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Death With Dignity

Mash said:
I hope you don't mind me for asking, but do "older" people in the US have this discussion, or is this something that isn't really talked about due to the legal status of euthanasia and/or religion and/or a taboo?
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My grandma who is 70 says she would want to end it before letting cancer or another disease rat away at her. She's never gotten into specifics though. I'm not sure if she's spoken about it with her friends.
 
Mash said:
I hope you don't mind me for asking, but do "older" people in the US have this discussion, or is this something that isn't really talked about due to the legal status of euthanasia and/or religion and/or a taboo?
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I can't really speak for everyone, I know in my family we talked about it, but cancer and Alzheimer's are extremely prevalent in my family so it was important to discuss these things early on.

I know for me I do not want any extreme measures and I am proud to be an organ donor. I would hope that if I was to that point of no return that things could end early enough for my organs to be salvageable.
 
On a similar note, make sure you have a living will. And make sure your spouse/significant other is your medical power of attorney (or alternatively, someone who you know will make sure your medical wishes are carried out; your spouse's emotions might conflict with what you want).

Our mom made sure all of this was in place decades ahead of time.
 
Smallville said:
On a similar note, make sure you have a living will. And make sure your spouse/significant other is your medical power of attorney (or alternatively, someone who you know will make sure your medical wishes are carried out; your spouse's emotions might conflict with what you want).

Our mom made sure all of this was in place decades ahead of time.
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I have one and this is very good wisdom!
 
Sorry for the logistical question, but what drugs do they use? Didn't some European country stop exporting the chemicals in these drugs in opposition to their use in the death penalty? Is this a different drug? It's just a pill?
 
Death With Dignity

Erky said:
Sorry for the logistical question, but what drugs do they use? Didn't some European country stop exporting the chemicals in these drugs in opposition to their use in the death penalty? Is this a different drug? It's just a pill?
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Wow I said salt....

I think it's the same thing they use In The death penalty .


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Smallville said:
On a similar note, make sure you have a living will. And make sure your spouse/significant other is your medical power of attorney (or alternatively, someone who you know will make sure your medical wishes are carried out; your spouse's emotions might conflict with what you want).

Our mom made sure all of this was in place decades ahead of time.
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Living will is not always enough. Learned this a few weeks ago while caring for my father. Living wills are written in legal terms; doctors prefer DNR letters.
 
cnosil said:
Living will is not always enough. Learned this a few weeks ago while caring for my father. Living wills are written in legal terms; doctors prefer DNR letters.
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I didn't want to be the one to say it, but you are right. My sister is a nurse and she said that living wills are often useless when it comes to those situations. She said more times than not, they are not honored for one reason or another.
 
Smallville said:
I haven't looked at the link yet, but Mom always said she hoped there was a Dr. Kevorkian around if she got to that point. My general feelings on suicide are probably not the popular one for a lot of people, but if we can euthanize our sick pets, why not humans? I think if you are at the point where quality of life is an issue, you should be allowed to do what we allow for our pets, who I like more than most people!
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I agree with this, but to take it a step further, the person is capable of making a choice for their life, unlike a pet that can't express an opinion.

To the original question, I support the right to choose your time/mode of exit, but really hope I never have to make that decision.
 
Erky said:
Sorry for the logistical question, but what drugs do they use? Didn't some European country stop exporting the chemicals in these drugs in opposition to their use in the death penalty? Is this a different drug? It's just a pill?
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The European Union as a whole stopped exporting these drugs, as it was found that the US' sole reason for importing them was for use at executions.
 
It's a tough situation...that's an understatement, I think. I'll not fault anyone being willing to go out on their own terms, in the face of a terrible alternative. I do think there's something about how we view choosing seppuku (ritual samurai suicide) based on what's killing us. Because I read this article and felt kinda conflicted...I'd hate to think that I would choose to end my life the day before they discover some new treatment or alternative. I feel like I owe my family to keep fighting...

But earlier today, I read an article about a female Kurdish soldier who saved her last bullet for herself: http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...lled-herself-to-avoid-being-ISIS-hostage.html And I thought, "That's awesome; going down in a pile of empty brass rather than being taken prisoner and having terrible things done to you."

And the more I think about it, the less I can necessarily look at one and call it more or less acceptable than the other. Both faced a ghastly end and chose a swifter alternative rather than let the enemy win. Death isn't always the enemy, no matter how much we're told it's something to be avoided.
 
I am going to turn the discussion but I don't think death with dignity isn't in the cards for this country because too many people make too much money off people's end of life care. Something like 70%+ of a person's lifetime health care costs are incurred in the last six months of living and I would hazard a guess that 90% of that care is unnecessary. Rather than nationalized health care and the like to save costs perhaps a greater emphasis on paliative care and end of life care/planning would do us a lot more good.
 
That's a crazy story. More power to her for doing what she wants. Each of our lives is exactly that, our lives. We should be able to decide how we live them, and if we choose, how we end them. I've seen what cancer can do to a person, it is beyond not pretty. Don't know what I'd do in her shoes, and I hope I never have to find out. I wouldn't dismiss it though; her case sounds like that tumor is very very rapidly growing.
 
Obviously, anyone with any human compassion does not want to see anyone suffer needlessly. Personally, I am conflicted regarding dignified suicide; one might say my personal jury is still out. I do think all non-lethal established or experimental measures should be taken to eliminate or minimize the pain. Every year one survives, one may add another year or more to their life span. I often hear people say why should we incur the cost to keep grandma alive for such a brief period. On a pure cost conscience perspective, that may seem to be the reasonable case, (but most times someone else's grandma is being discussed. Sometimes positions change when it gets personal.) It is correct that the protocols, procedures and medications used may not impact the prognosis of that grandma. But it is important to understand that the application, evaluation and amendment of those services and medications may well save or extend the life of another grandma a year, two years or more down the road. That is how medical science progresses, today's failures generate tomorrow's successes. That's the beauty of our current health care system that relies heavily on a private sector free market. It promotes and generates medical advancements. Moreover, the rest of the world should thank our medical arena for those advancements. If our health care ever becomes overly or totally dependent on government financed by taxpayers, our leadership in advancement will become stagnate at worse or significantly slow down at best. As a taxpayer funded scenario, cost and only cost will be the primary consideration and everyone's grandma will have a limited prognosis. Everyone hates the term rationing, be assured it would happen only it will be labelled medical necessity. But what the heck, it will be cheaper.
 
I don't think there is one right answer. I completely understand people who are in favor of it. I was against it when our state passed the law, but I have to admit it has not become a problem and the law had not been abused, at least not that I am aware of.

I would add that death with dignity can be achieved other ways, depending on the disease. My mom died of a brain tumor it took about. two months from the time she was diagnosed until she passed. She went the traditional route, hospice and pain meds so she did not suffer. I felt like there was tremendous dignity with the way she died.

At the end of the day, I guess I just feel like it's a very personal decision.
 
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Smallville said:
On a similar note, make sure you have a living will. And make sure your spouse/significant other is your medical power of attorney (or alternatively, someone who you know will make sure your medical wishes are carried out; your spouse's emotions might conflict with what you want).

Our mom made sure all of this was in place decades ahead of time.
Click to expand...

Mash said:
I hope you don't mind me for asking, but do "older" people in the US have this discussion, or is this something that isn't really talked about due to the legal status of euthanasia and/or religion and/or a taboo?
Click to expand...

Good on Smallville mentioning his mother made her wishes known far ahead of time. Way too few people in this country have the discussion with their family about their end-of-life wishes because frankly, most people don't want to contemplate the end of their lives. Then when something happens and a person can't speak up for themselves, the decisions at that time are left to the family, and all too often the family says "do everything possible" without knowing what that entails.

The woman in the article that was in the OP is choosing to have her life end in a comfortable manner surrounded by her family and friends, as opposed to the alternative with the type of brain cancer that she has, which would likely be in a hospital in an intensive care unit where one of her family members would have to decide when to withdraw life support. I'd pick the first option over the second option when my time comes. I realize some may see it as a slippery slope between an informed decision like this woman is making and assisted suicide, but I think that she is choosing to maximize the end of her life and not extend her suffering and negatively impact her family.

Here's more food for thought, physicians approach their own end-of-life issues differently than most people. A good number of them do not want any heroic measures done on them at the end of life: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB100014240529702039183045772433212428339623
 
So I went back and actually read the article. The woman in the article has glioblastoma, the same type of brain tumor that took my mom. Honestly, this makes me a little conflicted because I know she has a path that doesn't include suffering, there are likely incredibly enriching and meaningful moments ahead for her and her family, etc. But at the end of the day I guess its a personal choice. Tough issue.
 
In such a situation as this lady it's her right IMO to do as decides. I have watched my Dad, my mother-in-law, and an Aunt die from cancer, my Mom is still alive at 93 due only to her pacemaker. I saw my Dad go through a painful bone cancer death that no person should have to experience IMO, it was very hard on the family and if I had a plug to pull for him I would have done it quickly. We have lost so many personal rights and I think one should be able to say enough is enough, say their Good Bye and that be all.
 
I feel the same about this as I do another politically charged issue. I'm against it for myself but I think everyone should have the right to decide for themselves.

Yet I thought about this while watching the 60 Minutes piece on Sunday about the soaring cost of cancer medicines. People, so desperate for survival will understandably do everything possible to live. But medication can cost $100,000 per year with insurance coverage varying greatly.

People have been completely bankrupted, families. If faced with a morbid diagnosis with no cure, if there were an option to free my family from significant financial burden, perhaps I'd consider it too.
 
arydolphin said:
Here's more food for thought, physicians approach their own end-of-life issues differently than most people. A good number of them do not want any heroic measures done on them at the end of life: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB100014240529702039183045772433212428339623
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I have let my wife know, and really need to put it into a DNR, that I do not want any extraordinary measures taken. I don't want to bankrupt my family in a futile effort to extend my life. When it's time to go, it'll be time to go.
 
I found out recently that s friend I knew growing has terminal cancer. Sad situation . He doesn't have a clue how many days on this earth he has left.


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I support her decision, its horrible to imagine taking your own life. But if I became terminal its something I'd consider, I feel suicide is selfish however in these circumstances you should have every right to be. The mindset kind of reminds me of the suicide scene from Cloud Atlas, "it takes a tremendous amount of courage to commit suicide".

If I were terminal I know I'd do a bunch of crazy stuff like re enact Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Might as well go out in style.
 
Oh my goodness. Such a tragic story. I got goosebumps as I read the young ladies last name. So sad.
 
I've been following along with this story and keeping up on her website.



Bucket list complete, 29-year-old cancer patient puts off ending life

Brittany Maynard, the 29-year-old woman with terminal cancer who made public plans to end her life and gained a following online through completing her "bucket list," says she no longer plans to die Saturday.

"I still feel good enough and I still have enough joy and I still laugh and smile with my family and friends enough that it doesn't seem like the right time right now," Maynard says in a tearful new video posted Wednesday on her website, The Brittany Fund.

"It will come because I feel myself getting sicker. It's happening each week," she says.

Maynard was diagnosed with a stage 4 malignant brain tumor in April. She moved from California to Oregon, where she can legally kill herself with medication. Her plans had been to die Saturday, two days after her husband's birthday on Oct. 30.

Sharing her decision to die online in a video that gained more than 8.8 million views, Maynard has become a public figure in the debate over "dying with dignity." She is a spokeswoman for Compassion & Choices, which advocates for end-of-life choice.

"Since January first of my diagnosis, health-wise things have been getting worse... the worst thing that happens to me is I wait too long because I'm trying to seize each day and I lose my autonomy," she continues in the video.



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I saw that. It's a scary thing to end your life and if she's well enough to be okay with how she's living, then I say live on. It does bother me that folks are giving her crap now that she is rethinking things a bit. It's literally a life and death decision. I hope she finds peace no matter what she does.
 
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