Hanging It Up

[JB]

Let me ask you a question?
Knowing what you know, and thinking growth potential and profit margins, if you had the option of buying a golf course or an indoor facility which would you choose?
I live in one of the most golf crazy areas in the country and the Top Golf and indoor facilities are booked solid every day. That goes for practice bays at places like PGASS and Golf Galaxy also. From what I see, sim golf is the wave of the future.
The only thing that might be slowing its growth right now is that a lot of older golfers ( who are still the bread and butter for most courses) aren’t familiar with or are unaware of sim golf. In a few more years, that won’t be the case and I’d be willing to wager there will be more people playing sims than actual golf courses.

Neither is the only smart answer if the goal is making money

 

[Grand Stranded]

Neither is the only smart answer if the goal is making money

You give me a facility similar to Top Golf and I’ll take my chances. I bet you would too.

 

[mancest]

where in the world are you ? I'm living in Denmark, and do not se a large price increase, other than on equipment.

Believe he is near Phoenix, AZ, USA. I am in the Bay area and the cost at my home course has gone from US$59 on the weekends to US$79... and they have not raised nearly as much as most other courses. Phoenix/Scottsdale area has become outrageous. Places I remember playing in 2019 for US$80-120 per round are now $180-250 and more premium clubs are well higher than that.

Pebble Beach is rumored to be going if not to US$1000... probably pretty dang close in 2025.

 

[JB]

You give me a facility similar to Top Golf and I’ll take my chances. I bet you would too.

No I wouldn’t.
Nor is that an indoor golf facility.

 

[lockstockrye]

I paid $3,800 this year for a family membership at the nicest public access course in the Knoxville area. It gets everyone who lives in the house all the golf they can eat and all the range time they can stomach. Carts are extra - but we walk. The facilities are quite dated - but we do not hang out there. The beer choices are dumb so I drink at home. The hot dogs are too fat - so I have an Uncrustable in the bag. We get standing tee times every Sat and Sun morning and it's no problem for the wife and I to play a date night 9 on Thur or Fri. I go there after work most days and just play practice holes until it gets dark. It's two and a half miles from my house. The course itself is very well maintained - very few complaints.

I'm technically old enough for a senior membership - which is stupid cheap - but then you are limited to M-Th before noon.

LOL///Amazing! You can barely get a 4 some at TPC Scottsdale for that right now . $600/player + forecaddie (and tip) and $20-25 drinks!

 

[oumagic]

I learned today that while some people retire to an awesome place like Phoenix, I am going to have to retire to some backwater town like Tucson if I want to afford to play golf in those golden years.

 

[PuffChippy]

Seems very location specific. The club up the street from my place in north Texas is 6 figures to join plus a couple grand a month but we also seem to have an almost limitless supply of decent $50-$60 public courses as well and it's never hard getting a weekend tee time. I don't think I've ever paid more than $100 all-up unless it was a special occasion at some place we'd never play otherwise. We played for a few days in ABQ last year and when we went to Sandia (which is a nice course IMO) they charged us $80 or $90-something for fee/cart/balls and literally apologized for it being so expensive. I would have considered it fair at twice the price.

But I feel for OP. If I had to pay what it seems to cost in Phoenix I'd be rethinking how much golf I was willing/able to play too.

 

[MrDC]

Yeah, that stinks, every area should have at least one affordable course, knowing it will be busy, but I suppose some places have no need to do that, owners have no problem cutting people out of the game because plenty can afford the premium, not good.

I'd probably quit too at those prices but here we have lots of options less than $100 and many pretty cheap to walk, so it's a good golf place to live.

Equipment is pricey but I'm of the mind that a player can use the same clubs basically forever, even wedges, and with second hand prices it's really nothing anyone should complain about, try boating or fishing to see real investments.

 

[Grand Stranded]

I have two memberships both $20,000 initiation fees were waived when I bought new properties back around 2010 when the real estate market down here was in the tank.
One is at True Blue/Caledonia and the other is in Barefoot Resort/The Dye Club.
We just got increased to $150 per month and between $35-40 depending on the course. No food or bev minimums, carts included.
Although i don’t make much use out of the True Blue/Caledonia membership, I’m making money of the property rental and I can play 6 of the best courses down here for a pretty decent rate.

 

[Grand Stranded]

I learned today that while some people retire to an awesome place like Phoenix, I am going to have to retire to some backwater town like Tucson if I want to afford to play golf in those golden years.

I honestly have no idea but I’m curious because a friend recently moved out there… is Tucson a lot cheaper?

 

[echico]

I learned today that while some people retire to an awesome place like Phoenix, I am going to have to retire to some backwater town like Tucson if I want to afford to play golf in those golden years.

I hope in never has to come to living in Tucson.

 

[martybauer31]

I totally get the frustration.... I have joined the local men's club at the closest course to me, so I get a decent discount on playing and in the restaurant and can get tee times up to 2 weeks out. The Wednesday men's league is always a solid deal so I do that every week and then once we get into the seasons up here in Washington where we get more daylight I schedule a lot of twilight rounds during the week to try and avoid the weekend crush. It's not perfect but it gets me out there, so I can try to get to 2-3 rounds a week without killing my wallet completely. As for clubs, I am definitely buying new old stock and clubs that are a generation or 2 older if need be, I try to get as much mileage as I can with my gear.

 

[oumagic]

I honestly have no idea but I’m curious because a friend recently moved out there… is Tucson a lot cheaper?

Tucson golf is a lot cheaper this time of year.

 

[collegefbfan]

Do you live in the PNW?

No, I live in VA right near the NC line. I know many think that our rain is nothing compared to the PNW. And that is true. But I swear the last two winters have been nothing but rain. We have missed more days this winter for flooding than we have snow/ice.

 

[JB]

No, I live in VA right near the NC line. I know many think that our rain is nothing compared to the PNW. And that is true. But I swear the last two winters have been nothing but rain. We have missed more days this winter for flooding than we have snow/ice.

We do a lot of THP Events in that area and have been very lucky, never a rain out at Ballyhack

 

[Gyro25]

That's a shame it's become that much more for you. While feeling some financial increase, even in NJ here it's not much more than it used to be pre COVID.

 

[Roadrunner]

I learned today that while some people retire to an awesome place like Phoenix, I am going to have to retire to some backwater town like Tucson if I want to afford to play golf in those golden years.

 

[lockstockrye]

I learned today that while some people retire to an awesome place like Phoenix, I am going to have to retire to some backwater town like Tucson if I want to afford to play golf in those golden years.

Maybe you should look into Bartlesville.

 

[JohnnyO3478]

There's a course that is completely free to play. In Sharon, Pennsylvania.

The only catch is that it is in Sharon, Pennsylvania.

I can say that 'cus I grew up there ....

... well, across the border, but same, same.

 

[mantan]

IMO, the equipment issue is totally different than green fees. Nobody needs new golf equipment. You can play great golf with used clubs. You can put together a decent bag for any budget. That's the easiest cost to eliminate.

But green fees on the opposite. It's literally the thing you need to play. I feel bad for OP. And also feel bad for people who moved to PHX to retire with a certain idea of what golf would cost that has completely been turned upside down..

 

[mtbloco]

I learned today that while some people retire to an awesome place like Phoenix, I am going to have to retire to some backwater town like Tucson if I want to afford to play golf in those golden years.

Same.

 

[BrianW]

I feel pretty lucky that in the Seattle area we have a lot of nice courses around the $50 mark. I bought new clubs this year, first since my Ping G15's in 2012. I got fitted for PXG 0211 Xcor 2 irons, a 0211 hybrid and five wood for a great price. Rounds do seem to take longer but my golf buddies and I play on Wednesdays and its not too hard to get a tee time and being a weekday cheaper. I do only play once a week at about 35 rounds a year. My retirement idea is Mesquite Nevada. Hope those courses aren't too much.

 

[tahoebum]

To follow up on a few points without multi-quoting.

1. No, I'm not exaggerating. What I stated in my original post is accurate.

2. I don't have the room to set up an indoor simulator.

3. I understand that equipment can be found on the used market. My point is that by fitting a new club properly, with the appropriate shaft for your swing, prices have skyrocketed.

4. Golf has not slowed down in the Phoenix Valley, at all. If anything, it's become more difficult to play. Yes, there are several factors. Snowbirds, Covid, weather, golf trips, WMPO, Barret Jackson, etc. The problem is, it just stays that way and doesn't slow down until the summer when temps are too high to play. You can get out before the 7 o'clock hour, but the courses aren't in the best shape and the competition is even stiffer. Everyone wants to beat the heat.

Here are some examples of tee times for this weekend.

Premium Courses:
The Phoenician - $341 (Used to be about $130)
Talking Stick - $298 (Used to be about $120) Prob deserves to be a middle tier course
Kierland - $313
TPC - $551
Troon - $443

Middle Tier Courses:
McMormick Ranch - $219 (Used to be about $90)
Camelback - $299 (Used to be about $100)
Orange Tree - $192 (Used to be about $79)
Dobson Ranch - $73 (Hour from my house. Near impossible to get a tee time)
Raven Golf Club - $263 (Used to be no more than $100)

Dog Tracks:
Kokopelli - $89
Ahwatukee - $97
Bear Creek - $68

These are just some courses I plucked off of GolfNow. The afternoon times don't come down much. My home course is Verrado Golf Club. High season pricing used to be no more than about $129 for a weekend morning at the absolute peak season. At one point, it was closer to about $89. Now it's between $219 - $250 to play a round of golf out there. A twilight round, guaranteed to only finish about 9 holes still costs $99.

There are absolute dog **** options out there. 9 hole courses, places like Desert Mirage, where you can't tell the difference between the boxes, fairways, and greens. But I'm an experienced golfer who's been playing for 25 years. I'm just not settling for courses like that. End of the day, this has become too much of a challenge. When I was in high school, golf was the sport for lames. Now it's become the most popular thing around.

I've got my road bike and a couple other hobbies that have taken the front seat. Depressing, absolutely.

The greens fees here in SW Florida during peak season have about doubled since 2019. The cheapest course that I consider playable is about $170 but many are in the $200-$400 range. None of the decent private courses are less than $100k for the initiation fee and $20k for annual dues. The best deal I’ve found is a public course, Old Corkscrew, that is $8,900 for annual dues and has a mandatory cart fee of $35/round so about $12,000 if I played 80 rounds each winter. If it was closer than 45 minutes away, I might consider it.

The price/value doesn’t make sense to me so I choose to play less golf during the winter and spend more time doing other hobbies like fishing, cycling, paddling, and walking. It is easy for me having grown up in MN/WI and having a forced golf layoff during the winter. I’ll play 100+ rounds in Minnesota during the summer and maybe average one round a week during the winter in Florida. I don’t feel like it’s any sort of sacrifice as I enjoy my other hobbies as much or more than golf.

I’m sure the greens fees drop more that 50% during the Phoenix summers so if you live there full time I’m sure you can find some great golf for under $100 and some decent courses for a lot less that that. Play during the 6 or 7 month off peak AZ season and hang it up during the winter.

 

[MtlJeff]

At one time golf was mainly for retirees, doctors, lawyers and the wealthy.

Tiger changed that for a long time but I can see golf going back to a hobby for the wealthy.

Tiger changed it for roughly 10-15 years but i believe the data supports that most of the "Tiger boom" golfers went back to their shanty's, as Shooter McGavin would say. I believe the most recent influx came from Covid as some have pointed out, but we'll slowly lose them too

I don't think you had to be as wealthy some time ago to play golf. I think it's more a perception

Nowadays, i could definitely see that. If you live in Canada right now golf is fairly cheap, however most people cannot afford homes. So even if golf costs you 5000$ a year many don't have that

 

[JohnnyO3478]

One other thing about my home course (and I suppose most other courses in the area are like this) - they are usually on the lookout for starters/rangers. Most of the ones at my course are retired fellows who put in 2 six-hour shifts per week in exchange for free golf/range time with no restrictions. One of my employees told me this morning that her retired husband just got a job on the grounds crew of a local CC - and will get free golf (probably with some restrictions - she didn't know for sure). Another fellow I play with on occaision took a job at another public access course on the other side of town - because once he retired his wife wanted him out of the house. He plays golf there every morning then man's the pro shop in the afternoons.

I'd think that in this economy in most markets deals like this are probably available.