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Hanging It Up

its pretty simple. Rampant inflation compounded with less availability and more play........which ironically is capitalism. The last several years you could say this exact same thing about a tonnnnnn of different priced goods. The fact of the matter is that if you love it you will always find a way to enjoy it. Dont buy expensive balls, buy used equipment, play less nice courses. Its no different than deciding to shop at aldis vs whole foods.

I dont hear alot of love of the game from the OP. BUt, i bet he will be back at somepoint not too far away if theres anything inside him that loves the game. And if not, well then i guess hes helping to alleviate his own complaints for everyone else. lol Best of luck!
 
Here is another example of hidden costs in AZ. How to keep the course green. Water usage in the desert is important so just having the Scottsdale courses come up with their plan to reclaim water and them actually paying for it is something nobody considers when paying a greens fee. I don't know what the other local clubs do about water but you always hear about water rights and stuff when you see a course that is lush or barren. Golf is expensive!

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echico said:
Here is another example of hidden costs in AZ. How to keep the course green. Water usage in the desert is important so just having the Scottsdale courses come up with their plan to reclaim water and them actually paying for it is something nobody considers when paying a greens fee. I don't know what the other local clubs do about water but you always hear about water rights and stuff when you see a course that is lush or barren. Golf is expensive!

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That is both really cool and yeah, really expensive.
 
tahoebum said:
The greens fees here in SW Florida during peak season have about doubled since 2019. The cheapest course that I consider playable is about $170 but many are in the $200-$400 range. None of the decent private courses are less than $100k for the initiation fee and $20k for annual dues. The best deal I’ve found is a public course, Old Corkscrew, that is $8,900 for annual dues and has a mandatory cart fee of $35/round so about $12,000 if I played 80 rounds each winter. If it was closer than 45 minutes away, I might consider it.

The price/value doesn’t make sense to me so I choose to play less golf during the winter and spend more time doing other hobbies like fishing, cycling, paddling, and walking. It is easy for me having grown up in MN/WI and having a forced golf layoff during the winter. I’ll play 100+ rounds in Minnesota during the summer and maybe average one round a week during the winter in Florida. I don’t feel like it’s any sort of sacrifice as I enjoy my other hobbies as much or more than golf.

I’m sure the greens fees drop more that 50% during the Phoenix summers so if you live there full time I’m sure you can find some great golf for under $100 and some decent courses for a lot less that that. Play during the 6 or 7 month off peak AZ season and hang it up during the winter.
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Yes, I've explained this a few times in this thread.

Summers our here are brutal. You need to be done golfing by noon. Some can tolerate 110 degree plus in the afternoon, but I'm not one of them.

This actually makes summer tee times extremely competitive. Trying to get a time in the 6-7am timeslot is difficult to say the least. I used to be able to just jump online the night before and grab something decent. Not anymore.

This doesn't account for the fact that even winter rates are significantly higher than the were just a couple years ago. Most golfers in my area have been priced out and courses just cater to travelers and snowbirds who pay exorbitant rates to fill tee sheets without batting an eye.
 
aloha_from_bradley said:
Yes, I've explained this a few times in this thread.

Summers our here are brutal. You need to be done golfing by noon. Some can tolerate 110 degree plus in the afternoon, but I'm not one of them.

This actually makes summer tee times extremely competitive. Trying to get a time in the 6-7am timeslot is difficult to say the least. I used to be able to just jump online the night before and grab something decent. Not anymore.

This doesn't account for the fact that even winter rates are significantly higher than the were just a couple years ago. Most golfers in my area have been priced out and courses just cater to travelers and snowbirds who pay exorbitant rates to fill tee sheets without batting an eye.
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So, basically, if someone is not on the course out there by 8 or 9 am, it's not worth getting out there due to the heat? (generally speaking?) Hell, if you've got to run a business off of 2-3 hours worth of tee times for a decent portion of the year, no wonder the rates are bats**t crazy. They still have to maintain the course regardless of how much (or little) play it gets....
 
I'm no where near as active as I used to be here on THP and even less so on the course. But this subject rung in my head. Where I was one of the lucky ones that could play 2-5 times a week, these days not so much... I only got 3 complete rounds in all last year. The biggest factor was cost, tee times, and round duration. Before this boom of golfers, I was able to basically walk on and walk off as I pleased playing 9 or 18, nothing taking more than a few hours, with a nice steady pace. Now everything is butts to nuts backed up for 5+ hour rounds, 2 or 3 groups stacked at each tee box, and rubber banding. I'm happy to see the sport grow, but theres a difference between growth and critical mass. Now I'm actively shifting all money I would normally spend on memberships and tee times and dumping it into a home simulator. I'll play a round here and there with the guys when asked, but I have no desire to be waiting 20-30 minutes for someone to reload multiple times because they "have to hit the perfect shot" after spending the money these course are demanding these days.

***end grumpy old guy rant***
 
@aloha_from_bradley , if you want you could move to my area of Ohio. My local course is 35$ and then our nicer courses tap out at about $70-80
 
I read a lot of negativity here towards Tucson.We are heading their in a week to stay for 4 weeks house hunting.The area is great and the golf is pretty reasonable.Heck, it’s even cheaper than mid summer Chicago rates on the weekends
 
NeverWiff said:
So, basically, if someone is not on the course out there by 8 or 9 am, it's not worth getting out there due to the heat? (generally speaking?) Hell, if you've got to run a business off of 2-3 hours worth of tee times for a decent portion of the year, no wonder the rates are bats**t crazy. They still have to maintain the course regardless of how much (or little) play it gets....
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Depends on the person. I know guys who ride around the course midday drinking beer in 115 degree heat during the summer months. Most people just don't. Course conditions obviously aren't great. Summer golf is cheaper, but this isn't the reason things are expensive. There may be some offset for courses charging higher rates during the winter months to make up for slow summers, but my main point was that the majority of regular golfers will be aiming for the early tee times during the hotter months.
 
Slot708 said:
I read a lot of negativity here towards Tucson.We are heading their in a week to stay for 4 weeks house hunting.The area is great and the golf is pretty reasonable.Heck, it’s even cheaper than mid summer Chicago rates on the weekends
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Tucson isn't the prettiest city. It's got history, though. I ride the Tour de Tucson as I'm an avid road cyclist, and it's one of if not the largest cycling event in the world.

My favorite courses in Tucson:

- Sewailo (it's at Casino Del Sol which is my favorite place to stay in Tucson)
- The Gallery (is now private, but this is one of the best courses you will ever step foot on)
- Ventana Canyon
- Dove Mountain (right next to The Gallery)
- Starr Pass

Stay away from the munis and executives. They are worse than the ones in Phoenix in terms of condition and pace of play. If you can afford it, look at homes in Oro Valley or the foothills.
 
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Sean said:
You're right, I definitely get my money's worth. The year before Covid I tallied what I paid per round and it came to $4.61. Also included in the monthly dues are a gym, heated bays, grass range (both with Top Tracer Range), a 9 hole short course, grass pitching range, and practice greens. No food or drink minimum either.

I have family in Northeast Tennessee and in that area golf is still very reasonably priced. I guess it depends what part of the country you live in.
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In this particular case, which part of the state, also. I live in northeast AZ. My membership initiation was $2600 for the first year (no monthly dues for a year). In May, my dues will be $180.00 a month. Unlimited golf, two golf courses, no food and beverage minimums. Now, we DO have winter up here but, as long as there's no snow (or very little snow) on the ground, one of the courses is open year round. Winter rates are $55.00 for non members during the winter and around $75-80 during the weekend in the summer (which is what made the membership a no brainer for me because I can only play weekends).
 
Gosh between the incredible greens fees (I paid $85 once to play a well known course with my son and winced while doing it) and suggestions that indoor golf is anything remotely resembling real golf this thread is just depressing. Truly do feel badly for OP. Getting into my 50's I'm starting to put real time into understanding what retirement could look like and based on current pricing where I live (and a fantastic membership deal) I can golf all I want...at least at my home club. Fla and Az have, thanks to this thread, been forever removed from my 'maybe we should consider retiring there' list. Heck this thread might've just convinced me I'm already in the last house I'll ever own.

Our resort area in Md is also unfortunately attracting overpaid, self centered jackass northerners and I can see prices getting a bit out of hand. I'd be crushed if we suffered in the way OP's area has. On the surface it LOOKS like success for the area but the truth is a wonderful place to live was turned into just another shithole of McMansions inhabited by lookatme types. Fla has clearly fallen victim to this in a big way.
 
Superscroll said:
Gosh between the incredible greens fees (I paid $85 once to play a well known course with my son and winced while doing it) and suggestions that indoor golf is anything remotely resembling real golf this thread is just depressing. Truly do feel badly for OP. Getting into my 50's I'm starting to put real time into understanding what retirement could look like and based on current pricing where I live (and a fantastic membership deal) I can golf all I want...at least at my home club. Fla and Az have, thanks to this thread, been forever removed from my 'maybe we should consider retiring there' list. Heck this thread might've just convinced me I'm already in the last house I'll ever own.

Our resort area in Md is also unfortunately attracting overpaid, self centered jackass northerners and I can see prices getting a bit out of hand. I'd be crushed if we suffered in the way OP's area has. On the surface it LOOKS like success for the area but the truth is a wonderful place to live was turned into just another shithole of McMansions inhabited by lookatme types. Fla has clearly fallen victim to this in a big way.
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Heidi Klum Wow GIF by Lifetime
 
Superscroll said:
Gosh between the incredible greens fees (I paid $85 once to play a well known course with my son and winced while doing it) and suggestions that indoor golf is anything remotely resembling real golf this thread is just depressing. Truly do feel badly for OP. Getting into my 50's I'm starting to put real time into understanding what retirement could look like and based on current pricing where I live (and a fantastic membership deal) I can golf all I want...at least at my home club. Fla and Az have, thanks to this thread, been forever removed from my 'maybe we should consider retiring there' list. Heck this thread might've just convinced me I'm already in the last house I'll ever own.

Our resort area in Md is also unfortunately attracting overpaid, self centered jackass northerners and I can see prices getting a bit out of hand. I'd be crushed if we suffered in the way OP's area has. On the surface it LOOKS like success for the area but the truth is a wonderful place to live was turned into just another shithole of McMansions inhabited by lookatme types. Fla has clearly fallen victim to this in a big way.
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As a FL resident, I could not disagree more.
Plenty of places to golf, that are both affordable and beautiful. Its why it is the golf and retirement capital of the world and will continue to be.

With that said, with the millions of people moving here, someone choosing not to is just fine too.
 
The thing you Americans should understand is that you've got options at least. Maybe Arizona isn't the best for this or that right now but as we've seen in the thread there's like 20 other places that are great.

Imagine if your country had 3 major cities and all of them sucked. That's where we are right now LOL.

I mean golf isn't crazy here as a standalone, but when combined with cost of living ...
 
Slow play, lack of etiquette, and sending groups off both the first tee and 10th tee are just some of the things that frustrate me at my club. Growing up I was fortunate to play starting at a young age, and all I can say is the golf atmosphere is night and day different than it was 20+ years ago.
5 hour rounds should just not be a thing. Making the turn after getting up early to get a quick round in to only find people starting off the 10th, ok bye. Listening to music from 2 fairways over, or being at the range and having to listen to someone else’s personal speaker is just annoying. I like this and you like that so let’s both turn our speakers up and create more noise. Majority of the players should be getting a lesson, instead they barely get the ball off the first tee with a 460cc driver.
 
Unfortunately Covid effects are never gonna go away for golf. Maybe 10 years things come back down but I doubt it. I’m thankfully my area hasn’t gone psycho but some other nearby areas absolutely have. Pre covid I could call various private clubs and they would give you a tee time. Now? Won’t even talk to you.

You may see equipment costs come down but that’s probably not so much about demand but rather bulk production/stock.

I don’t envy anyone stuck in a high price course area only these days.
 
I certainly haven't given up the game, still playing every weekday, weather permitting. However, this is the 3rd course I've belonged to since COVID trying to keep my annual membership cost within my budget. The increase at the first course would have more than doubled my cost and reduced availability from 5 days to 4. The other went up almost 30% over two years and where I am now is increasing by a little over 25% when my membership expires, but at least it is still very reasonable being a municipal course. Of course, with each move the quality of the course has decreased as well as the cost.
 
JB said:
As a FL resident, I could not disagree more.
Plenty of places to golf, that are both affordable and beautiful. Its why it is the golf and retirement capital of the world and will continue to be.

With that said, with the millions of people moving here, someone choosing not to is just fine too.
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You need to visit Australia.😊
 
aloha_from_bradley said:
Yes, I've explained this a few times in this thread.

Summers our here are brutal. You need to be done golfing by noon. Some can tolerate 110 degree plus in the afternoon, but I'm not one of them.

This actually makes summer tee times extremely competitive. Trying to get a time in the 6-7am timeslot is difficult to say the least. I used to be able to just jump online the night before and grab something decent. Not anymore.

This doesn't account for the fact that even winter rates are significantly higher than the were just a couple years ago. Most golfers in my area have been priced out and courses just cater to travelers and snowbirds who pay exorbitant rates to fill tee sheets without batting an eye.
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I get it. I’m one of those snowbirds in Florida and I have several other buddies from MN that all have private golf club memberships back home for the summers. They all choose to not play more than 3-4 times a month during their time in Florida because the greens fees are too high for the quality of the courses. Many of us would also get private memberships in SW Florida if we could find one that is a decent value within 30 minutes. By that I mean something with an initiation fee under $50k and dues under $17k/year.

It’s makes more financial sense for me to play 10 or so private rounds a year as guest of one of my neighbors and another dozen or so public course rounds. All of my neighbors and buddies who belong to private courses down here joined 5+ years ago before the initiation fees went sky high. A couple of them paid $20k or less many years ago at a club that now charges $200k for the initiation fee that has zero equity.
 
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It’s an expensive game.And when you find inexpensive golf your going to run into many other issues.You can have faster play and good conditions.But it will come at a price
 
I live in NY (Westchester ) and there are like 15-20 courses less than 45 minutes away that are all less then $75 to play. Many are in the 35-50 range
 
pinger_72 said:
I live in NY (Westchester ) and there are like 15-20 courses less than 45 minutes away that are all less then $75 to play. Many are in the 35-50 range
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Glad to hear it. I lived in Rockland County for most of my life but moved to NC in 2015. Haven't been back. Been wondering how (golf) things were going back home.
 
I'll stay in MI. Great golf at good prices. Great fishing.
Brutal winters to keep the riff-raff in the sunbelt with their little Toyota econoboxes. We average 12' of snow per year at the cottage which will be the retirement home when I get around to retiring again.
 
aloha_from_bradley said:
To follow up on a few points without multi-quoting.

1. No, I'm not exaggerating. What I stated in my original post is accurate.

2. I don't have the room to set up an indoor simulator.

3. I understand that equipment can be found on the used market. My point is that by fitting a new club properly, with the appropriate shaft for your swing, prices have skyrocketed.

4. Golf has not slowed down in the Phoenix Valley, at all. If anything, it's become more difficult to play. Yes, there are several factors. Snowbirds, Covid, weather, golf trips, WMPO, Barret Jackson, etc. The problem is, it just stays that way and doesn't slow down until the summer when temps are too high to play. You can get out before the 7 o'clock hour, but the courses aren't in the best shape and the competition is even stiffer. Everyone wants to beat the heat.

Here are some examples of tee times for this weekend.

Premium Courses:
The Phoenician - $341 (Used to be about $130)
Talking Stick - $298 (Used to be about $120) Prob deserves to be a middle tier course
Kierland - $313
TPC - $551
Troon - $443

Middle Tier Courses:
McMormick Ranch - $219 (Used to be about $90)
Camelback - $299 (Used to be about $100)
Orange Tree - $192 (Used to be about $79)
Dobson Ranch - $73 (Hour from my house. Near impossible to get a tee time)
Raven Golf Club - $263 (Used to be no more than $100)

Dog Tracks:
Kokopelli - $89
Ahwatukee - $97
Bear Creek - $68

These are just some courses I plucked off of GolfNow. The afternoon times don't come down much. My home course is Verrado Golf Club. High season pricing used to be no more than about $129 for a weekend morning at the absolute peak season. At one point, it was closer to about $89. Now it's between $219 - $250 to play a round of golf out there. A twilight round, guaranteed to only finish about 9 holes still costs $99.

There are absolute dog **** options out there. 9 hole courses, places like Desert Mirage, where you can't tell the difference between the boxes, fairways, and greens. But I'm an experienced golfer who's been playing for 25 years. I'm just not settling for courses like that. End of the day, this has become too much of a challenge. When I was in high school, golf was the sport for lames. Now it's become the most popular thing around.

I've got my road bike and a couple other hobbies that have taken the front seat. Depressing, absolutely.
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This is absolutely nuts. The outrageous equipment prices can be circumvented (to a degree), but I’d quit golf too if I had to pay these green fees. Green fees here are like half that - and CAD instead of USD.
 
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