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Dr Kwon (World Renowned Golf Biomechanics Expert) vs Shawn Clement

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annsguy said:
Saw a IG post today where I guy had a med ball between his arms and he was doing what looked like the two step drill. Not sure how heavy the med ball was. I’m going to try it when I get to the Y. Too much ice here today.
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I don't have a ball. Coaches say they work well. I do have a 10 lb kettle bell that I tried the step drill and the regular swinging drill that Kwon showed. If nothing else I can benefit from getting additional exercise that I need. I think the kettle bell allows me to attempt a longer takeaway forcing my body to respond whereas a club is much lighter.
 
Luchnia said:
I don't have a ball. Coaches say they work well. I do have a 10 lb kettle bell that I tried the step drill and the regular swinging drill that Kwon showed. If nothing else I can benefit from getting additional exercise that I need. I think the kettle bell allows me to attempt a longer takeaway forcing my body to respond whereas a club is much lighter.
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Either way it should help with constant motion and potentially swing speed
 
BBG with doing the Kwon drills at home.

 
I've just found something that just might explain why the lower body is the main contributor to increasing clubhead speed and its nothing to do with rotating the pelvis in the horizontal plane .

If you have the book 'Search For The Perfect Swing' by Cochran & Stobbs , the solution may lie on page 84.

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Again , just an opinion but it looks like pelvic tilt rotation (in the vertical plane) combined with lateral slide creates the optimal vertical grfs that will help rotate the upper half of the golfers 'ribcage/shoulders/arm/club 'unit together in the early downswing . I suspect the rotating of the pelvis in a more horizontal plane is more about 'getting out of the way' to allow your arms to get a longer backswing.

The way to get pelvic rotational tilt in the backswing and downswing (like the rocking of a boat) is very similar to Dr Kwon's drills .

So maybe we've been perceiving how we get power in the golf swing the wrong way , always thinking its more about body rotation in the horizontal plane to create arm/clubhead speed like a baseball hitter?

PS. On reflection, the above type of pivot movement looks very unlikely and not very body friendly. The more I read about criticisms of vertical ground reaction forces and its correlation to clubhead speed , the less convinced I become because , as Luchnia mentioned in a previous post , there are too many confounding variables to consider .

But again, if these step drills create great rhythm and tempo then it can only be a good thing.
 
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WILDTHING said:
I've just found something that just might explain why the lower body is the main contributor to increasing clubhead speed and its nothing to do with rotating the pelvis in the horizontal plane .

If you have the book 'Search For The Perfect Swing' by Cochran & Stobbs , the solution may lie on page 84.

View attachment 9060493


Again , just an opinion but it looks like pelvic tilt rotation (in the vertical plane) combined with lateral slide creates the optimal vertical grfs that will help rotate the upper half of the golfers 'ribcage/shoulders/arm/club 'unit together in the early downswing . I suspect the rotating of the pelvis in a more horizontal plane is more about 'getting out of the way' to allow your arms to get a longer backswing.

The way to get pelvic rotational tilt in the backswing and downswing (like the rocking of a boat) is very similar to Dr Kwon's drills .

So maybe we've been perceiving how we get power in the golf swing the wrong way , always thinking its more about body rotation in the horizontal plane to create arm/clubhead speed like a baseball hitter?
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The book , The Search for the Perfect Swing , provides us with the most technical facts of any book ever. However, IMO - they shouldn’t have attempted to get into golf swing instruction BC much of it is incorrect.
Again - IMO , our legs provide a stable base for our upper torso to rotate / swing around. It is * rotational * power.
 
Lane said:
The book , The Search for the Perfect Swing , provides us with the most technical facts of any book ever. However, IMO - they shouldn’t have attempted to get into golf swing instruction BC much of it is incorrect.
Again - IMO , our legs provide a stable base for our upper torso to rotate / swing around. It is * rotational * power.
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Lane, give yourself a sharp slap - an uppercut would be better.
 
Lane said:
Well - if the torso is not rotating to provide power / speed then please me what produces it ?
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You really don't know why you need to be hit,do you?
 
We will say again, if this is going to dissolve into taking shots at people, those doing so will be asked to stop and then leave.
 
Reminder to self - no urban dictionary phrases when replying to stupid, misleading or asinine posts.
 
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Saw this SC video (at the bottom of this post) which appeared on Golfwrx forum and there seems to be a subtle difference between his lower body movement vs Dr Kwon.

In SC's backswing , he keeps quite centred as he rotates his pelvis and there is no lateral pelvic shift movement to his right leg which he claims could get you stuck on that trail leg in the downswing rather than promote a weight shift to your lead leg, so SC's pelvic lower body movement is :

Centrally rotate the pelvis into a stable trail leg from address which will push the trail hip back and towards target , 'mini-fall' pressure shift into the heel of a slightly 'flexed lead leg' while at the top of the backswing - push up/outwards with your already slightly flexed lead leg to move your pelvis up and back away from the target.

If I've interpreted this correctly Dr Kwon is now defining the 'turn and shift' as a 'twist' , so he will now be using shift-twist to describe his step drills. Dr Kwon's lower body movement is :

A lateral push off a flexed lead leg at address to laterally shift the pelvis and pressure load on a slightly flexed trail leg, push outwards of the trail leg which extends the leg and pushes the hip up and back towards the target, then a 'mini fall' onto the unweighted lead leg so it can push off a slightly flexed leg and move the pelvis up and back away from the target.

I can understand both types of lower body movement and that is because Shawn Clement uses a different way to orientate his spine in the backswing.

Here is SC 's backswing position compared to Dr Kwon

1642526509621.png

Shawn loads his spine centre-rightwards, while Dr Kwon's spine is centralised (see green lines)

Shawn already has a nice angulated trail leg (aka Ben Hogan although not as pronounced) to put outward pressure away from target and therefore get a grf in the yellow arrow direction which will help his shift/fall onto his left heel at the top of the backswing. His COM in my humble opinion hasn't moved much from address because his butt has counterbalanced his centre-rightwards spine and torso. All he has to do is release the pressure he is applying with his left forefoot to let his body fall onto his heel

Dr Kwon will need to convert that yellow arrow grf to the red arrow to get his COP mainly onto a slightly flexed left leg and I'm assuming he will do this by a 'mini-fall' onto an unweighted slightly flexed left leg.

I think if you have a spine orientation similar to Dr Kwon , his step drills would suit you better , but I'm unsure how effective it would be for a golfer whose spine naturally orientates centre-rightwards (or even further to the right).

Here is the SC video demonstrating the weight pressure shift.

 
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I love Dr. Kwon's drills. For a guy who's issue is freezing over the ball this is helping to free me up.
 
annsguy said:
I love Dr. Kwon's drills. For a guy who's issue is freezing over the ball this is helping to free me up.
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So what are you thinking about that is freezing you over the ball? Body parts or positional moves should never enter into your thinking , especially 'must not' thoughts such as 'I must avoid that pond' or 'avoid that bunker' etc . If you think that way , the subconscious will just act on your last mental picture of the pond or the bunker and you'll probably end up there. Honestly , you must practice external focus because even step drills to optimise your rhythm/tempo will not necessarily mean you will hit the ball solidly.

External focus is really hard to do even for the 0.25 secs it takes to do the downswing and takes lots of practice. I use my chipping to feel/see in 'my minds eye' the type of contact I am intending and where the ball needs to land/end up (and its still darned hard to do consistently for every stroke).

PS. Once you get your external focus cues perfected you will really enjoy your game and will be pleasantly surprised when the ball goes exactly where you intended . And the more you practice the better your judgement and accuracy.
 
When I swing, even using Kwon's drills, I pressure my trail foot to keep the weight more on the inside of the trail foot - shift and go up deep with the hip, while as with a throwing motion I am going to my lead foot and falling on it while twisting/kicking it into the ground - when I fall onto the front foot, I feel like my butt is almost facing entirely forward - I call it the "fart move", I kick that front foot and complete the swing.

The most difficult transition is leaving the arms out of it and moving/turning the lower body and pelvis fast with ground pressure helping the speed.

And when I go bad, it's a lack of flow and rhythm - I want speed but need patience.
 
None of Kwon's info have a thing to do with my freeze. I have'nt played a round since I started doing the drills. I have played for years but never have I played a lot in any one year. Dad duties or work got in the way. In a sense I restart every year. We are now empty nesters so i have no excuse not to play so hopefully repetition will help me from thinking about basic fundamentals i have known for years. Bottom line ,i think too much.
 
Desmond said:
When I swing, even using Kwon's drills, I pressure my trail foot to keep the weight more on the inside of the trail foot - shift and go up deep with the hip, while as with a throwing motion I am going to my lead foot and falling on it while twisting/kicking it into the ground - when I fall onto the front foot, I feel like my butt is almost facing entirely forward - I call it the "fart move", I kick that front foot and complete the swing.

The most difficult transition is leaving the arms out of it and moving/turning the lower body and pelvis fast with ground pressure helping the speed.

And when I go bad, it's a lack of flow and rhythm - I want speed but need patience.
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Think I'll stay down wind if we play. You work on your game. You will get the speed you're looking for.
 
annsguy said:
Think I'll stay down wind if we play. You work on your game. You will get the speed you're looking for.
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:ROFLMAO: I said that to my instructor, and he laughed, saying, "It kind of is that move..."
 
My wife thought I’m was going to suggest ball room dancing or the Macarena. She just shook her head when I said it was golf.
 
Excited to hit some balls (it's been way too cold) with this rythmic weight shift into back leg and then front leg with the [extra credit] centering move before reaching the top!
 
I must admit that I like SC's 'elephant walk ' drill because it more or less fits with the way my spine orientates itself in the backswing . I can still get the rhythm and tempo I need even though its not exactly like Dr Kwons . I also prefer SC's pelvic lower body movement because there isn't too much lateral pelvic sway or hip spin and at 56/57 he can still create enough clubhead speed to drive the ball over 300 yds quite effortlessly (without a very energetic backswing).

 
This is amazing -when the weight of the hands and arms are pulled back around the left hip will rotate around CW in front as the right hip also rotates around back CW in an opposite direction to counterbalance the body . Their is an exchange of arcs in the hip basin . Not necessary for you to focus on that. It is in your genetic design . When the weight of the hands and arms is PULLED down and around the body this human genetic design reverses itself .
All easily performed by any and ALL normal humans who has a basic understanding of human genetics. The body will ALWAYS position itself to accommodate the path / direction / place it’s *** dominant hands desire to travel ! **** WITHOUT EVER QUESTIONING. That is - unless you try to take them over a cliff - then your brain will intercede as it senses danger and will immediately override your hands!
All good players make a slight lateral bump at the start of their DS before their rotation begins BC — if the rotation of our powerful shoulders starts rotating first out toward the target line/ ball our 28 lbs of hands and arms have NO choice but to travel out and around with them . This is what 95 % of the golfers do . You can easily see this every day on every range on the Planet.
I have never seen a good player take * steps * unless on a severe downhill shot. We make the difficult game even harder when a basic knowledge of genetics is the key to success.
This same scanerio occurs when you throw a disc except in an opposite manner . Every normal human is genetically structured this way . It is not something you need to learn. It is already embedded in your genetics .
 
I am reminded of the words "incorrigible narcissist." At any rate moving on...

SC really supports the natural swing movements that are ingrained within us and shows us ways to make the needed improvements for ideal ball striking consistency. There are so many similarities in what SC and Kwon teach about the golf swing, yet they just approach it from different angles. The outputs however appear equal for the most part.

Notice how the focus in SC's video is not on the strike, but on the motion and rhythm of the body to produce the strike. When you hit like that the feel is the greatest. Reminds me of the legendary Moe Norman when he would say, "Pure as the driven snow." On a side note, in his 60s Moe was once asked when he last hit a bad shot. He replied, "Thirty years ago."
 
FYI- having NATURAL athletic ability is definitely an asset in the our efforts to learn , but their is absolutely nothing NATURAL about the golf swing.
You may have the best leg drive and ground pressure force on the Planet , but you had better understand what your dominant hands are preparing to do at the very start of your DS. If not , prepare yourself to be searching for your ball in the left rough and woods.
 
I'm interested in how those using Dr Kwon''s step drill make the transition of the step elements to the normal golf swing. A step move can be done with rotation of the leg, hip abductors, hip flexors or glutes or a combination of two or three. The rotation can be either internal or external with the step step move. But when it comes to the golf swing it is important to get these leg rotations right. If you are having trouble making the transition then you are probably getting the leg/hip rotations wrong. With the golf swing it is usually the opposite to what we are inclined to do.
In the long run it is best that we work it out for ourselves rather than cementing others views.
 
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