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Bad Equipment?

SuperStroke
I wouldn't say equipment is physically bad today, they all do similar things just with different ways of doing them. If it fits your swing or feel, then good. I think people assimilate market failures as bad clubs aswell. It also hurts the oems that make many different lines of clubs, somebody buys line 'B' off the rack without hitting it prior when line 'A' would be a better fit. They blame the clubs, its always the oems fault.
 
I don't think there is bad equipment. Just bad equipment for you. Too many times I see people using equipment that they should be not be.

But do I think there bad equipment out there? Not really.
 
Jman said:
I could apply it to all kinds of clubs (SLDR?), conversation is why I started this thread. There seems to be some who think every piece of gear must be judged good or bad, my point is that if a club is aimed at a smaller margin, and serves that margin well, then why must it be a bad club when it does the job it was designed for?

Every single OEM release we see out there fits someone and it is best for someone, every one.
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I don't disagree with your premise, but if I had. to label two clubs it would be those.
 
GregDan said:
I don't think there is bad equipment. Just bad equipment for you. Too many times I see people using equipment that they should be not be.

But do I think there bad equipment out there? Not really.
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Exactly. It can be bad for you, but not a bad club.
 
Jman said:
Exactly. It can be bad for you, but not a bad club.
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That's what I have always believed.

Take my dad for instance. He bought an R9 many years ago when he was still swinging hard and playing a lot. Over the years his playing had gone down and his swing has regressed. He could barley drive the ball 200y when he was used to 230-250. I kept badgering him to get a new driver. He finally went to get fit and ended up with a W/S D100. Loves it and is hitting straight long drives of 230-250 again.
 
There is no bad equipment out there. There is just equipment that is bad for certain individuals that doesn't fit them. For example, anything with any degree of closed face is bad for me but not necessarily to a person with a tendency to slice the ball.
 
Jman said:
So, an incident yesterday of classic troll proportions has made me want to make this thread and see where everyone's minds are at here.

Is there really any bad equipment being released? What makes a piece of equipment bad, that it doesn't fit you? What about the people that it DOES fit, is it still "bad" because it doesn't fit you as an individual?

Just curious to see some conversation here.
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Aren't you the one that blasts anyone that says driver sound isn't important at all? And I know this from personal experience. It's ignorant to say that something is bad because it doesn't work for you.

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EnglishTurn said:
Aren't you the one that blasts anyone that says driver sound isn't important at all? And I know this from personal experience. It's ignorant to say that something is bad because it doesn't work for you.

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First, I blast no one. I have back and forth conversations with the full acknowledgement that we are all different, but it's fun to talk about it. Blasting is not done here by me, not what I'm about ever.

Second, I've not said once something is bad bc it doesn't work for me, that's been my whole point, I can review something that is a terrible fit for me yet still review it gait understanding it will work for some.
 
I blast fools


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The question is very interesting. I don't see it as bad equipment but there is some very bad marketing and ill timed releases that can leave the customers disappointed and confused.
 
Howzat said:
The question is very interesting. I don't see it as bad equipment but there is some very bad marketing and ill timed releases that can leave the customers disappointed and confused.
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Now that I agree with. Confusion can be a real thing.
 
Head scratching equipment? Yes
Equipment with a very narrow target audience? Yes
Poorly marketed equipment? Yes
Bad equipment? No
 
Jman said:
First, I blast no one. I have back and forth conversations with the full acknowledgement that we are all different, but it's fun to talk about it. Blasting is not done here by me, not what I'm about ever.

Sorry but you did. I even received pm's from other members apologizing on your behalf.

Anyway, bad for one is not bad for eveyone.

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EnglishTurn said:
Jman said:
First, I blast no one. I have back and forth conversations with the full acknowledgement that we are all different, but it's fun to talk about it. Blasting is not done here by me, not what I'm about ever.

Sorry but you did. I even received pm's from other members apologizing on your behalf.

Anyway, bad for one is not bad for eveyone.

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Conversation is not blasting, but I fully acknowledge some don't take lightly to having a back and forth about something thanks to this all being in text. It's why I've always been here for everyone and always will be if they should so reach out to me about anything be it questions, conversations, or misunderstandings, it's also why I don't ever take things personally, it's the Internet, no need to be so serious. The point of a golf forum is to talk golf and all of it's different aspects and that's what we do, it's great.

You've got you're opinion and I'm a ok with it, I even respect it. That's why thp is better than anywhere else.

As for this thread though, as I said, I never said equipment was bad if it didn't work for one person, I've always been on the opposite stance and it's not secret.
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This is an interesting thread. It's no surprise that I am a big fan of Tour Edge Exotics clubs, but since having my Wishon irons built this summer, frankly I've struggled with my TEE driver a lot. It's not "bad" equipment, they are really great clubs, it was a bad fit. Today I went out to my fitter and told him I was tired of not being able to hit it with any kind of consistency so we started tinkering. I have complained about it feeling too light to my playing buddies. My fitter had a Wishon Driver and I was killing it. I could tell it was significantly heavier then mine. Put it on the swingweight balance and it came up to D4. My irons are a D2 swingweight and my wedges a D4. Hybrids and 3 wood are right at D2. Put the driver on the swingweight balance, C5! Holy crap! Also ball flight was a little low with the Fujikura Fuel Tour shaft. Change the shaft to a Matrix Red tie and added a little lead tape to the bottom of the club and got it up to between a D0 - D1. Holy moly! Straight, LONG, BOMBS! Can't wait to get out on the course and not be afraid to pull the "Big Dog" out and know where it's going! Not a case of a bad club, but definitely a case of a bad fit!
 
C5 would def pose some issues! Hahaha
 
I'll take the unpopular approach and say that there is such a thing as bad equipment.

If every club were to be assigned a category, be it in SGI, GI, PGI, PI, or whatever else you have there will be one or two options that are technologically superior to the others, have superior shaft options, are made with superior products/methods or just plain outperform. It's not crazy to think there would also be 1 or 2 options that are technologically inferior and when you are inferior in this industry, I label you 'bad'.

Good or Bad is also in direct relation to the marketing about said product. If you advertise 10 extra yards and golfers don't see it, your club is bad even though it may still work. When "The Longest Driver In Golf" isn't even longer than the club it's replacing for a huge portion of the bell curve then it's a bad club. Obviously this is just my opinion as unpopular as it may be and I realize it's not exactly this cut and dry.

Another factor is the test of time IMO. Clubs that are replaced and forgotten about forever were never that special to begin with (AP1's for example). Clubs that year after year are moving the needle and obtaining thumbs-up reviews from nearly all who try them (J40 DPC's for instance) are special, and as such are 'good clubs'.

I guess personally I don't really understand why so many people are loathe to label a club 'good' or 'bad'. Golf manufacturers don't all get pretty little ribbons just for participating and sometimes they misstep...I'm sure they'd even admit as much.
 
I think you could find something you can hit well from any major company. With a mixture of club heads, shafts and being fit to the clubs, you should be able to find something you can hit well from whatever manufacturer. (Except lefties and Bridgestone)

You might not "like" the brand or the equipment (horrible sound, whatever), but you can still hit them decently.
 
I certainly haven't come across any bad equipment.

I think for the vast majority of us, if we were say a Callaway lover and a TM hater, if you took the latest TM product, took all discernible markings off it and gave it to us telling us it was the latest prototype from Callaway, we'd be raving about how awesome it was. People form opinions on what they perceive they like, and that's often very difficult to overcome.
 
I think most manufacturers make decent equipment anymore. The science and tech behind things is crazy anymore I think it's hard to not make something that is decent for someone's game. I think there's definitely some marketing that leads to higher hopes than what is actually capable to most people which causes some thought of equipment being worse than others. I dunno though, that's just what I think.
 
Bad for me? Yes.
Bad for everyone? Probably not.


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I don't see any of it as bad. There's a lot I can't hit but someone else probably kills it with that stuff.


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Jman said:
I could apply it to all kinds of clubs (SLDR?), conversation is why I started this thread. There seems to be some who think every piece of gear must be judged good or bad, my point is that if a club is aimed at a smaller margin, and serves that margin well, then why must it be a bad club when it does the job it was designed for?

Every single OEM release we see out there fits someone and it is best for someone, every one.
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The SLDR ran on the heels of some pretty forgiving drivers, though. I've hit the R1, the RBZ II, the R11, and the R9, and I liked most of those sticks...and I am not a guy who consistently finds the sweet spot on the driver. I can't help but think that forgiving, to a certain extent, means it functions as advertised for a larger range of golfers, especially for drivers. Reduction of loss of distance and exacerbation of direction on mishits are two hallmarks of forgiving that simply don't register on the SLDR. It's fairly punishing, but because it ran on the heels of (far) more forgiving drivers, it used TM's reputation to insinuate itself into a lot of bags where it simply didn't belong.

I struck up a lot of conversations with, "How do you like the SLDR?" that ended with, "I went with the Amp Cell [and eventually the X2Hot] because I just needed the forgiveness." It helps when I see guys who told me they bagged an R7 or R9 before the SLDR who just couldn't hit the SLDR for rubbish. I'm not hocking the SLDR as bad or the Amp Cell as good...but I am saying that I, a similarly middling player, found more success with something more similar to the previous TM drivers than the SLDR.

I can understand brand loyalty...but there's certainly a shift in direction with the SLDR. If a customer remains consciously ignorant of the technological and principal changes that the SLDR heralded, then I have no problem saying it's on them. But there's a line between Tusser saying a fool and his money are soon parted and Canada Bill Jones saying "It's immoral to let a sucker keep his money."
 
With the technology available to the manufacturers these days I think they all are well equipped to put out great gear, which I think they are doing. Some of it that I don't like or doesn't fit me but that doesn't make it bad as its bound to fit someone out there.
 
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