Are single seat carts/vehicles the future for golf now?

[mancest]

What if they aren't allowed to for say, 6 months to a year. Is it a viable option for courses to try and run their businesses with a bunch of two seat carts and only have one person per cart? Hell I know courses now that struggled to keep up with cart demand during the season with 2 people per cart.

Yeah, I think what people want and what state/local governments allow are 2 very different things. governments want CYA on everything so i think they are going to push social distancing for longer than science would even deem prudent. I also think they like telling everyone what to do, but that is not what this thread is about.

I already emailed the head pro at my home course with the finn scooters. I am a walker but figured I would at least ask him.

 

[oumagic]

isn't that what regular carts already do?

I believe so, or the same problem would apply to current carts. That is why I am saying that the Phat cycles should be able to engineer it differentlyto get around the problems that the sales rep discussed with Todd.

 

[mancest]

I believe so, or the same problem would apply to current carts. That is why I am saying that the Phat cycles should be able to engineer it differentlyto get around the problems that the sales rep discussed with Todd.

My guess is it is solvable problem. Whether it is solvable for their budget is most likely the issue.

 

[-CRW-]

What if they aren't allowed to for say, 6 months to a year. Is it a viable option for courses to try and run their businesses with a bunch of two seat carts and only have one person per cart? Hell I know courses now that struggled to keep up with cart demand during the season with 2 people per cart.

But they already own (or are paying on) whatever carts they have. So the only loss they have is from second riders.

If it extends that long they will have to determine what is best for their business based on past use. Whether that means buying or temporarily leasing more 2 seater carts, or trying newer single rider design options. If none of those are an option for them financially they will have to continue to operate as is. Some courses/businesses are poorly run and will fail.

 

[CBaker]

Yeah, I think what people want and what state/local governments allow are 2 very different things. governments want CYA on everything so i think they are going to push social distancing for longer than science would even deem prudent. I also think they like telling everyone what to do, but that is not what this thread is about.

I already emailed the head pro at my home course with the finn scooters. I am a walker but figured I would at least ask him.

Oh yes - I agree. It's kinda what this thread is about though in a way. Because I don't think this would necessarily HAVE to go on that long....but at some point businesses will start to lose money if told to go on for an extended period of time with 1 per cart. There are a good amount of courses around here that just aren't walkable, so that's either half the possible business because of 1 per cart, or forcing people to walk which because of the layout, will extend round times significantly.

 

[fuffle master]

I don't see the one person scooters as a real option unless the course raises prices. The cost is much higher for those items and they seem like a novelty versus the norm.

However, for much more expensive and private course those one person options may become more available.

 

[mancest]

Oh yes - I agree. It's kinda what this thread is about though in a way. Because I don't think this would necessarily HAVE to go on that long....but at some point businesses will start to lose money if told to go on for an extended period of time with 1 per cart. There are a good amount of courses around here that just aren't walkable, so that's either half the possible business because of 1 per cart, or forcing people to walk which because of the layout, will extend round times significantly.

I am curious. how do courses charge? I sit an all in fee (includes greens fee, cart, maybe balls) or is it ala cart (greens fees then a cart is charged seperately)? Most places around here are ala cart, but the cart fee is for shared cart. I think that will impact how these places have to proceed going forward.

I don't see the one person scooters as a real option unless the course raises prices. The cost is much higher for those items and they seem like a novelty versus the norm.

However, for much more expensive and private course those one person options may become more available.

but if you are limiting your rounds because you run out of carts you are going to have to raise prices right? If a course is walkable that isn't much of an issue, but if the course is set up to be cart only... well your fleet just got effectively cut in half so something is going to have to give.

 

[CBaker]

I am curious. how do courses charge? I sit an all in fee (includes greens fee, cart, maybe balls) or is it ala cart (greens fees then a cart is charged seperately)? Most places around here are ala cart, but the cart fee is for shared cart. I think that will impact how these places have to proceed going forward.

Courses here either bundle it all together, or charge separate, but it's always a charge per person for the same cart. So it's not $20 per cart and that is for both, it's $20 per person, whether you're sharing the cart or not. It's a cart fee in general and has no basis on whether or not two people are in it or just one.

 

[mancest]

Courses here either bundle it all together, or charge separate, but it's always a charge per person for the same cart. So it's not $20 per cart and that is for both, it's $20 per person, whether you're sharing the cart or not. It's a cart fee in general and has no basis on whether or not two people are in it or just one.

Yeah, so they are either going to have raise the cost for the cart fee or the round to recoup that cost.... If the maintenance cost is lower on the single riders... I would not be surprised to see courses move that direction.

 

[JB]

My guess is it is solvable problem. Whether it is solvable for their budget is most likely the issue.

This is very true, and part of it is that many courses do not even know the choices that exist.
Many courses don't own their carts, so most believe their is a huge loss in ownership costs. That is not really the case in a lot of instances where leasing them occurs. Combine that with the options that exist from places like Finn, where the up front costs are tiny and you give them points based on use.

Instead of looking at it as an alternative for adventure, despite how poorly Finn has marketed it. It needs to be viewed as a norm for not only social distancing but increasing pace, etc.

 

[CBaker]

but if you are limiting your rounds because you run out of carts you are going to have to raise prices right? If a course is walkable that isn't much of an issue, but if the course is set up to be cart only... well your fleet just got effectively cut in half so something is going to have to give.

Right. This is going to be the same problem that the restaurant industry has. When your carts (tables) get cut, there is a certain ROI for each seat of that cart, and you now just lost 50% of the possible revenue for that cart per round. Same with tables. each table has a certain ROI per night. You cut tables, you can't make that back up, you're just losing revenue.

 

[mancest]

This is very true, and part of it is that many courses do not even know the choices that exist.
Many courses don't own their carts, so most believe their is a huge loss in ownership costs. That is not really the case in a lot of instances where leasing them occurs. Combine that with the options that exist from places like Finn, where the up front costs are tiny and you give them points based on use.

Instead of looking at it as an alternative for adventure, despite how poorly Finn has marketed it. It needs to be viewed as a norm for not only social distancing but increasing pace, etc.

Yeah, in thinking more about it, the negatives are: liablity and changing your fleet? Concern over hesitation amongst your clientele?

 

[G-Man]

I am curious. how do courses charge? I sit an all in fee (includes greens fee, cart, maybe balls) or is it ala cart (greens fees then a cart is charged seperately)? Most places around here are ala cart, but the cart fee is for shared cart. I think that will impact how these places have to proceed going forward.
but if you are limiting your rounds because you run out of carts you are going to have to raise prices right? If a course is walkable that isn't much of an issue, but if the course is set up to be cart only... well your fleet just got effectively cut in half so something is going to have to give.

Most courses here have walking and riding fees. The course with Finn scooters does walking + Scooter fee ($15-$20) so agree its pricey.

I think its tough because generally tee times are spread further 8 vs 12/15 minutes so less people out which might help supply. To that point if less people are golfing less income this is a huge cost of entry to replace an entire fleet, especially if the course just upgraded their fleet not too long ago.

 

[JB]

Yeah, in thinking more about it, the negatives are: liablity and changing your fleet? Concern over hesitation amongst your clientele?

Correct.
Liability is non existent for the most part once someone is on one.
Changing your fleet can happen at lease turnover with virtually no concern and a trial up front for very little cost.
The last one, the companies like Finn need to do a far better job of telling golfers why.

It makes so much ******* sense in so many ways for courses, but the companies genuinely seem to be going with the "if we build it they will come" method of marketing, rather than we have a real solution to a number of problems that plague this game, here is how we fix it.

 

[mancest]

Correct.
Liability is non existent for the most part once someone is on one.
Changing your fleet can happen at lease turnover with virtually no concern and a trial up front for very little cost.
The last one, the companies like Finn need to do a far better job of telling golfers why.

It makes so much ******* sense in so many ways for courses, but the companies genuinely seem to be going with the "if we build it they will come" method of marketing, rather than we have a real solution to a number of problems that plague this game, here is how we fix it.

Well that marketing strategy worked wonders for Nike golf hard goods so should be great in this portion of the industry as well.

 

[JB]

Ironically as this thread was going up, I made this post on social calling out for Finn to start educating.

 

[mancest]

Most courses here have walking and riding fees. The course with Finn scooters does walking + Scooter fee ($15-$20) so agree its pricey.

I think its tough because generally tee times are spread further 8 vs 12/15 minutes so less people out which might help supply. To that point if less people are golfing less income this is a huge cost of entry to replace an entire fleet, especially if the course just upgraded their fleet not too long ago.

I am not in the golf industry, but not sure how many own their carts vs lease them. So you might have to pay to break a lease, or what I would likely do if I was running a course, bring in a few of these for a trial and if they went well then cut back on my current fleet of traditional carts and up the number of the single riders.

If you own... well. than that is an entirely different scenario.

 

[ddstanford]

It may be something in the future, but I don't think people will get rid of their double carts until they wear out, though the clubs may require single riders.

 

[2BFAST]

Well, lets say they do go to one seater carts.......thats one thing off the checklist that will help make the game faster

 

[WLG1952]

I think the 1 person per cart, or no carts ideas are going to be around for quite a while. I wouldnt be surprised if these ideas make it to 2021. That, or as long as the covid-19 virus is active.

It will be the same with no rakes, inserts in cups, and very limited club house use.

I also expect green fees to increase to make up for lost revenues.

 

[Drumdog]

The norm of 2 people per cart will return before the end of the golf season in my opinion and so will the 4 some tee times.
My local courses have already modified the rule of 1 person per cart. Now they are allowing 2 people in the cart if they live in the same household and if there is a juvenile present, you can have two even if they don't live together.

 

[Windlaker]

Once the panic subsides, we should be allowed to go back to normal. NOT the "New Normal", normal.

The Covid virus isn't going away. Just like any other flu virus.

 

[Canadan]

my post went to the abyss haha! Noooo!

Basic thoughts; I think we see more of the alternate forms like motorized bikes come into play.

That said, I think two seaters return to the norm soon.

 

[CBaker]

Once the panic subsides, we should be allowed to go back to normal. NOT the "New Normal", normal.

The Covid virus isn't going away. Just like any other flu virus.

Would 1 seat carts be a bad thing though?

 

[Drumdog]

The Finncycle has become quite popular at my home course. I think they started with 10 of them last year and were almost always rented.
I have heard they are going to double the number for rent this year.