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Jack Nicklaus vs the golf ball

Just what us hackers need, a golf ball that goes shorter!
 
Probably just trying to protect his majors legacy that he is in absolutely no danger of losing...
 
I thought this would strike up some good conversation.

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4Regal said:
I agree with Nicklaus. My averages, thru the bag, have gone UP as I've aged. That doesn't make any sense. Part of it has to do with my swing; part of it is the clubs; and a large part of it is the ball. I miss the days when a round of golf required that you use the whole bag. Oh well...Hey you kids! Get off my lawn!
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So why not move back a tee if you want to use more of your bag?
 
Is the golf ball the object of this argument because it is the easiest thing to change? So the golf ball gets changed and scaled back 20%, then what? What are the results of the change? I'd be hard pressed to say daily rounds will speed up, unless they speed up because people quit after seeing their distance get slashed by 20% overnight and courses aren't busy.

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tpluff said:
Is the golf ball the object of this argument because it is the easiest thing to change? So the golf ball gets changed and scaled back 20%, then what? What are the results of the change? I'd be hard pressed to say daily rounds will speed up, unless they speed up because people quit after seeing their distance get slashed by 20% overnight and courses aren't busy.

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Of course not, the ego of most, wont move them up a box, despite drives going shorter, right?
 
JB said:
Of course not, the ego of most, wont move them up a box, despite drives going shorter, right?
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Exactly right, if they do move up it will take a long time to break the habit. Until then, I see it as a negative.

I'm all for unique ideas to speed up the game. How about making an example on the PGA tour by enforcing rules with meaningful consequences on a consistent basis?

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I heard on PGA tpur radio they might use different golf balls based on course length? That would be a disaster imo.
 
It is funny. I was just watching the GC show "Jack". It showed highlights from his assorted majors. In 1965 he drove the ball 350 yards on 13 (?), leaving himself a 5i into the green on a par 5. Nobody was complaining about the ball when he was overpowering the course.

More to the point, we must have bifurcated rules. They can reduce driver CC size and deaden the ball all they want for the .01% of golfers that hit the ball too far.

If Jack thinks hitting the ball too far is a reason for slow play among amateurs he's senile.
 
tpluff said:
Is the golf ball the object of this argument because it is the easiest thing to change? So the golf ball gets changed and scaled back 20%, then what? What are the results of the change? I'd be hard pressed to say daily rounds will speed up, unless they speed up because people quit after seeing their distance get slashed by 20% overnight and courses aren't busy.

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There is no way rounds will speed up. People will play from the same tees. People will be hitting 5i and 6i into greens instead of 7i and 8i. Yeah, that's a recipe for speedy play ...
 
Get off my lawn Jack.

Change the ball of millions for the 1%.


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bigskyirish said:
I'll confess. Even though I truly respect Jack for his place in the game, he irritates me to no end on this issue. Take this sentence: "Nicklaus basically blamed the ball for the troubles the game faces today, from slow play and sagging participation to soaring costs to play the game." First, how does rolling back the ball so that driving distance is closer to where it was in the mid-90s speed up play? Second, it is ridiculous to say that the ball is to blame for sagging participation. Find me one person who doesn't play golf because they think that they are hitting it too far now and they yearn for the days of balls that flew 30% shorter. Third, balls that fly further can't possibly be to blame for cost. Sure, premium balls are expensive. But premium 70% balls will cost just as much as they do now, and there is a huge range of options in terms of different balls at different price levels. I also think it's complete hyperbole to say that Augusta is the only course that's not obsolete.

It all strikes me as very sour grapes. I don't find it coincidental that he started complaining about this right about the same time he stopped being one of the longest hitters out there.
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I agree, on all points! I love Jack, but I've heard enough of his whining about the golf ball.
 
Has anyone ever thought about making the pros go back to wooden woods? It works in baseball. Not sure how long OEMs could make a wooden wood go, but that would sure be interesting to see.


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I have zero issue with what Jack is saying. I’m not quite sure why so many have issue with him. We play golf today because of his actions on and off the course. You don’t have to agree with him but he does deserve some respect.
 
Wake said:
So why not move back a tee if you want to use more of your bag?
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I couldn't agree more. I'm as long or longer than I was 20 years ago but I still use all the clubs in my bag when I play at 6,800-7,000 yards.

This whole distance thing for the PGA pros has not resulted in lower scores. Golf tournaments are won by those who's flat stick and short game is on fire that particular week.

scoring-average.png
 
Rolling back the ball would basically be bifurcation even if they don't make it that way. Any company still making the old ones will make a killing and anyone who plays tournaments will have to suck it up.

I honestly don't see how shorter courses will be much faster with shorter courses. My home course is very short from the tips(6481) and it is one of the slowest around on weekends.

Now if you want to have the debate shorter balls will mean less cost per round I buy that. Less land to build and maintain will be cheaper but honestly the cat is out of the bag. Not a ton of courses are being built now and how many would actually shorten what they have. Not many imo

As far as Jack being blamed for long and hard courses I won't go there. Developers who want championship caliber courses see him as one of the main guys to go to. You build what the guy footing the bill asks for.
 
Tadashi70 said:
I have zero issue with what Jack is saying. I’m not quite sure why so many have issue with him. We play golf today because of his actions on and off the course. You don’t have to agree with him but he does deserve some respect.
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Why? Golf was around before him and will be around after him. I have no issue with him, but it’s completely hypocritical to literally have the power to make changes and not do it due to financial gain.
 
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campilobaxter said:
Can we teach professionals ready golf?
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That's the problem though....its ready golf. When your ready you play, be aware of your surroundings, and keep the flow.

Im not a speed Nazi. I don't go out there playing thinking I need to play 18 in 3 hours or im going to freak out that im playing to slow. 3 1/2 hour to 4 hour sometimes shorter rounds happen because we play ready golf. It would amaze people if ready golf was taught how much quicker people would be naturally. And still have fun!

With all that said, its hard for a 4 some of average Joes to play one of Nicklaus's coures in an average amount of time. Especially if you havnt played it before. OB, water hazards, 185+ plus approaches with the ball 1-2 ft above or below your feat all the time. They can be tough to navigate in turn slows pace of play down. THEN, you roll back the ball like hes talking his courses make it even tougher to play.

Equipment isn't the problem in my eyes
 
Bucketsofjoy said:
Has anyone ever thought about making the pros go back to wooden woods? It works in baseball. Not sure how long OEMs could make a wooden wood go, but that would sure be interesting to see.


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Actually I watched a local long drive champ hit one 340 yards with an old persimmon driver.
So I don't think that would be the answer

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golfinnut said:
Actually I watched a local long drive champ hit one 340 yards with an old persimmon driver.
So I don't think that would be the answer

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I'm sure it can still be done, but it would surely result in a decrease in average driving distance on the tour, which I think is what Nicklaus is after.


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This was on Instagram today

jack.jpg
 
I don't think what makes the game take so long is because the ball is too long. Most of what makes the game take too long takes place less than 100 yards from the hole.

Now that Jack is mostly a course designer, it almost seems like it's in his best interest to make courses shorter. 6500 yards as the accepted standard length for courses opens up more options than 7000+ yards. But on the list of people who could benefit from dialing back the golf ball, I put the average golfer at the bottom, and course architects at the top. If anything, knowing you would have to hit the shot on the screws to get the most distance possible (I presume that they would manipulate distance by making the ball much more prone to spin, among other things) would probably send even more shots into the soup, making the average duffer's round even longer than it is already.
 
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