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Ben Hogan Golf - Can they survive?

SuperStroke
The number on the iron doesn't matter one bit. The number usually tends to correspond with the landing angle though, and that matters.


As for the question at hand, I would say probably not. Nothing against the company, just not a business I would choose to throw money into at this point if I cared about the money. Hard to say for certain without seeing the books

PXG has the go daddy owner and while I don't think he is trying to lose money he has the ability to burn cash and not have to worry about it.
 
If they can keep their inventory control under control and make a good product, they might be ok. If they get reckless, then not so much.

Hopkins is still around so there should be a glimmer of hope?
 
MWard said:
If they can keep their inventory control under control and make a good product, they might be ok. If they get reckless, then not so much.

Hopkins is still around so there should be a glimmer of hope?
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Keeping the inventory under control is a double edges sword of having to pay more to create the product since you won't get as large of a price break on the materials cost. I could be wrong about that though if they are able to get a deal on things by saying they want x amount but only take y amount and pay for y amount at x amounts price. Not sure how those negotiations go on in this space.
 
#Cookie said:
Maybe a little....but definitely not much. I have no qualms grabbing a 5h and playing it 165. And definitely not enough of a confidence "boost" to make me chase yardage...especially at the cost of accuracy.

I have no distance gains with Apex over anything I've tried in the past....certainly not going to grab something that adds 10-15 yards at cost of dispersion. But I'm also one that strangely enough haven't been able to consistently hit 7i more than 150....and I've tried a bunch that basically promised distance including BB.
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So you hit a 7 iron muscleback the same distance as a 7 iron Big Bertha? Which is longer, lower lofted, higher flying, etc?

Can you explain the bolded? By that logic, you would not use hybrids I would assume.
 
Disclaimer: High handicapper that does not follow the golf market closely ...

I do not see a wow factor ... I think a couple of folks have mentioned it already, that the younger crowd has very little association with the Ben Hogan brand ...

Given the brand seems to be associated with "my dad / grandpa" I am not sure its long term survival and if they can appeal to younger groups ...
 
MWard said:
If they can keep their inventory control under control and make a good product, they might be ok. If they get reckless, then not so much.

Hopkins is still around so there should be a glimmer of hope?
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Hopkins seems like a good example for comparison to them. Different products, and seems to be a different approach, but still a smaller market company.
 
I definitely see them making it with the Hogan name and everything, i just think they'll be a niche brand though.
 
I think if they try to compete with the big boys like Callaway, Titleist, Ping, TMAG, etc probably not. If the market the right way and can draw in the younger crowd with some heritage and tradition then they could do well as a niche market club.

I think they have improved their design with the PTx that will bring in more interest. One down side woukd be the loft number verse iron number that will push people away.

It it will be interested to see how the release of the PTx goes and to see how they do as a brand in the next 2-3 years
 
I have a ton of respect for the crew at Hogan but they face some big challenges I think going forward. The forged iron market, which you would think would always be their bread and butter given the Hogan legacy, constitutes about 10% of the overall market if our local retailer is to be believed. Outside of the big OEMs operating there, you already have a variety of niche brands (Miura for example), the JDM companies plus several very good and affordable component companies such as Wishon and Golfworks. Once this second more forgiving line hits the market, have they saturated those potential buyers to whom the Hogan name means something?
 
JB said:
So you hit a 7 iron muscleback the same distance as a 7 iron Big Bertha? Which is longer, lower lofted, higher flying, etc?

Can you explain the bolded? By that logic, you would not use hybrids I would assume.
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Can't say that I've hit any MB's to be able compare to. Just saying all irons I've tried I can't get away from 7i as my 150 club:

Cobra S3
Cobra Baffler XL
J40's
545's
Altitudes
Big Bertha
Apex

Regarding bolded...comes down to what works. I don't feel I lose a ton of accuracy with hybrids over irons (same question I posed earlier regarding radio show with Dean). However.....if I do lose accuracy with hybrids in the 3,4,5 slot then I'm willing to accept it given the much larger consistency issues I run into with hitting a long iron off the deck. Becomes a point (for some) where you can't consistently hit an iron well...and that starts with the 5 iron for me. 5-10 yards of dispersion is a heck of a lot better than chunking/thinning and having 75 yards of dispersion.
 
#Cookie said:
Can't say that I've hit any MB's to be able compare to. Just saying all irons I've tried I can't get away from 7i as my 150 club:

Cobra S3
Cobra Baffler XL
J40's
545's
Altitudes
Big Bertha
Apex

Regarding bolded...comes down to what works. I don't feel I lose a ton of accuracy with hybrids over irons (same question I posed earlier regarding radio show with Dean). However.....if I do lose accuracy with hybrids in the 3,4,5 slot then I'm willing to accept it given the much larger consistency issues I run into with hitting a long iron off the deck. Becomes a point (for some) where you can't consistently hit an iron well...and that starts with the 5 iron for me. 5-10 yards of dispersion is a heck of a lot better than chunking/thinning and having 75 yards of dispersion.
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Now I got it. Most of those being distance irons, makes me understand.
 
As an older guy and I think more the Demographic they will have to target out of the box for the initial success they will need to survive, it is my opinion they need to add standard loft numbers on the clubs. They can keep to the unique approach of the stated lofts (but maybe a much smaller stamping).

IMO older Golfers are not going to like the standard markings they are using now, it is hard enough to remember basic things without worrying about which club is which on the Course. Sure in time you will get used to it, but why add anything that would put off potential Customers. If the clubs are as good as they look, they will sell and word of mouth will travel in the places they are targeting such as Private clubs and the bigger high end Markets.

But to really make money they have to have young people to buy in, that IMO will take a known face to win with these clubs. A Rickie F. type person who is a bit different but not so far off to be polarizing.

Or target the Champions Tour crowd real hard with someone, let's say John Daly (yes I said it) who is well known and if he starts winning and does not make an ass out of himself could bring instant recognition to the Brand. Not quite in the old legend type theme, but different sells nowadays.

Maybe an extreme example but it's just an open thought process to talk about, so please be gentle.
 
I think they can. They are targeting a golfer that will see through all the latest marketing hype from other OEM's and come back to a "traditional" looking iron with cleans lines and a name that resonates with many. I think they survive if they manage their inventory and maximize their core customers to the fullest. Maybe take a risk here and there to get more exposure, but i think with a solid model they can be profitable & survive.
 
jim54 said:
As an older guy and I think more the Demographic they will have to target out of the box for the initial success they will need to survive, it is my opinion they need to add standard loft numbers on the clubs. They can keep to the unique approach of the stated lofts (but maybe a much smaller stamping).
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Very difficult to do IMO since their whole philosophy is adapting to the golfer and their needs. How do they add a loft and an iron number without giving up making an iron in each loft?

When you have a 43, 44, and 45* club. Are they all PW's? 45 is a PW and 43 is a 9i? Just messy without hard coded lofts for each club.
 
The Hogan name is an amazing tool to have! If 'they can put out clubs that are at or near the top of technology and do some advertising, I think they can stay relevant. The more we talk about them with the thousands of our members is a good thing, and if some of our members buy and share their thoughts with new people they play with, that will also help. Soon some THP members will have an opputunity to try a set, their honest and thourough reviews will be a good thing.

i want Hogan to survive and thrive, the more quality choices we have the better it is for the industry.
 
I really have no idea, but I hope they stick around. It occurs to me that the "players" and "blades" categories have got to be the toughest to create a standout product in. Every OEM seems to have a really solid offering there.

I think that if the PTx and Ft. Worth irons aren't more than a classic name on a classic design they will fizzle out. To be a successful niche they need to impress those who pick them up and BEAT the competition.
 
The thing going against them is that their "target" market has to expand if they want to make if past a few years. As has been mentioned, how many golfers in their 20s (and possibly even 30s) does the Ben Hogan name really resonate with?

If they are catering to the slightly older (40s+) country club member, how often are they buying new clubs? Once they saturate that market, can they expand their customer base? I think this was the problem with Scor, maybe the Ben Hogan name helps them get a little more exposure, but to me it is more than a little troubling.

I think the reason most of the OEMs market distance, is because it sells. If Ben Hogan doesn't market that, then I think they will struggle. That said, I am impressed that they did somewhat of an about face and came out with a more forgiving Iron Set this year. If they can continue to innovate and make good products then they have a chance to keep going but I still think it is unlikely they are a successful OEM in 5 years.
 
I think they have the potential for long-term success, but, as others have said, not beyond a niche brand. They've got the name, they've got the stated loft rather than numbered iron idea, they make a beautiful and functional product. I think they are doing everything they can at this point. I think it's always going to be a problem getting their clubs into a lot of players hands simply because of the sheer volume of fitting that goes into them. Just like any other custom job, that customization makes for a certain ceiling unless they can invest in fitting in a matter comparable to Ping, and I'd argue even more so, simply because they're talking about every iron being loft fitted for gapping. At least hypothetically that means having multiple irons to fit into rather than just hitting a 6 or 7 iron and extrapolating from there, though I'll be the first to admit I'm not entirely in the know on their fitting process.
 
They need to find their niche OUTSIDE of the Hogan name. I am just not a believer that the name moves the needle all that much certainly not enough to form a profitable company. But if the find their niche with their products then he's they will be successful. I may be in the minority thinking the heritage behind the name doesn't mean as much but it is just an opinion. Up until this release they have made me scratch my head on their marketing but they seem to be coming around a touch

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I think they'll have to include a true GI iron in the line up to succeed.

I think even established large OEMs would struggle if they only released blades & player's cavity backs.
 
I think it is tough for any golf OEM to make it long term (5+ years) without being accessible in golf stores like Golfsmith, Dicks, etc. Where does the avg (non-internet) golfer even see/buy a Hogan iron? A good example is I have played golf with people who see my Srixon irons & say..."I didn't even know Srixon made irons".

One of the few exceptions would be a small boutique golf company that is a part of a larger profitable company.....kind of like Bridgestone golf.
 
i say emphatically no. i don't see them advertising on tv, and i don't see them advertising by putting together a stable of relatively visible tour pros. so the only way they are going to sell golf clubs apart from a name an aging share of the market recognizes will be to put them in pro shops, hit social media hard, and hopefully get some good reviews from sites like thp and then find success with regular guys. my issue with the social media angle is that these don't seem to be marketed in a way that is very social media friendly. they're very traditional looking, they are appealing to a bygone era. i don't see that working well on instagram.

the barrier to entry seems to be ridiculously high. kinda like wine: the best way to make a million dollars in the wine industry is to start out with 10 million. parsons has the scratch to do whatever he wants. i think hopkins does as well. i'm not sure who is the money behind hogan.
 
c.a.eleric said:
i say emphatically no. i don't see them advertising on tv, and i don't see them advertising by putting together a stable of relatively visible tour pros. so the only way they are going to sell golf clubs apart from a name an aging share of the market recognizes will be to put them in pro shops, hit social media hard, and hopefully get some good reviews from sites like thp and then find success with regular guys. my issue with the social media angle is that these don't seem to be marketed in a way that is very social media friendly. they're very traditional looking, they are appealing to a bygone era. i don't see that working well on instagram.

the barrier to entry seems to be ridiculously high. kinda like wine: the best way to make a million dollars in the wine industry is to start out with 10 million. parsons has the scratch to do whatever he wants. i think hopkins does as well. i'm not sure who is the money behind hogan.
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I am the opposite if I saw them advertising and having tour players I would give them 3 years tops. Keep the costs down and come out with a rock solid niche product I think that is the recipe for success as a new company coming into the golf world unless you have some major money behind you (even then I am not convinced pxg will be around in 10 years)

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lightningbolt44 said:
I am the opposite if I saw them advertising and having tour players I would give them 3 years tops. Keep the costs down and come out with a rock solid niche product I think that is the recipe for success as a new company coming into the golf world unless you have some major money behind you (even then I am not convinced pxg will be around in 10 years)

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how do you buy something you don't know exists?


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I think they will survive for a while as long as they don't try to get too big too fast. Know who you are and embrace it.
 
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