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- #176
Well said. Thanks for all your help advice and support
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Blades Vs Cavity Back
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- Admin
- #177
This is correct. About 21% of the PGA Tour play muscle back irons (using survey from last major).
When asking a few of them this question specifically it almost always came down for a look hey look.
The lack of hook a poster was seeing was merely a coincidence since speaking in general terms the mb will spin more than many modern day club heads.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
There are many different blade design out there, some play a lot nicer than others. Some old blades like CG1's have a sweet spot the size of a peanut. Now days the designs have improved from the years past. Now some muscle backs have a thumb print adding a touch of perimeter weighting, some have titanium molded in the muscle spreading weight to the perimeter more, some have tungsten in the toe, or tungsten heal n toe, there are new computer designs moving CG, and overall they play better than ever before!
For example the famous Titleist 690MB I purchased and very quickly got rid of them due to the fact they were hard to hit, small sweet spot, harder clicker metal, low launching, generally difficult to hit. Actually I tweaked them, loft in lie, even pulled my Hogan shafts to test a few heads out...No Go! Back went the shafts in my Hogans I play now.
If you play blades, and your game is better for it, good for you! There are benefits to both blades and cavities, however if you can ball strike blades well, or take time to learn to ball strike blades then you will have great iron game....Just put the time in. They do look better in the bag!, the flights are awesome!
With a blade iron in my hand, I am fully optimistic about the shot at hand, and en devour to execute a good swing to get the job done. Probably why some miss hits are not too bad!
Here are some good blades
Hogan 1999, Hogan Redline, MP33, MP68, 69, MP4, 5, Adams MB2, Yonex Ezone MB's (my next buy), Vega vm-01-Vm-02, Fourteen, Miura, Chikara MB1, Cobra FlyZ Pro, Cally RazrX, Vapor Pro, Scratch SB1, Titleist 716,
Please excuse me if I left any out, perhaps you can chime in about yours
For example the famous Titleist 690MB I purchased and very quickly got rid of them due to the fact they were hard to hit, small sweet spot, harder clicker metal, low launching, generally difficult to hit. Actually I tweaked them, loft in lie, even pulled my Hogan shafts to test a few heads out...No Go! Back went the shafts in my Hogans I play now.
If you play blades, and your game is better for it, good for you! There are benefits to both blades and cavities, however if you can ball strike blades well, or take time to learn to ball strike blades then you will have great iron game....Just put the time in. They do look better in the bag!, the flights are awesome!
With a blade iron in my hand, I am fully optimistic about the shot at hand, and en devour to execute a good swing to get the job done. Probably why some miss hits are not too bad!
Here are some good blades
Hogan 1999, Hogan Redline, MP33, MP68, 69, MP4, 5, Adams MB2, Yonex Ezone MB's (my next buy), Vega vm-01-Vm-02, Fourteen, Miura, Chikara MB1, Cobra FlyZ Pro, Cally RazrX, Vapor Pro, Scratch SB1, Titleist 716,
Please excuse me if I left any out, perhaps you can chime in about yours
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- Thread starter
- #179
Sweet list.
What's your take if any on the Mp-5's. Pro's Con's. From your perspective
You have already seen mine.
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UglySwing
New member
I owned a set of MP-4's and MP-33's. I've since sold the 4's (but I liked them a lot).
I love hitting the MP-33's.
My regular set I normally play (I will sub in my 33's for a week or two here and there) are the 850-F's.
The MP-4's (and now the 5's) are the prettiest set of irons on the market.
I love hitting the MP-33's.
My regular set I normally play (I will sub in my 33's for a week or two here and there) are the 850-F's.
The MP-4's (and now the 5's) are the prettiest set of irons on the market.
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- #181
I can sit down and drool at the Chrome all day. Hate to even think about scratching them up during play.
Why did you prefer the MP-33's
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UglySwing
New member
Blades Vs Cavity Back
Inexplicably I bought 2 sets of used blades last spring/summer.
I was kind of where you were at, and decided I wanted to see if I could play them, and if their might be some benefit to my game. Mostly, I just loved the way they looked
I gamed the MP-4's this summer, and really enjoyed them. I then went back to my regular irons and was playing some really great (by my standards) golf.
I decided to sell the 4's (I didn't need 3 set's of irons) and chose the 4's to sell because I could get more money for them.
I started practicing with the 33's last month, and really enjoy them. I'm taking the 850's out of the bag for awhile.
In my opinion, the benefit of GI irons can also be a negative.
Because they are so forgiving, you can swing harder, knowing if you mis-hit the ball, you won't be punished severely. Again, in my opinion, that can lead to bad habits over time.
I play my worst golf when I try and muscle the ball. Blades don't allow me to do that.
When I went back to my regular GI irons, I had slowed down my swing, and it led to much improved golf for me.
I don't know (or care) about the entire 'feel' thing, and I play a draw every shot...those aren't things I noticed (or cared about).
I can sit down and drool at the Chrome all day. Hate to even think about scratching them up during play.
Why did you prefer the MP-33's
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Inexplicably I bought 2 sets of used blades last spring/summer.
I was kind of where you were at, and decided I wanted to see if I could play them, and if their might be some benefit to my game. Mostly, I just loved the way they looked
I gamed the MP-4's this summer, and really enjoyed them. I then went back to my regular irons and was playing some really great (by my standards) golf.
I decided to sell the 4's (I didn't need 3 set's of irons) and chose the 4's to sell because I could get more money for them.
I started practicing with the 33's last month, and really enjoy them. I'm taking the 850's out of the bag for awhile.
In my opinion, the benefit of GI irons can also be a negative.
Because they are so forgiving, you can swing harder, knowing if you mis-hit the ball, you won't be punished severely. Again, in my opinion, that can lead to bad habits over time.
I play my worst golf when I try and muscle the ball. Blades don't allow me to do that.
When I went back to my regular GI irons, I had slowed down my swing, and it led to much improved golf for me.
I don't know (or care) about the entire 'feel' thing, and I play a draw every shot...those aren't things I noticed (or cared about).
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- Thread starter
- #183
Kool. Thanks for your insight.Inexplicably I bought 2 sets of used blades last spring/summer.
I was kind of where you were at, and decided I wanted to see if I could play them, and if their might be some benefit to my game. Mostly, I just loved the way they looked
I gamed the MP-4's this summer, and really enjoyed them. I then went back to my regular irons and was playing some really great (by my standards) golf.
I decided to sell the 4's (I didn't need 3 set's of irons) and chose the 4's to sell because I could get more money for them.
I started practicing with the 33's last month, and really enjoy them. I'm taking the 850's out of the bag for awhile.
In my opinion, the benefit of GI irons can also be a negative.
Because they are so forgiving, you can swing harder, knowing if you mis-hit the ball, you won't be punished severely. Again, in my opinion, that can lead to bad habits over time.
I play my worst golf when I try and muscle the ball. Blades don't allow me to do that.
When I went back to my regular GI irons, I had slowed down my swing, and it led to much improved golf for me.
I don't know (or care) about the entire 'feel' thing, and I play a draw every shot...those aren't things I noticed (or cared about).
I think I'm also in your camp. Willing and enjoy the experience of trying new clubs and learning more about golf.
Understanding that in the end only the individual can determine what they like, need, enjoy or might just want because they just suit your eye.
But I also really enjoyed the THP'ERS source of unbiased opinions. From experts and Pro's. Amateurs from scratch to double par.
Each has their our take and the wide range of options and opinions are very well received.
I take it all in a keep the good and release the lessor good.
But every bit of data has saved me time and money and effort. And also honestly improved my game and my enjoyment of golf.
Thanks again
Currently enjoying the Blades and the GI Cavity Back Irons as well as the great game of golf.
Horses and courses.
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ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
I have not hit them...they look like a similar design to Hogan channel backs, perhaps they are a tad forgiving than previous models with the upper weight above the channel.
Do consider getting them loft/lie/Flo'ed. They are approx D3, do they feel a tad too SW heavy?
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Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
No lets just beat the horse ever longer...........
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- #186
The swing weight feels fine. But will be adjusting lofts and lie and or shaft lengths. My swing is undergoing a make over so as we progress I'm plan to fit my clubs to My new improved swing
What is meant by Flo ' d
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ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
I am assuming your clubs are stock length 38'/5i.
A club maker in your area can reset some of the shafts that twang out of Flo, only reset the ones your not gel-in with. Irons your hitting well don't touch.
An example of this is my 6 and 7i. they were drawing too much. So I orientated the shaft to a different stiffer side flex and cpm wise, roughly there I found Flo also.
As you can see by my previous posts the 7i was nutting straight at greens with toe shot miss hits. Yesterday I hit some stellar shots with it again.
Flo is were the shaft osculated up in down straight while butt clamped. Most players never get this done and don't know the benefits. A shaft has different flex and Flo properties at different orientation settings. If its working don't mess with it, if its not get the shaft turned to Flo, its just a reset and some glue...easy.
I would prop not shorten the clubs as you will lower SW and firm the flex quite a lot with 1/4 shorter or more.Before you do 'anything' SW them first, and check lengths. I would prob leave them alone if your fine with the SW. Just do loft n lie first. Go 1 deg weak in long irons, say 1/2 to 1 deg weak mid, leave shorter irons were they are loft wise.
Your still into the getting familiar phase with these irons for the next 6 months or more. I know this thread is for Cavities Vs blades, we could perhaps talk about tuning more in another thread.
The MP 5's sure are sweet!, I read some reviews and they are rated as a touch forgiving, or slight misses are not punished too bad. I do have my eye on the new Hogans too
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- Thread starter
- #188
I wish I could add any real info to this thread. But it comes down to what do you want to play and what you're willing to tell yourself.
ProZoneGolf
Clubmaker/Fitter
Good point. If I could add anything to this it would be GIR, how many are you hitting first, then if that number is ok for your game, then also consider proximity to the hole.
I can hit greens with Cavities and blades, but find my proximity to the hole closer with blades. It would be good to keep these stats before you consider blades, or move away from them.
Wouldn't more GIR be the primary goal? This isn't a knock on Johan, but if he is truly newer to the game, his words, shouldn't he be more concerned with how many GIRs he has and not how close to the hole is best shots get? On top of that, wouldn't a better understanding how/what is causing his misses (hint: it's not the clubhead design) be paramount?
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- Thread starter
- #192
No knock on me. No worries. But I hate to admit I have been playing on again off again for thirty years. Only broke 80 once by accident. Lol.
But lately have been getting dialed in with my game. Lessons and practicing regularly and noticed that I wanted more feedback and control with my Irons.
Mind you. It's my putter that currently is killing my scores.
So far GIR have not dropped by switching to Blades. I haven't noticed any impact on proximity to the hole yet. But quite frankly I haven't dialed in my precise yardages with each club.
I do have to use a stronger club, by one or two clubs, on most shots. In a Blades Vs Cavity Back comparison Blades are usually shorter but this could be my swing faults. The COR' s are limited by the USGA, so I would expect similar lofts to produce similar distances.
But with all my improvements of late in my swing I haven't experienced as much fear and loathing when playing a blade.
Mileage may vary with hours devoted to practice.
But my long game is a strength and I really should be hitting the putting greens instead of working my my iron play with blades. In the end my scores will be affected more by the weaker parts of my game than my strengths.
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- Admin
- #193
No knock on me. No worries. But I hate to admit I have been playing on again off again for thirty years. Only broke 80 once by accident. Lol.
But lately have been getting dialed in with my game. Lessons and practicing regularly and noticed that I wanted more feedback and control with my Irons.
Mind you. It's my putter that currently is killing my scores.
So far GIR have not dropped by switching to Blades. I haven't noticed any impact on proximity to the hole yet. But quite frankly I haven't dialed in my precise yardages with each club.
I do have to use a stronger club, by one or two clubs, on most shots. In a Blades Vs Cavity Back comparison Blades are usually shorter but this could be my swing faults. The COR' s are limited by the USGA, so I would expect similar lofts to produce similar distances.
But with all my improvements of late in my swing I haven't experienced as much fear and loathing when playing a blade.
Mileage may vary with hours devoted to practice.
But my long game is a strength and I really should be hitting the putting greens instead of working my my iron play with blades. In the end my scores will be affected more by the weaker parts of my game than my strengths.
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COR is limited by the USGA, but there are VERY few irons that go up to that limit. IN fact I dont know a single muscle back set that does (going off memory). Loft is a piece of where distance comes from, but only a piece.
- Thread starter
- #194
Okay so I don't know what the COR of the MP-5's vs the XR Pro's. So I could be making an equivalent swing and purely seeing different results based on shafts length, lofts and COR.
Because sometimes, as we know, all 8 irons may not be created equal.
More food for thought.
It can be really difficult to compare MB vs CB.
1. Different technology
2. Lofts, shafts, length of clubs
3. Metals and materials of construction
4. Forged vs cast
5. Size, shape and appearance
6. Looks. Style. Curb appeal
7. Personal preference
8. Performance
9. Brand name
10. Etc
In the end when we read a review we need to be grateful and not take for granted the effort it takes to make some sense out of all these important issues and still present the information to the readers in a clear and precise manner.
Thanks JB
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- Admin
- #195
It is more than just shaft length too.
First off, you have to deal with weighted contact and by that I mean the general term sweet spot. Missing at all will impact distance. Then you have to deal with club head speed, which is partly increased with the longer shaft. Then you are dealing with ball speed, and COR is set to a limit, but not a lot of irons are at that limit. Then add how far away from the sweet spot can that limit be reached at all.
Then factor in ball flight. Spin is different with different clubs. A muscle back iron will have more spin off the face than a thinner faced cavity back iron, in general terms. They move the loft down on some of these irons because they are moving weight further back and lower which launches the ball higher. Its less about loft than people realize. The ball can only spin on one axis therefore left and right is easier to accomplish with this package (both good and bad).
To make it easier to understand I will use the driver as an example. If I had you a 8 degree driver and a 12 degree driver, and said which would you hit further, you would not immediately say 8 degree because it is lower launch. You would want to hit both and see the ball flight. Its no different with irons.
First off, you have to deal with weighted contact and by that I mean the general term sweet spot. Missing at all will impact distance. Then you have to deal with club head speed, which is partly increased with the longer shaft. Then you are dealing with ball speed, and COR is set to a limit, but not a lot of irons are at that limit. Then add how far away from the sweet spot can that limit be reached at all.
Then factor in ball flight. Spin is different with different clubs. A muscle back iron will have more spin off the face than a thinner faced cavity back iron, in general terms. They move the loft down on some of these irons because they are moving weight further back and lower which launches the ball higher. Its less about loft than people realize. The ball can only spin on one axis therefore left and right is easier to accomplish with this package (both good and bad).
To make it easier to understand I will use the driver as an example. If I had you a 8 degree driver and a 12 degree driver, and said which would you hit further, you would not immediately say 8 degree because it is lower launch. You would want to hit both and see the ball flight. Its no different with irons.
To answer these in a manner that reflects what I've learned from THP, the people in charge of making the clubs, and my time from playing blades, MCs, and GI irons.
1. Very important
2. Not as much as we would like to believe
3. Big difference in feel but not much in performance
4. No. Just no.
5. More mental difference than performance difference
6. Looks matter
7. A bit redundant, but looks matter
8. Honestly, not as much of a factor as looks for most amateurs
9. We all have brand preferences
10. No idea what that means
There's no shame in playing what makes you happy. But I have never experienced any real benefit to a blade over a more forgiving iron. Technique controls ball flight, not headshape. In my experience anyways.
All these things vary, not just CB to MB, but product line to product line for a single OEM.
Comparing any two golf clubs of any type can be made simple - what does the ball do when I swing the club?
mcrobertsjmac32
New member
Play what you want that's what I learned. If u are asking the question, ur wanting to play blades, so if u want to try it. Maybe it will work for u maybe it wont
- Thread starter
- #199
Enough Said.
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whiteballs
Member
Picked up a set of.bladed this past winter just as experiment..really liked them. switched this summer to ping I and dropped them for mizuno mp54. found my scores haven't changed at all. in fact they were worse with the pings. my par three scoring went up. Guess par 3 scoring is a great way to honestly assess your iron game. wouldn't be Suprise if I'm playing blades again soon. lol. those mp5s are just too tempting lol