Jordan Spieth DQ’D

[Louis_Posture]

People of all ages get a brain fart every now and then, he had one. Case closed.

My guess is that the average is probably one tournament out of 35 Tour events each year that a player is disqualified due to a scorecard error. I do not consider score keeping to be any sort of significant issue for PGA Tour golf.

 

[Cruskater]

Consider that for the Rules of Golf to be effective each Rule must be black and white, clearly defined, without ambiguity. For example, the reason the Rules do not allow relief from divots is because a divot it is impossible to clearly define or identify what is and is not a divot. In other words, a 1 day old divot looks very different from a 1 month old divot.
Regarding your twig example, basing Rules (or violations of Rules) on the impact they may have to the subsequent shot, is much too ambiguous , too much subject to interpretation.

Agree to disagree. I play golf to have fun and chase improvement. Competition does require rules I suppose. Although not pants!

 

[Louis_Posture]

Agree to disagree. I play golf to have fun and chase improvement. Competition does require rules I suppose. Although not pants!

"Fun" and The Rules is a separate subject, but I believe a good one. For example some (most) play golf without observing the Rules , including mulligans, gimme putts, improving lies etc... Others play golf with strict adherence to the Rules.
If "fun" is defined by getting satisfaction from one's game and taking pride in a score, I can see how the player observing the Rules has fun.
On the other hand, the guy taking mulligans and gimme putts and bumping the ball will probably say this is his idea of fun.

 

[tahoebum]

I don’t have a lot of sympathy. A PGA Tour round takes 5-6 hours considering the trip to the course and warm-up time. Checking and signing your scorecard only takes about 30 seconds of focus. We will see this rule cause another DQ but I bet Spieth won’t make the same mistake again.

 

[oumagic]

In case someone thinks that I change my mind because I haven’t posted the same thing this last hour, I haven’t

 

[BigMac]

The scorecards I have seen have a tear off part at the bottom where you mark your own score. You tear that off when you hand your opponent his scorecard, and you get yours. Then you compare what was scored for you with what you wrote down.

So glad you clarified, I was starting to wonder.

 

[ammac]

The scorecards I have seen have a tear off part at the bottom where you mark your own score. You tear that off when you hand your opponent his scorecard, and you get yours. Then you compare what was scored for you with what you wrote down.

This is the part of Spieth’s mistake that really shows that HE made the final mistake of not closely comparing his scores with the scores marked down by the competitor keeping his score. Possibly due to the double bogey he made on 18.

Whats equally intriguing to me is knowing who was keeping Jordan’s score? The players walked off the fourth hole and likely ask to confirm - “What did you get?” Or “You made 4 Jordan?” I searched the internet and no name is mentioned, except that he played with Cantlay and Tom Kim. Why not ask the person that kept Jordan’s score about the incident? They should face the camera and explain how they wrote down the wrong number.

 

[Nice 2]

When one finishes a round the way he did, many won’t really give a $hit about the final score or checking a card all that closely.

Jordan was as lackadaisical on checking that card as he was playing the back nine of the round. Can’t believe people don’t seem to understand that. Those guys don’t walk off a golf course in a good state of mind after shooting 40.

 

[mav52]

Interested reading this about LIV scoring.

"
"Nothing is official until that scorecard is signed despite all that technology that we have," said Bert Larson, a vice president with LIV Golf who is in charge of the scoring system. “And that still exists. That continues. However, now we’re doing it at the green."

That is where players verify each others' scores—with the help of the walking scorer—and then sign their cards before leaving the area. The scores are then recorded officially in the LIV scoring system.

Another change from other traditional scoring methods: the players are not in violation of any possible scorecard issues that are not discovered until they leave the course. Typically, once a player leaves the scoring area, his score is final.

LIV Golf is not doing this to set any scorecard trends, although if that is a future benefit, that is accepted. Given that players finish at all areas of the course, this system speeds up the process and allows for a cleaner and speedier finish.

"This is a big step," Larson said. "It might not be in the immediate future, but at some point, within the rules, as long as we’re doing it the appropriate way, scoring could become electronic. That is probably down the road.

"Still, the number in the (scorecard) box is key. We don’t expect them to total the score. We don’t ask the golfer to do math. We expect that all 18 scorers have a score and that is correct. And that is what they are signing. Is there a day where they will be looking at an electronic device and signing it that way? Maybe that’s a next step. But for what we’re doing, this is a big step for us."

 

[wadesworld]

Interested reading this about LIV scoring.



"Still, the number in the (scorecard) box is key. We don’t expect them to total the score. We don’t ask the golfer to do math. We expect that all 18 scorers have a score and that is correct. And that is what they are signing. Is there a day where they will be looking at an electronic device and signing it that way? Maybe that’s a next step. But for what we’re doing, this is a big step for us."

FYI, there's nothing in the rules which prevents all-electronic scoring. But like a paper scorecard, it has to be attested, and correct when final.

 

[mav52]

FYI, there's nothing in the rules which prevents all-electronic scoring. But like a paper scorecard, it has to be attested, and correct when final.

Correct , how well I know.

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

Consider that for the Rules of Golf to be effective each Rule must be black and white, clearly defined, without ambiguity.

Don't be daft, the Rules of Golf are nowhere close to unambiguous. If they were unambiguous the Decisions on the Rules of Golf would not be several times as long as the Rules themselves and they wouldn't need to be updated continuously.

An example of an unambiguous Rule of Golf would be "Don't touch your ball for any reason between teeing off and holing the putt".

For some reason golfers decided centuries ago they'd rather have ambiguous Rules than unambiguous ones. So that's what we have, page after page after page of ambiguity.

 

[Daluteh]

I think this rule is stupid we have tv keeping track for us why do these guys need to keep score themselves? And if they do why isn’t the caddie doing it?

That’s what I asked my fil yesterday. Feels like another good job for a caddie even if it’s only a back up.

 

[mav52]

FYI, there's nothing in the rules which prevents all-electronic scoring. But like a paper scorecard, it has to be attested, and correct when final.

They use electronic scoring today, but not at the player level. The walking scorekeeper uses the device and it uploads when they send it after each hole to the scoring trailer.

 

[Louis_Posture]

Don't be daft, the Rules of Golf are nowhere close to unambiguous. If they were unambiguous the Decisions on the Rules of Golf would not be several times as long as the Rules themselves and they wouldn't need to be updated continuously.

An example of an unambiguous Rule of Golf would be "Don't touch your ball for any reason between teeing off and holing the putt.

For some reason golfers decided centuries ago they'd rather have ambiguous Rules than unambiguous ones. So that what we have, page after page after page of ambiguity.

Please cite a Rule of Golf or two which you consider to be ambiguous

 

[Louis_Posture]

That’s what I asked my fil yesterday. Feels like another good job for a caddie even if it’s only a back up.

There is nothing against the Rules of Golf preventing a caddie from maintaining the scorecard , and some players have their caddie do just that.
And some caddies maintain a card for as you wrote, a "back up" (for confirmation if needed by the players).
Within this context the only Rule is that the player is the only one with the authority to sign and, or attest the official scorecard.

 

[Daluteh]

Please cite a Rule of Golf or two which you consider to be ambiguous

I’m not the one who posted it but what about back on pebble with the drop from last week? He walked over the place where he dropped the ball twice. Whether or not what the rule says exactly or specifically there was a great deal of debate here on what was right or wrong.

 

[ammac]

There is nothing against the Rules of Golf preventing a caddie from maintaining the scorecard , and some players have their caddie do just that.
And some caddies maintain a card for as you wrote, a "back up" (for confirmation if needed by the players).
Within this context the only Rule is that the player is the only one with the authority to sign and, or attest the official scorecard.

If my financial livelihood depended on my attention to detail, which it does for a golfer, then my caddie would be keeping a backup. Not doing so would be as irresponsible as my caddie not counting how many clubs or golf balls are in the bag. Just saying, guys like Jordan always answers questions with the word “we”. I assume professional players rely heavily on their caddies to attend to the minutiae so they can focus on playing.

 

[blugold]

It's a dumb rule, but I understand why it's in place. I don't know how it happens on the PGA Tour. I don't know how the Tour let's it happen.

 

[Louis_Posture]

I’m not the one who posted it but what about back on pebble with the drop from last week? He walked over the place where he dropped the ball twice. Whether or not what the rule says exactly or specifically there was a great deal of debate here on what was right or wrong.

That was the left side of the sixteenth hole at Pebble and Wyndam Clark was entitled to burrowing animal hole relief, which is allowed by the Rules of Golf.
However, if he intentionally matted down grass , to create a better lie for where he dropped the ball when taking relief, that is a Rules violation and subject to penalty. The key word here is "intention". Only Clark knows if he intentionally took steps on the area of ground where he planned to drop the ball when taking burrowing animal hole relief.

 

[Louis_Posture]

If my financial livelihood depended on my attention to detail, which it does for a golfer, then my caddie would be keeping a backup. Not doing so would be as irresponsible as my caddie not counting how many clubs or golf balls are in the bag. Just saying, guys like Jordan always answers questions with the word “we”. I assume professional players rely heavily on their caddies to attend to the minutiae so they can focus on playing.

On a related subject, I consider DJ's caddie to be highly responsible for DJ losing the 2010 PGA Championship. Whistling Straits has over 1000 small bunkers . Of course DJ is ultimately responsible, but if it is personal style and preference to not read Rules sheets then it is important for his (highly paid) caddie to do so. Prior to the tournament the PGA had given each player a Rules sheet.

It read:

"All areas of the course that were designed and built as sand bunkers will be played as bunkers (hazards), whether or not they have been raked. This will mean that many bunkers positioned outside of the ropes, as well some areas of bunkers inside the ropes, close to the rope line, will likely include numerous footprints, heel prints and tire tracks during the play of the Championship. Such irregularities of surface are a part of the game and no free relief will be available from these conditions."

Johnson clearly grounded his club before hitting his second shot well left and short of the green. At the time, he thought he needed to get up and down for a par and victory. As it was, he barely missed the par putt and settled for a bogey that would have put him in a three-hole aggregate playoff.

But PGA of America rules officials clearly noticed the violation and approached Johnson before he even left the 18th green.

"We made it the No. 1 item on our local rules sheet simply to explain that all of the bunkers that were designed and build as sand bunkers on this golf course would be played that way," said Mark Wilson, co-chairman of the PGA of America rules committee.

Asked if he felt the rule was fair, Wilson said: "One thing that is true about the game is that generally speaking a principal of the game is to play the ball as it lies and play the course as you find it. ... This is a unique course with unique characteristics and I think the dilemma is ... that it's even harder to say some of these are not bunkers and some of them are because then how do you define those?"

Unfortunately for Johnson, he didn't consult the rules sheet, nor did he give it much thought before hitting his shot. His caddie, Bobby Brown, declined to comment afterward.

 

[wadesworld]

Unfortunately for Johnson, he didn't consult the rules sheet, nor did he give it much thought before hitting his shot. His caddie, Bobby Brown, declined to comment afterward.

Not only were the players given that rule sheet, but it was posted in multiple places in the player locker room.

Personally, I think the PGA would have been better to declare all sandy areas as waste areas at that course, but there's not really a right or wrong. They're going to be one or the other, or sometimes a mix of both, and it's the player's responsibility to understand which and get clarification if unsure.