Bifurcation of the Rules
- Moderator
- #77
What if they are in a tournament playing in the same foursome and ignoring the same rules?
I don't think the argument of 'people don't know or care about the rules' is a real reason to not improve the rules for amateurs.
Fair enough. I never thought about that, simply because on the weekends its driver from every tee and trying to carve shots into every green. Scores are never low. But the rounds are always fun. Probably as much to do with the company than the game.
I don't play in tournaments and my course doesn't care. So - all is well.
- Moderator
- #79
believe it or not, this rule actually goes both ways. If a dude refuses to post his big scores and creates a vanity cap, it screws over ABCD tournament or casual money round partners where names are drawn randomly.
It's done to protect the membership and it's widely appreciated. No one is required to keep a cap at the club, but if they want to play in tournaments with one, they are expected to play by the rules when producing it.
- Moderator
- #80
I don't play in many tournaments or money games either (but for different reasons lol)..
That said, I am the chair of the rules and handicap committee and love participating in the policing and validation our of membership handicaps as I think it creates an awesome experience for everyone to play in tournaments and matchplays.
As I have been thinking about it, both times that I have competed at THP events, I kept every score and tried to be good. Got down to ~6 both times. Having to care about every shot made me better, can't say I enjoyed the game more, but I was better.
I do understand your POV. Nobody wants the Team Johnny Rod -12 showing up and shooting a 71.
- Moderator
- #82
haha, the handicap is not supposed to be an advantage, it's supposed to neutralize any advantage.
Now, showing up on the first tee and ****ing yourself? Nothing my committee can do on that one
mski
Active member
It won't matter what sets of rules they are playing, pro or amateur (if there is ever a thing that will exist), if they are agreeing to not follow the rules then they need to be DQ'd.
It's basically the first rule in the book.
The argument will be how will anyone know? That's the sad question unless there is a marker following the group.
We all know when we play in outings- captain crew, best ball or what ever you want to call it they real rules of golf don't apply (they do but really don't)
- Moderator
- #84
there is a difference between 'agreeing to ignore' and being ignorant towards the rules, imo.
The long story short, I don't think a discussion on improving or altering the rules should start or stop with the consideration of those who opt to not know or ignore them altogether.
I just think there should be an amateur rule book and one for the tours. Amateurs need rules, but they could make it simpler, and if we all played by them, we could still have handicaps. If all of us play lift/clean/place or let’s say you have 10 paces from a red stake on point of entry or play all OB as lateral hazard, we would have comparable caps.
I don’t think we play by the same rules as the pros. I am taking penalties that the pros wouldn’t. I am not getting reads on the green from a professional on every hole. I can’t ask for club advice on a par 3 on a course I have never played but they get it on every shot.
I don’t think we play by the same rules as the pros. I am taking penalties that the pros wouldn’t. I am not getting reads on the green from a professional on every hole. I can’t ask for club advice on a par 3 on a course I have never played but they get it on every shot.
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Agreed.
My 2 Baht (worth much less then cents)
The one that comes to mind (not a rule yet) is the proposal to dial back golf balls because the pros hit it too far. Some pros already play or have played balls that consumers don't (Tiger) so what's the big deal? One ball SKU per OEM for their tour staff that is approved by the rules committee. That might equal at most 1/2 day production each year? Retool and the rest of the year's production goes to the consumer.
Think about it. If they didn't play different (read more finely tuned) equipment already there would be no need for a tour van. Need a new driver or wedge? Just send a someone to the local Edwin Watts.
Absolutely yes. It doesn’t have to be a complete overhaul, but the tours play a completely different game anyway. Or at least I’ve never hit a drive I wouldn’t have been able to find but the cameras and gallery helped me out.
TRA024
Well-known member
What if THP would make a systematic effort to collect ideas presented here in the forum and create a "THP rules of golf" which would be used in THP events. That would also give a way to test if they make sense and work in practice or not. After a few iterations JB can call Mike Davis and give him the playbook.
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Thought to ponder.
We already have a huge bifurcation of the rules in the game of basketball. At the NBA level, the written rules give players things like an extra step when picking up the ball or taking the full (NBA) allotment of steps without ever dribbling the ball. On the unwritten side, the refs clearly call a different game. Players can roll all over the floor with the ball and never get called for traveling. Apparently, you are allowed to change your pivot foot and double dribble, just as long as you look smooth while doing it.
We already have a huge bifurcation of the rules in the game of basketball. At the NBA level, the written rules give players things like an extra step when picking up the ball or taking the full (NBA) allotment of steps without ever dribbling the ball. On the unwritten side, the refs clearly call a different game. Players can roll all over the floor with the ball and never get called for traveling. Apparently, you are allowed to change your pivot foot and double dribble, just as long as you look smooth while doing it.
Same specifications for balls and clubs, same grass, trees, hazards (penalty areas) should play the same rules but continue the simplification
Ghost21
Active member
I'm all for it, but don't think major changes would be needed. It would mainly focus on pace of play for me and general enjoyment of the game. Allow players to drop near OB (make it a rule everywhere not optional like now) or anywhere a ball is lost. Let players clean mud balls etc.
I'm sure some players would take advantage of it, but those are the players likely to already be taking advantage of existing rules.
I'm sure some players would take advantage of it, but those are the players likely to already be taking advantage of existing rules.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #94
Curious where these stats come from? I assume that is just using Usga handicap and not the myriad of other options that exist.
I remember reading it in some golf publication a couple years ago that there were about 1.7 million official USGA Handicaps out of about 25 million U.S. golfers. I’ve got buddies that don’t have an official one but use one of the online ones such as TheGrint. I’m making the assumption that the vast majority of those golfers aren’t strict followers of the rules. Certainly zero of my buddies without a USGA handicap are strict about the rules or even understand half of them. 95+ percent of my rounds are played with golfers that have an official USGA index and other than 10 or so tournament rounds a year, very few of those play strictly by the rules(no gimmies, no occasional breakfast ball, favorable drop from a cart path or tree root, roll it out of a unfixed divot, etc.). If those with an official index don’t follow the rules it’s not a stretch to think that more casual golfers don’t either.
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You lost me at bifurcation...
But after looking it up, sure I think this would be a good idea. I'll be honest, I don't know all of the rules and probably don't play some of them right. But when I'm out with my usual group we all play the same way by the same standard set of "rules." Our main goal is to enjoy golf, enjoy each's other's company, and not be a Richard to those around us.
But after looking it up, sure I think this would be a good idea. I'll be honest, I don't know all of the rules and probably don't play some of them right. But when I'm out with my usual group we all play the same way by the same standard set of "rules." Our main goal is to enjoy golf, enjoy each's other's company, and not be a Richard to those around us.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #97
Yeah that is why I asked. Some of the info used by these places is technically accurate, but not really applicable in my opinion.
For instance 25 million golfers is super inflated. Yes there were 25 million golfers, but not all of those play regular golf if that makes sense. Many say cut that number by way more than half.
Then add in the number of options that exist through technology for a handicap now, that is not through the USGA. Most USGA handicaps are done through club membership according to them, where as more golfers play outside of that segment.
The data is very skewed. Here is a fun stat from 2016 Conversely, avid golfers make up just 26% of all players but they play 76% of all rounds.
I am against bifurcation. That being said, I think it to an extent already exists. If you consider that the majority of people that golf neither keep a handicap or play the game as intended to begin with. Courses already have local rules they put I play, and we have the handicap system so that a 20 handicap can compete with a plus. What would more bifurcation accomplish?
I think the rules are one of the beautiful things about golf. They are complicated enough at times. No need to muddy the water more by making a second set of rules.
I think the rules are one of the beautiful things about golf. They are complicated enough at times. No need to muddy the water more by making a second set of rules.
Or college football isn't football because what constitutes an inbounds catch in college (one foot inbounds) isn't the same as in the pros (2 feet required) or pass interference in the pros is at the spot of the foul whereas in college it is a 15 yard penalty?
RetiredBoomer
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Actually, I think that there should be a single set of rules, and that those rules should be determined by what's best for recreational players.
Same thing for golf courses. They should all be 6000 to 6300 yards long. If the touring pros start breaking 60, so be it. Let us see the TRUE difference between local club champs and touring pros by putting them on the same course.