of trouble.
 
I think technology in terms of equipment makes me more inclined to be creative. Knowing I have a good chance to produce a functional shot makes me more likely to try a shot I wouldn't try otherwise. If I were playing irons from a couple generations ago, I'd be so much more worried about just making contact and getting the ball in the air, I wouldn't give a thought to the idea of hitting anything outside my standard shot shape.

Modern tech opens up the door of creativity to far more players to play better and more fun golf. And that doesn't just apply to hitting the ball straight, imo.
 
I think it has to a certain extent, especially among the pros, but also among amateurs as well. It doesn't make the game super easy by any means, but it does allow for being able to pull of shots that were typically not available to the average golfer 20 or 30 years ago. I know for myself that if I play a local course with my old gear I have to play a different game. No bombing it over the tress that (used to) guard the dogleg like I can with my new driver. I love the new gear, and numbers, as much as the next person, but sometimes miss being absolutely thrilled with a 250 -260 drive in the fairway.

As far as pros go, it's pretty much just a power game now. As much as I admire Jack, I'm pretty sure bomb and gouge started with him, and is now the norm on tour. Someone, don't remember who, did a statistical analysis of whether it was better to have distance or accuracy and distance won out iirc.
 
Paladin said:
I think technology in terms of equipment makes me more inclined to be creative. Knowing I have a good chance to produce a functional shot makes me more likely to try a shot I wouldn't try otherwise. If I were playing irons from a couple generations ago, I'd be so much more worried about just making contact and getting the ball in the air, I wouldn't give a thought to the idea of hitting anything outside my standard shot shape.

Modern tech opens up the door of creativity to far more players to play better and more fun golf. And that doesn't just apply to hitting the ball straight, imo.
Click to expand...


Imo, that is all very well said and I would agree.
I would add (in addition to the clubs) the same holds true for the shot analysis equipment which was mentioned in the op. But first i would say I think that stuff can sometimes hurt as too many can too often get caught up chasing those numbers and the fact that no one is ever perfect only results in one addicting themselves to that chase which most of us can never win. With that point aside I think its pretty awesome that one (via tech) can know just what this club is doing through impact. If one is careful about the mentioned "chasing perfect numbers" scenario and not get "too caught up" in it many flaws can be repaired or at least better understood. Then the better one becomes at the game , and the more imo creative he then can be via those same tech tools.

So I think it too (the tech) can open doors for creativity and actually does. I think its all just a matter of knowing how far to take the numbers and keeping that depth relative to ones overall ability. And then adjusting it accordingly as the ability gets better. Imo its the person that allows the tech to hurt creativity and not the tech itself. It's all about knowing what to do with it and how to treat it imo. The old cliché "its not the arrow, its the indian" still applies in every way. The arrow in this case is not just the club tech but also is the computer tech and both of them can work to add more creativity options. In the end its always about the person using them which determines the success or failure towards that creativity. But heck, what do I know? I'll just jump for joy if/when my HC ever falls and stays below 16. I would love to create that :)
 
I do find it a little silly that far and straight is "not creative" but spinning the ball left and right is somehow better or prettier.

I still believe that too many amateurs view working the ball as a necessity. Tour pros are a different story. I also believe that lumping the tour into the same game as amateurs is silly. They are not playing the same game.


The creativity isn't in shot shaping. It's in the instructors who are using all of the available teaching methods to get amateurs to enjoy the game more and shoot lower scores.
 
blugold said:
I do find it a little silly that far and straight is "not creative" but spinning the ball left and right is somehow better or prettier.

I still believe that too many amateurs view working the ball as a necessity. Tour pros are a different story. I also believe that lumping the tour into the same game as amateurs is silly. They are not playing the same game.


The creativity isn't in shot shaping. It's in the instructors who are using all of the available teaching methods to get amateurs to enjoy the game more and shoot lower scores.
Click to expand...
Creativity is most def about creating shots. Hitting a low spinner or a mid flight mid iron or a sawed off 3w for position are needed in a round.

Is working the ball needed, in my opinion, yes. How often do you play from.the dead center of the fairway? Almost never and unless you play on treeless course, you don't have a straight shot at the pin.

Is working the ball always needed, heck no. But it's needed more than it isnt.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Creativity is most def about creating shots. Hitting a low spinner or a mid flight mid iron or a sawed off 3w for position are needed in a round.

Is working the ball needed, in my opinion, yes. How often do you play from.the dead center of the fairway? Almost never and unless you play on treeless course, you don't have a straight shot at the pin.

Is working the ball always needed, heck no. But it's needed more than it isnt.
Click to expand...
It isn't needed as much as the -10 indexes on the internet say it is.
 
I think working the golf ball is one of the ULTIMATE types of creativity in golf. I love it, now, I don't personally put much emphasis or need on it in my game other than for testing, but it is absolutely a form of creativity and a real part of MANY peoples games. Including many THP'ers I've had the benefit of playing with, like my Panda.
 
I can see technology taking away creativity, but it doesn't have to unless you let it. I think people just get too reliant on the technology and don't try more creative things when they could utilize the tech to still be creative but also more effective.
 
And people don't know the true art of programming computers either. Back in my day we used punch cards, and if you dropped your stack on the floor you were ******. Half of the art was getting from your station to the compiler without dropping the deck. And then hoping it worked. Yeah, FORTRAN programming. That was the stuff.

And back in my day I walked 10 miles to school in snow up to my neck.

Jack? Bombing it? Yeah fine, but Arnie could spank it quite a ways over 300 yds, too. And he smoked. Imagine what those guys could do with today's gear.
 
blugold said:
It isn't needed as much as the -10 indexes on the internet say it is.
Click to expand...


I think it's easy to seperate who can do it and who can't Joe, anyone who's shot a subpar round knows when and how to use it.

Sometimes it's hard to tell if you're trolling or just talking smack because it's the internet but there's really no need to criticize people all the time for doing things for their own reasons, it's just not needed anymore in this day and age.
 
Trout Bum said:
I think it's easy to seperate who can do it and who can't Joe, anyone who's shot a subpar round knows when and how to use it.

Sometimes it's hard to tell if you're trolling or just talking smack because it's the internet but there's really no need to criticize people all the time for doing things for their own reasons, it's just not needed anymore in this day and age.
Click to expand...

I'm not trolling or talking smack. I'm having an opinion in a discussion thread. I'm not sure I ever criticized anybody here for saying working the ball is a necessity. I said for many mid handicap amateurs, working the ball isn't that important. That's my opinion. I don't know why it's a problem to share that.
 
blugold said:
I'm not trolling or talking smack. I'm having an opinion in a discussion thread. I'm not sure I ever criticized anybody here for saying working the ball is a necessity. I said for many mid handicap amateurs, working the ball isn't that important. That's my opinion. I don't know why it's a problem to share that.
Click to expand...

I remember a conversation we had in Florida about you enjoying getting people riled up because you said it was so easy and I'll leave it at that.

I won't clutter a great thread anymore with trash.
 
Trout Bum said:
I remember a conversation we had in Florida about you enjoying getting people riled up because you said it was so easy and I'll leave it at that.

I won't clutter a great thread anymore with trash.
Click to expand...
Yup. But I'm not trying to rile anybody up.

I fully believe that if a player can't break 85, being able to hit high fades, low hooks, etc. Really shouldnt be their prime objective. If their prime objective is to shoot low. If their objective is to play hero golf, which is also fine, work the ball all over the place.

Maybe the better players here, you included, who have broken par can have some input. Have you always tried working the ball or was it a skill that you worked on to get to scratch.
 
Being able to work the ball is part of what I consider creativity as well as being able to flight it higher or lower based on what is needed. I don't think a persons hdcp or skill level should determine whether that should be trying to work the ball. Granted working on a repeatable swing and honing the short game should be what higher hdcps should be working on, but also learning to be able to hit different shots isn't a bad thing to add to the arsenal.

I personally would like to have a fade or draw shot in my bag if I needed it, but my goal is to hone my swing and mechanics so that I'm consistently in the low 80s or in the 70s and hope to add the knowledge of how to pull off these shots to help me improve my game.
 
blugold said:
Yup. But I'm not trying to rile anybody up.

I fully believe that if a player can't break 85, being able to hit high fades, low hooks, etc. Really shouldnt be their prime objective. If their prime objective is to shoot low. If their objective is to play hero golf, which is also fine, work the ball all over the place.

Maybe the better players here, you included, who have broken par can have some input. Have you always tried working the ball or was it a skill that you worked on to get to scratch.
Click to expand...
I think some of that really is course dependent. If you play flatter, wide open courses then straight shots might be all you need to effectively shoot a decent score. If you play narrow, tree lined, undulating courses where you rarely get a level lie, then knowing how to work a ball or knowing how the ball will react to that lie (which to me is part of creativity) can become an important part of breaking 90.
 
Playing in the forest and where it's windy for 2/3 of the season, I've learned that being able to control your golf ball low vs high is very, very important. And it's not like it's all that hard or mystical. One shot that I use to have that was invaluable was a low running fade. That shot got me out of trouble more than I deserved. It's gone though now for the most part. Now, just low and maybe a touch of hook.
 
Hawk said:
Playing in the forest and where it's windy for 2/3 of the season, I've learned that being able to control your golf ball low vs high is very, very important. And it's not like it's all that hard or mystical. One shot that I use to have that was invaluable was a low running fade. That shot got me out of trouble more than I deserved. It's gone though now for the most part. Now, just low and maybe a touch of hook.
Click to expand...

I love the low hook. Its my escape go to.
 
Jman said:
I love the low hook. Its my escape go to.
Click to expand...

I wish I had both. I can pull off the fade on the range with about 10 swings, but on the course it's more difficult.

For as much as I hate a certain course here (narrow as hell and all big, mature tree), it taught me very early on how to hit it low and it's benefitted me.
 
Hawk said:
I wish I had both. I can pull off the fade on the range with about 10 swings, but on the course it's more difficult.

For as much as I hate a certain course here (narrow as hell and all big, mature tree), it taught me very early on how to hit it low and it's benefitted me.
Click to expand...
That's me in the Oklahoma wind, stupid gusts made it mandatory early that I learn to play it back and knock it down or sit it forward and just ride that wind. Its a good thing for me.
 
My perspective comes from the fact my home course is unique - it is a teaching center with maybe 15-20 outdoor Trackman bays that are used for giving lessons and doing club fittings. I'm in those bays a decent amount and overhear others getting lessons, too.

I don't think the the average amateur ascends to a level where creativity is fundamentally necessary, or at least a primary objective. Trackman technology isn't killing creativity, it's a just a tool that allows instructors to stay engaged in different ways on the basics with their students. It's a crawl before you can run thing.

Beyond Trackman, we could look to balls which generally are harder to work than they used to be and clubs which have unprecedented forgiveness. Those technologies probably work against creativity because everyone is trying to build gear which helps us hackers hit it straighter and higher (and that's a good thing).
 
Tech hasn't hurt creativity, Imo it has "allowed" for less creativity than before but that's only the choice of the person because it also allows for being more creative than before.

creativity imo is really everything we do with our golf and not just working the ball left and right. Most people who play golf aren't good enough to intentionally work it left&right much anyway and also have great success doing it. But so many other things are also creative and generally speaking any managing decisions we make imo are all part of our creativity. Trying to keep it low (from wind) is just one other. How about simply deciding which club to tee off with based on hole lay-out and conditions? That's creativity too. How about deciding which side of the fairway (or sometimes even rough) of the hole we want to aim for from the tee for purposes of best chance second (and/or approach) shots? That's also creativity. Deciding what club to use and what route to take out from a less than desirable (and/or trouble) scenario after a mishit is also creativity. What part of the green (shot shape aside) we decide to aim for is creativity. Not even to mention the creative decisions we make near and around the greens. Deciding on chipping vs pitching the ball on, how much roll, how much air time, roller, bouncer, etc, etc and which clubs to use to do it.

"ALL" of that game managing stuff is imo creativity. Heck, even putting is creativity. Putting through slope vs not is creative. The (club and computer) tech has made the game a little easier but it never imo took away its creativity. I think that's two different things. In fact one can argue that because of the tech one now has more creative options especially as one improves at the game.

The average weekend hacker is (now vs years ago) generally hitting further and doing so with more forgiveness. He can also (via the numbers) better understand what is happening. That all makes the game a little easier and the logic might (on the surface) appear as though to say you now don't have to be as creative. But imo the very same tech has also (along with making it a little easier) given us a little more creative options.

With generally longer and more forgiving equipment (club tech wise) and combined with better understanding (computer tech wise) one "now may have some" decisions or options he didn't have in the past. That's actually adding creativity, not taking it away. It all imo can add up to one being as little or as most creative as one wants. Tech imo has actually opened the door from both ends. It allows us to be less creative by making things a little easier but that doesn't mean it took away creativity at all because it also allows one to get as creative as he wants. It simply gives us a wider range for being both less and also more creative. From there its a matter of ability and choice.
 
Last edited:
blugold said:
The creativity isn't in shot shaping. It's in the instructors who are using all of the available teaching methods to get amateurs to enjoy the game more and shoot lower scores.
Click to expand...

This view may be unpopular, but personally, I don't think teaching technology has had a measurable impact on improving amateur golf swings. It may have given them a different way to look at their golf swing, but when the pro points at a Trackman number or draws a line on the video screen and says "You're not coming enough from the inside," it's really no different than 30 years ago when the scruffy old pro watched their swing/ball flight and said "You're not coming enough from the inside."

The big challenge is still figuring out how to get the player to feel what it feels like to come from the inside and repeat it consistently. Handicaps are not going down. People get on Trackman every week with a pro and still repeat the same OTT numbers they had the previous week. Why? Because swing changes are hard. Always have been, always will be.

That's not to say that I think any of this technology is bad in and of itself. It's all a tool. But it won't help a bad teacher become a good one and a good teacher will be a good teacher whether he or she is using technology or not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top