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Jordan Spieth DQ’D

Like everyone has said. With walking scorers and digital scores it is ridiculous to have players keep track of scores for official purposes.

I do like the taxes comment! If this was the Joe Schmo tournament at your club with no scorers or scoreboards, then sure keep each others scores.

I also don't understand why they can't correct you if they know the official score or why you can't ask what you got on a hole you are having difficulty remembering.

I think it is a big loss for the tournament. Funny with his SSG and PFF comments which I will admit turned me off a bit as I was previously a pretty big Jordan fan. I probably would have walked out of the scorers tent and called Greg Norman to see how they handle scoring on LIV! At least there is a "big name" in Cantlay playing well.

No Tiger, No JT, No Jordan, No Rahm, No DJ. Why should I watch? If I wanted to see players miss fairways and then have approach shots bounce over tiny greens or 4 putt like Scheffler I'd set my camp chairs up at my local public course. Do I want a -30 under birdie fest? Not necessarily but not entertaining for me this week or the last few. Too bad no LIV this week.
 
AuzzieMatt said:
A rule is a rule, but how can you and your caddie not be able to see the score you wrote for that hole was wrong?
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jdtox said:
I think this rule is stupid we have tv keeping track for us why do these guys need to keep score themselves? And if they do why isn’t the caddie doing it?
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War Eagle said:
I've always wondered why the Caddie doesnt keep score, or at least keep a separate card to compare them to. I can understand losing track of stroke when you shoot a 150, but playing par or better golf and the most having -1 or +1 stroke to a hole is just stupid to mess up.
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Some players involve their caddie with maintaining a scorecard and, or checking a card. Other players prefer to do it themselves and not involve their caddie.
Either way, it's an integral part of the game that a player (or his caddie) maintain the scorecard for a playing competitor. Remember, this duty is more than just the scorecard, the player is also responsible for communicating (to the competitor who has his card) any relief he is seeking, penalty shots incurred, declaration of provisional shots etc..
 
mantan said:
But the whole official scorecard ritual is antiquated when you have live scoring provided by the PGA and officials keeping/posting the score on the course/TV.
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A PGA Tour event usually has on site two Rules Officials with the job of answering players questions about available relief, making Rules decisions, maintain pace of play etc...
 
BigMac said:
The thing is, this isn't rocket science. There's a thread here on THP from a guy who designed Squabbit, a free app for keeping score in tournaments, and it works great. It can create/live update a leaderboard, and keeps track of all kinds of things even beyond what the Tour would need (skins, etc.). With all the PGA Tour's money and access, it wouldn't be difficult at all for them to find a developer who could code what they need to bring their scorekeeping beyond the 19th century.
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Having electronic scoring doesn’t obviate the requirement for the player to be responsible for a correct score or the penalty for turning in an incorrect score. So other than avoiding a piece of paper, what would be the benefit?
 
wadesworld said:
Having electronic scoring doesn’t obviate the requirement for the player to be responsible for a correct score or the penalty for turning in an incorrect score. So other than avoiding a piece of paper, what would be the benefit?
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The benefit would be not DQ’ing PGA professionals for making a scoring error after that round is over and every shot was on television or seen by others.

I think the player could tell an official scorekeeper what they had on every finished hole before teeing off on the next. Or the scoring official could ask them before teeing off: “Jordan, did you have a 3 on that hole?”

Signing scorecards in a tent after the round is fine for non-professional tournaments with sponsors, television, gambling, etc.

Again, I believe Jordan made a mistake and should have been DQ’d yesterday.
 
oumagic said:
I think the player could tell an official scorekeeper what they had on every finished hole before teeing off on the next.
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The "official scorekeeper" is a playing competitor within the pairing. Within a twosome, threesome, or foursome of Tour play there are no PGA Tour employees following each group-pairing.
 
David7 said:
So is this cheating or are we chalking this up to an innocent mistake?
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Not cheating. He realized the mistake as he left the scoring tent and DQed himself.
 
Louis_Posture said:
Caddies I remember maintaining the scorecard at tournaments were for Mickelson, DJ, Stadler and Daly.
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Oh so not current. Got it, it read like current so was curious
 
Keep the cards, embrace tradition, pay attention to what in the hell you're doing.
 
It certainly wasn't cheating. With all the aforementioned walking scorers, electronic real-time score tracking plus being (if you are Jordan Spieth) on camera virtually every shot it's simply not possible to get away with just sneaking a 3 onto the card when you made 4.

So it was a mistake. Seems to be a mistake a lot of players make once at some point in their career. Even highly paid professionals are not perfect.
 
Sounds like Kim may have walked away and assumed Jordan made that short putt for par.
 
Louis_Posture said:
The "official scorekeeper" is a playing competitor within the pairing. Within a twosome, threesome, or foursome of Tour play there are no PGA Tour employees following each group-pairing.
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You don’t need to explain to me how it works now. I am saying that it should change. They could have someone at HQ with a satellite feed counting every stroke and oscillation of the ball. I don’t care. I am just sick of seeing people DQ’d on the professional men and women’s tours for brain farts and not purposefully cheating.
 
Roberto De Vicenzo's 1968 Masters Tournament story:

De Vicenzo had bogeyed the 18th hole again, this time, he thought, costing himself the Masters. He walked dejectedly to the scorer's table, which was located 40 feet or so behind the 18th green. Hiram C. Allen Jr., a well-liked Augusta member without any rules experience, sat at this round umbrella table, out in the open, with no privacy. There were a couple of empty chairs, with a jostling gallery an arm's length away.

Aaron took out De Vicenzo's scorecard and marked down a 4 on 17 and a 5 on 18 and slid it across the table toward him. De Vicenzo slumped in the chair, staring at his card. Aaron remembers looking up a couple of times from checking his own card to see that De Vicenzo was not examining his own. Just then another man in a green coat came up and said, "Roberto, they'd like to see you in the pressroom." De Vicenzo picked up a pencil, scrawled his name on the card, stood and walked toward the clubhouse.
Aaron remembers checking his card "seven or eight times" before handing it over to the official, only then noticing that De Vicenzo's card was still lying on the table. "I picked it up and immediately realized the mistake I had made," says Aaron, who pointed out to the scorer that De Vicenzo had signed an incorrect card, that he had made a 3 not a 4 on 17, that he had shot 65 not 66. De Vicenzo was summoned back from the pressroom. Ike Grainger, the co-chairman of the rules committee, was called to the 18th green to deliberate.
Grainger, now 98 years old, recalls the scene precisely. "People all around were wondering what the hell was happening," he says. "I remember Aaron expressing great regret and Roberto holding his. head in his hands. I knew what the ruling had to be. Every competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned shall stand. But I wanted Roberto and everyone else to know we were giving him every benefit of the doubt."
Grainger left the table and walked to the Butler Cabin, where Masters chairman Cliff Roberts was waiting to present the green coat to the winner. Then Grainger and Roberts walked over to the Jones Cottage, where Bobby Jones sat in a wheelchair. "What's the trouble?" said Jones, and Grainger told him. "There's nothing that can be done about it?" asked Jones. Grainger said no and Jones said, "Ike, I agree with you."

Grainger then walked back to the scorer's table and delivered the verdict to De Vicenzo, who accepted the news with equanimity. "It is my fault---'nobody else," he told the press a few minutes later. "I have played golf for many, many years. I have signed many cards and none of them wrong. All I can say is what a stupid I am to be wrong in this wonderful tournament."
 
Amazed how many people feel strongly about players keeping each other's scores in the age of technology and shotlink. Seems rather backwards to me. I like the idea of consulting with scorers on every hole if required to keep a card. I know without Arccos I'd have no idea what a shoot sometimes and I'm pretty notoriously bad at math. I'd let my caddie handle it anyway since mentally I don't like to know my score
 
Cruskater said:
Amazed how many people feel strongly about players keeping each other's scores in the age of technology and shotlink.
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Again, the duty of a player includes communicating to the competitor who has his scorecard any relief he is seeking, penalty shots incurred, declaration of provisional shots etc.. It's part of the game and protecting the field, so much more than just maintaining a scorecard.
 
Louis_Posture said:
Again, the duty of a player includes communicating to the competitor who has his scorecard any relief he is seeking, penalty shots incurred, declaration of provisional shots etc.. It's part of the game and protecting the field, so much more than just maintaining a scorecard.
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But all of the aforementioned notices can clearly be done and told to the competitor without having to keep each other's scores. To be honest I would get rid of the requirement to inform competitors about relief and rulings and just have players talk to rules officials or use video review (like in an NFL game) to see where a ball crossed a hazard, etc. If a player wants to consult a competitor about a ruling to get his opinion it could be permissible under my rules but would still slow down pace of play. Having a rules official and video replay on every hole might cost the tour more but would save greatly upon time.

In the end I really don't care as I will never be on tour and don't keep score anyway half the time. It is the PGA Tour's loss! And yes I feel terrible for De Vicenzo and would retroactively consider him a Masters' champion.
 
Cruskater said:
Amazed how many people feel strongly about players keeping each other's scores in the age of technology and shotlink. Seems rather backwards to me. I like the idea of consulting with scorers on every hole if required to keep a card. I know without Arccos I'd have no idea what a shoot sometimes and I'm pretty notoriously bad at math. I'd let my caddie handle it anyway since mentally I don't like to know my score
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I'm amazed how many are completely ignoring that no electronic ball spin monitor, walking score keeper, or caddie can see 100 different events that could impact what score a player made...and hopefully recorded correctly. Was that a stone or dirt he cleared, did he ground his club in that trap, did he pull the wrong ball out of his pocket after marking on the green...in golf, professional golf, a player holds himself to the rules and keeps his score. I don't care what technology comes along, a pro isn't going to blindly sign whatever score it spits out. He's going to check it and will still be the final word. Are we going to not penalize a player if he let's it stand when the system missed two strokes?
 
I wonder how much emotional attachment there is with the player ..

And relative response of the answer?
 
zengineer said:
I'm amazed how many are completely ignoring that no electronic ball spin monitor, walking score keeper, or caddie can see 100 different events that could impact what score a player made...and hopefully recorded correctly. Was that a stone or dirt he cleared, did he ground his club in that trap, did he pull the wrong ball out of his pocket after marking on the green...in golf, professional golf, a player holds himself to the rules and keeps his score. I don't care what technology comes along, a pro isn't going to blindly sign whatever score it spits out. He's going to check it and will still be the final word. Are we going to not penalize a player if he let's it stand when the system missed two strokes?
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Yes if there is an error don't penalize the player for a tech error. If the game is about honor than why should I care if my competitor moves a loose impediment behind his ball. Different they really care look at the tv cameras or the walking scorers. Many of the rules cited such as your ball moving a fraction of a centimeter while you remove a twig...are stupid in my opinion because they have zero impact on the play. If a ball moves slightly while moving the twig, how does that impact my next shot?

I actually left a round playing with a pretty haughty guy who pointed out rules infractions to everyone in our group on an otherwise beautiful day at our local course. I politely reminded him we weren't playing in a tournament and I would focus on my own game and he could do the same to his own. After about the fourth time, maybe for my wedge grazing the sand in the bunker before my shot and his deciding to let me know during my backswing, I accidentally bladed the ball over the green and had it with him. Thanked him for my round and walked off. Few minutes later I was joined in the clubhouse by the other two sane people in the group, one of whom plays regularly on that day and thanked me for finally standing up to the guy in question. Last fall I saw him out playing...by himself.
 
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Et Tu Brute? said:
It certainly wasn't cheating. With all the aforementioned walking scorers, electronic real-time score tracking plus being (if you are Jordan Spieth) on camera virtually every shot it's simply not possible to get away with just sneaking a 3 onto the card when you made 4.

So it was a mistake. Seems to be a mistake a lot of players make once at some point in their career. Even highly paid professionals are not perfect.
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People of all ages get a brain fart every now and then, he had one. Case closed.
 
Cruskater said:
If a ball moves slightly while moving the twig, how does that impact my next shot?
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Consider that for the Rules of Golf to be effective each Rule must be black and white, clearly defined, without ambiguity. For example, the reason the Rules do not allow relief from divots is because a divot it is impossible to clearly define or identify what is and is not a divot. In other words, a 1 day old divot looks very different from a 1 month old divot.
Regarding your twig example, basing Rules (or violations of Rules) on the impact they may have to the subsequent shot, is much too ambiguous , too much subject to interpretation.
 
BigMac said:
Except that pros don't mark their own scores. Your opponent/fellow competitor marks your scorecard and you mark his. It's your responsibility after the round, when your opponent/fellow competitor gives you your scorecard, to ensure that your scorecard is correct before you sign it and turn it in.
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The scorecards I have seen have a tear off part at the bottom where you mark your own score. You tear that off when you hand your opponent his scorecard, and you get yours. Then you compare what was scored for you with what you wrote down.
 
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