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long baller observations

bogey_russ

bogey_russ

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first things first... i am definately not a long baller... if my teeshot makes it to 230 im pretty happy even if it rolled all the way there... downhill

i know a few long ballers... my brother and my cousin being a couple of them... heck i know this girl that plays in our blitz that hits her teeshot 20yds farther than i do...

i dont know if this is true... but ive made a few observations about ppl that can hit the ball really far... especially after watching goydos win...

most of them are either really tall... or really big... or a combo of both...

guys on tour bag on anthony kim being a really short guy... he's 5'10... if they consider that short then most of those guys are 6' plus with ease...

so im thinking most of them dont sling off the rack standard clubs because of their height(im thinking their 8iron is as long as my 4iron... add the wingspan to that equation and no wonder a smooth tempo will carry 290 300...

knowing this makes it more impressive that ak and sadlowski (who isnt a giant) can kill balls but even they are taller than i am... im 5'9 170... my bro is 5'11 200... my cousin is 6'2 215

im feeling the odds are stacked against me in ever reaching the 300yrd mark without alot of help from the cartpath/wind/downhill/back of another guys cart...


well that was a rant... lolz... i guess im just jelly

what do you guys notice about ppl who can hit it out there?
 
superior balance, shoulder turn, and ability to use massive amounts of wristcock while closing the clubface to square
 
95% technique, 5% power.

Doesn't matter if it's kicking a football or shooting hoops or swinging a club, I'm always impressed with the effortlessness of the pro's. They make it look so easy!
 
I read somewhere that besides the vast majority most golfers averageing 100+ shots a round, most golfers average between 180-200 yards off the tee (and most think they average 240-250). I have only played with one guy who could legitimately drive the ball over 240 consistantly. He is about 5'10" and pretty skinny. So I think its right to say technique has a huge impact, flexibiliy is also probably more important than power, they guy I played with could rotate waaaaay back and still come through with a nice controlled swing.

I am driving my very best right now- and I max out at about 210-220. I play with some guys who say they can drive it 250, 270, and more. They out drive me for sure (when they are straight) but I have yet to see any of them come close to hitting over 250. Watching them, I can see they don't have the kind of rotation that the other guy has- and they clearly don't have the same kind of control. When they do bomb one its usually a massive slice- good on a dogleg, but mostly just a dog.

Funny thing is, they will say "wow you hit that at least 240!" when I hit a drive. But I am sure its never more than 220.

Flexibiliy and technique are the keys I think.
 
TwoSolitudes said:
I read somewhere that besides the vast majority most golfers averageing 100+ shots a round, most golfers average between 180-200 yards off the tee (and most think they average 240-250). I have only played with one guy who could legitimately drive the ball over 240 consistantly. He is about 5'10" and pretty skinny. So I think its right to say technique has a huge impact, flexibiliy is also probably more important than power, they guy I played with could rotate waaaaay back and still come through with a nice controlled swing.

I am driving my very best right now- and I max out at about 210-220. I play with some guys who say they can drive it 250, 270, and more. They out drive me for sure (when they are straight) but I have yet to see any of them come close to hitting over 250. Watching them, I can see they don't have the kind of rotation that the other guy has- and they clearly don't have the same kind of control. When they do bomb one its usually a massive slice- good on a dogleg, but mostly just a dog.

Funny thing is, they will say "wow you hit that at least 240!" when I hit a drive. But I am sure its never more than 220.

Flexibiliy and technique are the keys I think.
Click to expand...

I would love to see where the stats came from.

As for the reason. There are many, but technique is the biggest factor. Then you have optimum launch angle and spin. People overlook this so much its crazy. WHy not get fit for a new driver if it is only going to make you better? The reason we hear most of the time is they are embarrassed about their golf swing to get fit. Its a shame, but we definitely understand it.
 
JB said:
As for the reason. There are many, but technique is the biggest factor. Then you have optimum launch angle and spin. People overlook this so much its crazy. WHy not get fit for a new driver if it is only going to make you better?
Click to expand...

Agree on the technique. I have played in pro-ams with touring pros and have been live at tour events. Many of these guys are smaller than you think and they are just that good. I played with a guy in one that was maybe 5' 9", 160 lbs or so. He could hit the ball a ton, and didn't swing that hard either.

I know driver fittings can be a big help, but what you have to realize, is that it isn't available for most people. The resources just are not there in every area. To the best of my knowledge I don't think there is a launch monitor anywhere in my area, let alone someplace to get fit. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can with what we have to work with.
 
StLCardsFan said:
Agree on the technique. I have played in pro-ams with touring pros and have been live at tour events. Many of these guys are smaller than you think and they are just that good. I played with a guy in one that was maybe 5' 9", 160 lbs or so. He could hit the ball a ton, and didn't swing that hard either.

I know driver fittings can be a big help, but what you have to realize, is that it isn't available for most people. The resources just are not there in every area. To the best of my knowledge I don't think there is a launch monitor anywhere in my area, let alone someplace to get fit. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can with what we have to work with.
Click to expand...

Really? I think for MOST people, fittings are available if they look properly. I know of atleast one fitter in every single large market in the US. Usually they have many. While some smaller markets are late to adjust, keep in mind that many teaching professionals can do fittings as well. So for MOST people, I believe it is available with some due diligence.

Its funny you say that about the size of the guys, because the last two PGA events we have been to, GG has made it a point to say that the guys were bigger than she thought. Most seem at my height or bigger (6') and she could not get over that so many were as tall as they were. She talked about that on our Doral radio show.
 
One thing I want to add is something I have said before. Golf seems to be the only sport in which amateurs constantly compare themselves to the professionals. We dont often say, we can dunk like Lebron, or shoot like Reggie Miller. We dont say we can hit like A-Rod or throw like Randy Johnson. Yet in golf we are always searching to be able to play just like the pros. I think many look at them as non-athletes and just good at what they do. Rather than the fact that they are so over the top great, that we as amateurs can only dream of playing like that.
 
Frank Thomas, who used to be the "technical director" of the USGA has stated that the average male golfer drives the golf ball about 197 and the average score is around 100...despite all the advantages of technology.

Golf courses are way too long for the average golfer and should be set up in such a way that the average golfer has a chance to hit a GIR with a mid-iron at least.

My son and I were at the range last week and the guy next to us hitting balls was an LD staffer for Cobra/Pinnacle. I've never sene a golf ball go so far, not to mention what he could do with a one iron. Oy vey!
 
TwoSolitudes said:
I read somewhere that besides the vast majority most golfers averageing 100+ shots a round, most golfers average between 180-200 yards off the tee (and most think they average 240-250). I have only played with one guy who could legitimately drive the ball over 240 consistantly. He is about 5'10" and pretty skinny. So I think its right to say technique has a huge impact, flexibiliy is also probably more important than power, they guy I played with could rotate waaaaay back and still come through with a nice controlled swing.

I am driving my very best right now- and I max out at about 210-220. I play with some guys who say they can drive it 250, 270, and more. They out drive me for sure (when they are straight) but I have yet to see any of them come close to hitting over 250. Watching them, I can see they don't have the kind of rotation that the other guy has- and they clearly don't have the same kind of control. When they do bomb one its usually a massive slice- good on a dogleg, but mostly just a dog.

Funny thing is, they will say "wow you hit that at least 240!" when I hit a drive. But I am sure its never more than 220.

Flexibiliy and technique are the keys I think.
Click to expand...

Are you being serious when you say that you haven't ever played with anyone who has hit 250+? I find that pretty hard to believe. My experiences are pretty much the opposite.

I played in a foursome on Saturday and every one of the guys could go 250+ pretty consistently. In fact, there was a par 4 that is about 330 yards downhill, would probably be about 290-300 if it was straightened out, and all of our tee shots were either right in front of the green (2), right beside the green (1), or over the green (1). That's not surprising for the one that went over though, he also landed (in the air) his drive on the green on a par 4 that is about 315. Unbelievable power.
 
Outside of pro tournaments I have only witnessed one person actually hit a 300+ drive in the ten years I've been playing this game, he drove the green on a short par 4 (322yds.) at our local track, said he was going to do it and backed it up... I play with several golfers who can put it out there 240 -260 yards and to be honest I don't think they can really take advantage of that additional distance off the tee... it just doesn't translate into lower scores unless you have some other part of your game to back it up. I fit into that "average" range distance wise, I'm 5'10" 165lbs and 200-220 is my average drive and I stopped worring abouth that along time ago... a solid and dependable short game is far sexier and more profitable. Alas that won't stop your buddy that you just beat by 6 strokes from telling you and anybody within earshot "Yea... but I out drove you on every hole."
 
puttingfordough said:
Outside of pro tournaments I have only witnessed one person actually hit a 300+ drive in the ten years I've been playing this game, he drove the green on a short par 4 (322yds.) at our local track, said he was going to do it and backed it up... I play with several golfers who can put it out there 240 -260 yards and to be honest I don't think they can really take advantage of that additional distance off the tee... it just doesn't translate into lower scores unless you have some other part of your game to back it up. I fit into that "average" range distance wise, I'm 5'10" 165lbs and 200-220 is my average drive and I stopped worring abouth that along time ago... a solid and dependable short game is far sexier and more profitable. Alas that won't stop your buddy that you just beat by 6 strokes from telling you and anybody within earshot "Yea... but I out drove you on every hole."
Click to expand...

I am not saying that driving the ball 300+ is the holy grail in golf, and there is no doubt which I'd rather have (the short game). Unfortunately for me, I haven't developed that great short game up to this point. I do have the size required to hit the ball though (6"2 - 230 lbs.), and that combined with years of working out have helped me to hit my driver a pretty good distance.

You are perfectly correct in saying it doesn't always translate to lower scores though. After he drove that 315 yard par 4, he 3 putted for par.
 
In my experience (which is limited mind you) I think most young, semi-serious golfers can hit the ball 250+ I really don't think that height is required to bomb a ball. Camilo is 5'9" and can crush a ball. Also, I have personally seen JB hit a ball 300 yards because he was in a fairway bunker that was 297 from the tee (he also didn't miss a fairway that day besides the bunker).
 
puttingfordough said:
Outside of pro tournaments I have only witnessed one person actually hit a 300+ drive in the ten years I've been playing this game, he drove the green on a short par 4 (322yds.) at our local track, said he was going to do it and backed it up... I play with several golfers who can put it out there 240 -260 yards and to be honest I don't think they can really take advantage of that additional distance off the tee... it just doesn't translate into lower scores unless you have some other part of your game to back it up. I fit into that "average" range distance wise, I'm 5'10" 165lbs and 200-220 is my average drive and I stopped worring abouth that along time ago... a solid and dependable short game is far sexier and more profitable. Alas that won't stop your buddy that you just beat by 6 strokes from telling you and anybody within earshot "Yea... but I out drove you on every hole."
Click to expand...

You should come to the THP outing in the Fall. We saw a few 300 yard drives at the Spring outing. Heck we saw one with biggsy just about everytime he teed it up.
 
Schweitzer_07 said:
I am not saying that driving the ball 300+ is the holy grail in golf, and there is no doubt which I'd rather have (the short game).
Click to expand...

This is the best part of golf. I spend most of my practice time on the chipping range and putting in my house.
 
JB said:
Its funny you say that about the size of the guys, because the last two PGA events we have been to, GG has made it a point to say that the guys were bigger than she thought. Most seem at my height or bigger (6') and she could not get over that so many were as tall as they were. She talked about that on our Doral radio show.
Click to expand...

yeah ive been to a few tournaments and these guys are monsters... none of the guys that walked past me and my brothers were shorter than 6'... they are big guys...

so this kinda goes along my original post that most guys i know that can hit the ball really far... are pretty tall/big... add a great technique and bombs away...

ive been told i have a great technique... yet on a warm windless day 250 is the utmost i can poke it... thats including roll
 
JB said:
One thing I want to add is something I have said before. Golf seems to be the only sport in which amateurs constantly compare themselves to the professionals. We dont often say, we can dunk like Lebron, or shoot like Reggie Miller. We dont say we can hit like A-Rod or throw like Randy Johnson. Yet in golf we are always searching to be able to play just like the pros. I think many look at them as non-athletes and just good at what they do. Rather than the fact that they are so over the top great, that we as amateurs can only dream of playing like that.
Click to expand...

Great point. The gap between the pros and even 'decent players' is still huge and growing I think.

Those stats you asked about are found in a few places:

http://www.intotherough.co.uk/golf-features/average-driving-distance/

"A study from growingthegame.org demonstrated that the average drive for a 90-95 scoring male golfer is just 192 yards. For women scoring 95-100, the figure is 145 yards."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_5_54/ai_101967369/

"Although definitive research is scarce, Golf Digest surveys show that the average golfer's driving distance increased from 193 to 205 yards in the last decade. In the same period, PGA Tour distances increased almost 30 yards. Even these numbers for average golfers may be generous because a test of Golf Digest Schools students in March still showed only a 195-yard average."

http://www.popeofslope.com/downloads/therealdifference.pdf (nice article showing amature (90% of us) vs. nomal pro vs. Tiger. Amature t-shots 195-210)

http://golf.about.com/od/beginners/l/blclubdistance.htm

"Here's an interesting fact: While PGA pros hit their drives anywhere from 280 yards to 320 yards on average, and LPGA pros hit their drives from 230 to 270 yards on average, most amateurs - according to Golf Digest - average somewhere around 195-205 yards with their drivers."

Heck, the back of my range is at about 190 meters (210 yards??) when I am there almost noone carries that with a driver. A few can roll it up pretty regularly, but from what I have seen a 195-200 yard average drive seems bang on for most players.

I read somewhere else that only 1% of golfers ever break 100. Only 1% of those every break 90. And only 1% of those ever break 80.
 
oh an i meant to say tim clarks win gave me inspiration(not goydos)
tim isnt a big guy and its rare for him to poke it past 300 (altho im sure he can)
 
I would love to know where they get their "testers" from.
 
TwoSolitudes said:
Great point. The gap between the pros and even 'decent players' is still huge and growing I think.

Those stats you asked about are found in a few places:

http://www.intotherough.co.uk/golf-features/average-driving-distance/

"A study from growingthegame.org demonstrated that the average drive for a 90-95 scoring male golfer is just 192 yards. For women scoring 95-100, the figure is 145 yards."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_5_54/ai_101967369/

"Although definitive research is scarce, Golf Digest surveys show that the average golfer's driving distance increased from 193 to 205 yards in the last decade. In the same period, PGA Tour distances increased almost 30 yards. Even these numbers for average golfers may be generous because a test of Golf Digest Schools students in March still showed only a 195-yard average."

http://www.popeofslope.com/downloads/therealdifference.pdf (nice article showing amature (90% of us) vs. nomal pro vs. Tiger. Amature t-shots 195-210)

http://golf.about.com/od/beginners/l/blclubdistance.htm

"Here's an interesting fact: While PGA pros hit their drives anywhere from 280 yards to 320 yards on average, and LPGA pros hit their drives from 230 to 270 yards on average, most amateurs - according to Golf Digest - average somewhere around 195-205 yards with their drivers."

Heck, the back of my range is at about 190 meters (210 yards??) when I am there almost noone carries that with a driver. A few can roll it up pretty regularly, but from what I have seen a 195-200 yard average drive seems bang on for most players.

I read somewhere else that only 1% of golfers ever break 100. Only 1% of those every break 90. And only 1% of those ever break 80.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand who they are surveying to get those stats. Anyone who has ever briefly picked up a golf club and tried to hit the ball? I can't conceive why the differences between where you live and play and where I live and play are so significant.
 
long baller observations

Off the top of my head, I have played with 7 guys who can hit it 300 plus, but most of those guys are low cappers. Those statistics just don't sound right.
 
i think in order to optimize your max length off the tee you need a couple of things:

1. a driver/shaft combo that has been fit to you
2. proper technique that allows you to maintain a decent amount of club head speed with stability
3. hitting the sweet spot consistently

most of the guys i play with easily hit the ball over 250. i only avg about 268 off the tee, which is fine with me, but i'm a big guy so i'm pretty sure that i need to work on number 3 from the list above.
 
tcalloway1 said:
i think in order to optimize your max length off the tee you need a couple of things:

1. a driver/shaft combo that has been fit to you
2. proper technique that allows you to maintain a decent amount of club head speed with stability
3. hitting the sweet spot consistently

most of the guys i play with easily hit the ball over 250. i only avg about 268 off the tee, which is fine with me, but i'm a big guy so i'm pretty sure that i need to work on number 3 from the list above.
Click to expand...

with a good number 2, number 3 will naturally follow
 
Another interesting study.....

"A 7,568-yard par-72 layout where even the PGA Tour pros scored an average of 73.3 during three rounds in '03 (the pros play one of the first two rounds on the statistically easier North Course), Torrey Pines South habitually attracts a level of play far above the publinx norm, and it did on our randomly chosen day. Data was gathered on 87 male players, who were also asked to analyze their games. (Only three women played during our test period, too small a sample to analyze and include. Sorry, ladies.) Among the 33 golfers who had a course handicap of 10 and under, seven were scratch players, helping lower the amateur group handicap to 12, well below the national course-handicap average of 17.

So how did these better-than-average amateurs fare? The average score for the entire test group was 96--24 over par--six shots worse than their reported averages. When broken down into higher handicap (over 10) and lower handicap (10 and under) players, even more major differences reveal themselves. (See accompanying diagrams for more detailed hole-by-hole analysis.)

Distance and accuracy off the tee The golfers in our test averaged 212 yards per drive on the measured holes (Nos. 4 and 9). The tour average during the Buick event was 285 yards; Woods averaged 298. So Tiger has an 86-yard head start on our players. Our 10-and-under handicappers bridge this gap by nearly a quarter, to 232 yards, trailing Tiger by 66 yards. Woods' driving accuracy at Torrey Pines in '03 was subpar (48.2 percent; the tour average was 66.2 percent). Tiger made up for it with his approaches, hitting 73.6 percent of greens in regulation, against the field's 64 percent. On the year, Woods hit 62.7 percent of fairways (ranking 142nd in driving accuracy) and reached 68.6 percent of greens in regulation (26th).

The difference in driving accuracy between our higher- and lower-handicap players was fairly small, 44 versus 40 percent, on the two longest measured holes.

One of the most telling numbers was how dramatically the amateur players inflated their driving distances. The lower handicappers claimed their average drives went 247 yards, while driving-distance stats taken on two holes documented an average of 232--a 15-yard exaggeration. Higher handicappers claimed a driving average of 227 yards and, in actuality, hit it 198 yards--a 29-yard lie of the mind.

Many conclusions can be drawn from this data, but the hard lesson on this aspect: The worse the players, the more they kid themselves about how good (and long) they are. Nobody wants to admit he drives the ball less than 200 yards. Succumbing to self-delusion, it seems most amateurs tend to equate their best drive with their average drive.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_3_55/ai_114373184/
 
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