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Seeing Technology - Is It Important

SuperStroke
The Wilson C200 irons got me thinking about this a lot, as well as PXG's 0311 irons...both boast pretty visible technology in irons, though the PXG's screws don't influence the top line the way GENFLX does in the C200 irons.

I realized I love visible technology in drivers. I'm all for weights and bells and whistles and aero bits on the crown and maybe even a fin on the hosel. But when it comes to irons, I haven't found an iron that suits my eye as well as my current gamers, which definitely keep their technology in a very tidy package.
 
Man that's a good question. I don't need it to be visual for the most part and personally for me visually less is more. Where I prefer to see the tech is in the results like consistency and trajectory
 
To me a good example of the 'fine line' is the Cobra KING.

Unless there's something for me to tinker with inside, why do I need to remove that spaceport and look inside? When I see that, I wind up asking myself how much less the club would have cost without it. Seems the same design characteristics could have been achieved without it at lower cost.
 
The less I can see, the better. Cleaner lines and colors is always my preferences. I wish most GI iron manufacturer's would de-emphasize badges, inserts and the like.
 
JB said:
Is seeing technology something that must be seen to the eye for you to understand it or crave it? Does it resonate with the average golfer more than not?
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I think it can influence sales for the positive, but performance will be the final indicator for the well versed golfer. I assume Cobra thinks it can drive sales given their inclusion of a spaceport in the middle of the sole of their King LTD driver. It won't necessarily influence my purchases, but they can often very cool to look at and can indeed help the aesthetics of the club.
 
I might be in the minority here, but visible tech is cool, unless I can see it at address. For driver, paint it black with little to no graphics and keep thr tech on the bottom if you must. It seems every driver etches the text near the tech... literally spelling it out for the consumer. I remember Canadan popping the cap off sole of the King driver and they had even gone through the effort of this etching and transparency on the inside. This is fine on drivers. For irons, make it sleek, sexy, and modernish with a nod to the traditional and you've got me. Being loaded with tech and forgiving is a must, but my ego would prefer it not to look like a suped up shovel. This blend is partly why I like the cf16s so much... sorry for the shameless plug. Random thought: I feel cobra upped their game on iron styling this year (compared to biocell/flyz)
 
I never thought I had a strong opinion on this topic until I looked down at a C200. Being able to see that technology and have this feeling that I'm going to crush the shot gave me more confidence than what I was gaming at the time. So I would say yes, seeing the tech is important to me
 
As long as it doesn't bother me I don't mind it, but I also don't crave it either. I gamed RSi2's that have face slot and speed slots on the sole, I have hit the Wilson C200's...neither bothered me visually. I could game either no problem, but I don't specifically seek out visual tech.
 
I don't need to see it. Is rather see any tech in improved performance
 
In my opinion "visible technology" is of great value to the OEM's because it enables them to tout some purported new "breakthrough technology" in their marketing campaigns. (A new "release" of technology as some people here like to put it.) In reality, that "new technology" may have zero, (or very minimal) effect on the actual club's performance in the hands of most users, as compared to a similar club lacking that "visible technology" feature.

To say it another way, marketing gimmicks exist, and consumers are often seduced by them. People often talk about the "honeymoon period" with new clubs, which is usually just the "placebo" effect, (i.e what you believe to be true at the outset, before reality kicks in).

I think true technology breakthroughs are actually quite rare these days despite what the OEM''s would have you believe. As we all know, every club must adhere to the same strict standard as to what constitutes a conforming golf club under USGA and R&A rules. While those rules certainly don't prevent improvements to clubs, they do place real limits on what you can actually do with technology to improve club performance.

When you compare today's clubs with clubs of 20 years ago, clearly the most obvious change is driver size and adjustable features, neither of which is an automatic formula for distance or better overall performance. (A case can be made that more size = more forgiveness, due to improved MOI, but some would also argue that a larger 460cc head is harder to square at impact, suggesting less forgiveness)

Clearly, changes to Fairway clubs, Irons, Wedges, Putters, etc.are far less obvious and some will argue little has changed. Certainly a forged players blade will look and play much the same today as 20 years ago. Perimeter weighted cavity back irons are certainly nothing new either, so one has every right to question if any significant game changing improvements have actually been made over the last 20 years.. The larger SGI irons are to irons what 460cc is for drivers, so some improved MOI I suppose. Beyond that, today's lofts tend to be stronger, and the shafts longer, but those changes CAN be made to older clubheads too. Those are definitenly NOT examples of new technology.

It appears OEM's have been more challenged to provide "visible technology" with irons as compared to Drivers. However, recently with "speed slots" in the soles, and the new "face slots" seen on the TM RSI/PSI irons, OEM's are finding ways to use visible technology on irons as well. Does it work???...Well it depends on who you ask, but it is safe to say in an industry that is more competitive than ever, it is a quite necessary to provide at least the "illusion" of better performance, whether that be real or imagined by the user. I think it is safe bet that there will be more emphasis on "visible technology" in the future, not less, so buyer beware....you will be challenged even more to differentiate the "gimmicks" from new club technology that might actually provide some perceivable benefit.

Final point...So much marketing emphasis is placed on clubheads, that we often overlook more subtle performance enhancements in this game, (i.e. the modern golf ball, and significant improvements to graphite and steel shaft technology). Certainly a good fitting is the key to making the most of ANY new club purchase, but all the while focus first and foremost on building a powerful, accurate, and consistent golf swing...as always, it is the best way to improve performance, and that never changes!

:act-up:
 
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Trout Bum said:
Man that's a good question. I don't need it to be visual for the most part and personally for me visually less is more. Where I prefer to see the tech is in the results like consistency and trajectory
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I'm the same way. If you can pack tech into a club and still make it look more traditional, I'm sold. I bought the 2013 Apex strictly for the looks. I really like what Mizuno is doing with their MP line--they've got a fair bit of GI tech going into some of those clubs, but they still look simple and tidy. I also really like the Titleist 716s--everything down to the CB has some tech in it, but they kept the clubs looking pretty simple. I could do without the inserts on the AP1 and AP2 though.

BlkNGld said:
To me a good example of the 'fine line' is the Cobra KING.

Unless there's something for me to tinker with inside, why do I need to remove that spaceport and look inside? When I see that, I wind up asking myself how much less the club would have cost without it. Seems the same design characteristics could have been achieved without it at lower cost.
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I wonder how much less flak Cobra would have caught for the King LTD if they had just made the space port opaque. There are some good technical reasons why they made the weight a big flat disc, but making it orange plastic makes people think "window", not "innovative sole weight". If they had just painted the dang thing black instead of making it translucent orange I don't think there would be a single criticism of that club.

Cobra really walks the line for me. I LOVE the innovations in the whole King line, and other than the silly checkerboard on the sticker the ForgedTEC are pretty much my ideal of a beautiful GI club. I personally like the black King Pro irons, but I know not everybody does. Then they went and added the space port...
 
Oddly enough, Cobra gets a lot of mentions in this thread when you start talking tech. I bet that tickles them pink. Seems like it's working for them, as I imagine buzz is the first step in producing sales.
 
I definitely don't need to see it, and some of the club designs are getting a bit outrageous if you ask me.
 
I don't need to see it physically but I do need to see the results. I also need to understand the technology if I can't wrap my mind around something I can't truly buy into something. But seeing it has nothing to do with that.

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deuce said:
Oddly enough, Cobra gets a lot of mentions in this thread when you start talking tech. I bet that tickles them pink. Seems like it's working for them, as I imagine buzz is the first step in producing sales.
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I think you can make a solid argument that Cobra has done the most tech innovation in the current batch of releases. We'll see if that's still true after the PGA show, but they're clearly moving the needle.

I think they actually have been for several years, they just didn't get as much attention because stuff like the BioCell and Baffler were considered fugly by so many people.

If Cobra can figure out how to get their performance tech into packages that the general public considers stunningly beautiful, and at the same time stick to what they've done with the King and F6 lines (sensible release dates, product line differentiation that is easy to understand) they'll be set up to unseat Callaway as #1.

They just need to make some dang wedges and putters!
 
Dave Alvarado said:
I think you can make a solid argument that Cobra has done the most tech innovation in the current batch of releases. We'll see if that's still true after the PGA show, but they're clearly moving the needle.

I think they actually have been for several years, they just didn't get as much attention because stuff like the BioCell and Baffler were considered fugly by so many people.

If Cobra can figure out how to get their performance tech into packages that the general public considers stunningly beautiful, and at the same time stick to what they've done with the King and F6 lines (sensible release dates, product line differentiation that is easy to understand) they'll be set up to unseat Callaway as #1.

They just need to make some dang wedges and putters!
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The Tour Trusty's are damn good wedges, and there will be a new wedge coming I would venture this year.

As for putters, that's asking to lose money.
 
Jman said:
The Tour Trusty's are damn good wedges, and there will be a new wedge coming I would venture this year.

As for putters, that's asking to lose money.
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Heck, I even liked the Trusty Rusty wedges. The K-Grind is a great option.

Really hope to see them and/or the Tour Trustys make a comeback this year.

I think Cobra has done a good job of making most of their tech visible without being excessive. The Amp Cell and Bio Cell woods had a lot of tech (MyFly, Smart Pad, E9 face tech, bio-inspired multi-material crown) that stayed in very aesthetically pleasing packages, IMO. Their irons were a bit more...noticeable.

Me personally, especially knowing the intent behind the Space Port and the advantages it brings, I still don't think it's any more visible or ostentatious than sliding weights or giant gashes (ahem, channels) cut into the sole of a club.
 
Re the OP, answer today is that I don't need to see technology.

Regarding this
bobcat said:
I think true technology breakthroughs are actually quite rare these days despite what the OEM''s would have you believe.
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I don't know what Bobcat considers to be a "real technology breakthrough" but I think it is silly not to acknowledge near continuous improvement and advancements in golf technology.



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I don't need to see technology, but I do need to see it working prior to purchase. As an avid THPer I'm usually fully aware of what a manufacturer's claims and aims are with a given club before I swing it so I want to see what I should see.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I don't know what Bobcat considers to be a "real technology breakthrough" but I think it is silly not to acknowledge near continuous improvement and advancements in golf technology.
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For some, it has to be earth shattering to have value -- And that's fine, of course.

All I need to do is see the ball in the air. If I like what I see, I like what the technology is doing.
 
Jman said:
The Tour Trusty's are damn good wedges, and there will be a new wedge coming I would venture this year.

As for putters, that's asking to lose money.
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Yes, Cobra does make wedges and will have a new one.
The irony in taking over #1 is that Callaway is not #1 in metal woods.
And King LTD came out and then a few months later F6 and F6+ came out. If another company did that they would be viewed as putting out too many releases. It just so happens that they stop at 3 instead of having 4 (unless you count limited color at Masters).

I enjoy what Cobra is doing, am good friends with the people there and they are a fantastic supporter and partner of THP. Them becoming #1? No chance. Them moving past 1% of marketshare? I think thats not only doable but should be happening already.
 
Them becoming #1? No chance. Them moving past 1% of marketshare? I think thats not only doable but should be happening already.
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Honest question, is moving past 1% of the market share a significant advancement in terms of sales? (Other than the obvious 'they are trending in the right direction)

And, as someone privy to more info than I am, what would you attribute this advancement to?(and does visible tech play into this?)
 
rallo said:
Honest question, is moving past 1% of the market share a significant advancement in terms of sales? (Other than the obvious 'they are trending in the right direction)

And, as someone privy to more info than I am, what would you attribute this advancement to?(and does visible tech play into this?)
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Yes, it is quite significant.
Hard to say since it hasnt happened yet.

Cobra is a very unique conversation and test case.
They make high quality golf equipment.
They have one of very few tour golfers that moves the needle.
They have R&D and marketing people that are well known and marketable.

Yet they have not sold a lot of equipment and one could argue have trended in the wrong direction. They have made some changes internally over the last couple of years that I believe really helps the future. They brought the King back, which will definitely not hurt and they are willing to work to make it happen. I think the future could add improvement to those numbers and if the marketing is done right, could really change the landscape for them.

They have some major hurdles to overcome in terms of that, but as a company that was literally a dominant force in drivers, if done correctly they can definitely make a push towards an increase.

I have my own thoughts on why they have not advanced in recent years, and shared them with them when asked last time I was out there at their HQ (2 months ago). We will see what the future holds, but they are good people, so I hope its bright.
 
I have no need to see technology. If the club performs how I like, that's the bottom line for me. That said, if the technology is visible and it performs, it isn't necessarily a deal breaker.
 
If you have an amazing new patented technology that is going to #changethegame, why wouldn't you show it off? I'd be proud of it. IMHO.
 
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