NBA 2020-2021

[tequila4kapp]

Respectfully any list has LBJ number one is not noting he could not even lead LAL to playoffs a year ago. Giannis and Leonard both far better IMO and AD the real MVP of the Lakers needs to be above him.

I’ve never been a huge LBJ fan. Not sure how to explain it, he just doesn’t do it for me. But having watched him a lot the past two years - which I didn’t do when he played in the east - And considering his career numbers and achievements, I think it’s silly not to have him as at least the 2nd GOAT behind MJ. There is no objective way to have Giannis or Leonard ahead of him, IMO.

It’s difficult to blame LBJ for his first season with the Lakers. Magic tried to zig when everyone else zagged by having a roster full of slashers and passers (on the premise nobody could out space and out shoot GS). That was a terrible roster. Somehow LBJ had them in the mix for a playoff spot until he got hurt. I doubt anyone else could have done more than that.

 

[tequila4kapp]

In today’s NBA, rings mean everything. If, Harden wants to win a championship, he may need to understand that he is not going to be the first and only offensive option on a team.

It’s funny how things go. Earlier in his career Harden already was on a team with two other superstars but he wanted out so he could get his. Now that he’s put up numbers he wants the roster makeup he used to have. I don’t see how anyone can give up the assets Houston is going to demand and still be a legit contender.

 

[Tenputt]

In today’s NBA, rings mean everything. If, Harden wants to win a championship, he may need to understand that he is not going to be the first and only offensive option on a team.

Not sure he can do that. He could not co-exist with multiple “stars” brought in to help him lead the team. Of course, Dwight Howard was fading, but Harden specifically asked for him. They had conflict. The CP3 and he fought. Finally, although there are no rumors of conflict, Westbrook definitely wanted out. I agree with you. Harden likes to be a one man show. That never wins at the highest level and never has.

 

[Bernoulli]

Not sure he can do that. He could not co-exist with multiple “stars” brought in to help him lead the team. Of course, Dwight Howard was fading, but Harden specifically asked for him. They had conflict. The CP3 and he fought. Finally, although there are no rumors of conflict, Westbrook definitely wanted out. I agree with you. Harden likes to be a one man show. That never wins at the highest level and never has.

Not that it’s going to happen , but I can’t wrap my arms around him going to Nets ( one of the teams that had been mentioned as a possible trade destination). It’s not like KD and Kyrie are going to stand aside and have Harden play his normal style.

 

[Tenputt]

Not that it’s going to happen , but I can’t wrap my arms around him going to Nets ( one of the teams that had been mentioned as a possible trade destination). It’s not like KD and Kyrie are going to stand aside and have Harden play his normal style.

Agreed. I am not even sure that Kyrie and KD can co-exist. Kyrie is a cancer, imho, and KD has too sensitive and insecure, given his immense talent. Add Harden to that mix and it could be the best reality show in all of sports.

 

[Rummpd]

I’ve never been a huge LBJ fan. Not sure how to explain it, he just doesn’t do it for me. But having watched him a lot the past two years - which I didn’t do when he played in the east - And considering his career numbers and achievements, I think it’s silly not to have him as at least the 2nd GOAT behind MJ. There is no objective way to have Giannis or Leonard ahead of him, IMO.

It’s difficult to blame LBJ for his first season with the Lakers. Magic tried to zig when everyone else zagged by having a roster full of slashers and passers (on the premise nobody could out space and out shoot GS). That was a terrible roster. Somehow LBJ had them in the mix for a playoff spot until he got hurt. I doubt anyone else could have done more than that.

Tim Duncan in his day would have definitely had same team in playoffs - befitting the highest winning percentage in NBA history. LBJ is truly great but way overrated by BSPN and is not and will not be the GOAT despite BSPN love of him. Not even greatest Laker that title will remain with Kareem. James moves to build super teams but remains 4-6 and the great most likely to pass up a game winning try when it matters and I will not even discuss the roid and HCG rumors through the years. Kareem with 6 titles, the most effective shot in NBA history, and 6 MVPs is more of a GOAT candidate then the vastly overrated James.

 

[Tenputt]

Tim Duncan in his day would have definitely had same team in playoffs - befitting the highest winning percentage in NBA history. LBJ is truly great but way overrated by BSPN and is not and will not be the GOAT despite BSPN love of him. Not even greatest Laker that title will remain with Kareem. James moves to build super teams but remains 4-6 and the great most likely to pass up a game winning try when it matters and I will not even discuss the roid and HCG rumors through the years.

So, you’re a big LBJ fan? . Just kidding you.

Do you really think that most would rank Kareem as the greatest Laker? Magic fans might have something to say. Kareem wasn’t winning any rings with the Lakers until Magic showed up. That game 6 of the finals against the 76ers, when Kareem was out and Magic stepped in, played center and scored 42 points for the win has to be one of the all time great finals performances.

 

[tequila4kapp]

So, you’re a big LBJ fan? . Just kidding you.

Do you really think that most would rank Kareem as the greatest Laker? Magic fans might have something to say. Kareem wasn’t winning any rings with the Lakers until Magic showed up. That game 6 of the finals against the 76ers, when Kareem was out and Magic stepped in, played center and scored 42 points for the win has to be one of the all time great finals performances.

In my world the GOAT rankings are MJ then Magic, except at some point numbers don’t lie and other people move up.

 

[tequila4kapp]

Tim Duncan in his day would have definitely had same team in playoffs - befitting the highest winning percentage in NBA history. LBJ is truly great but way overrated by BSPN and is not and will not be the GOAT despite BSPN love of him. Not even greatest Laker that title will remain with Kareem. James moves to build super teams but remains 4-6 and the great most likely to pass up a game winning try when it matters and I will not even discuss the roid and HCG rumors through the years. Kareem with 6 titles, the most effective shot in NBA history, and 6 MVPs is more of a GOAT candidate then the vastly overrated James.

Did you watch much of that team and those payers? Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart and Ingram were the core they tried to build around. Those guys were not ready. IMO nobody could make them a playoff team, not Duncan, not MJ, not anyone. Agree to disagree.

 

[Tenputt]

In my world the GOAT rankings are MJ then Magic, except at some point numbers don’t lie and other people move up.

The GOAT argument is always tough. Different eras, players being blessed with great teammates, etc. Does MJ have 6 championships with Pippin? I would argue not and if MJ doesn’t have 6 championships, the door opens for other candidates, including LeBron.

That being said, most rank MJ as the GOAT and I don’t see that changing, maybe ever. The second place GOAT? Wow, what a difficult choice... Russell, Magic, Kareem, LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Chamberlain? So many all time greats...

 

[tequila4kapp]

The GOAT argument is always tough. Different eras, players being blessed with great teammates, etc. Does MJ have 6 championships with Pippin? I would argue not and if MJ doesn’t have 6 championships, the door opens for other candidates, including LeBron.

That being said, most rank MJ as the GOAT and I don’t see that changing, maybe ever. The second place GOAT? Wow, what a difficult choice... Russell, Magic, Kareem, LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Chamberlain? So many all time greats...

Yep, I agree re #2. All the others listed are great but for me it was Magic and I’m grudgingly acknowledging that LBJ has taken over the spot.

 

[Stemmy66]

NBA just suspended random marijuana testing. I won't state my opinion on whether the testing should exist or not, but I struggle with anything being part of a deal in place and then removed like it was for the bubble and now this.

Because you would never have them remove things of importance on the other side.

I’d agree. I think CBO in most leagues will try to remove whether part of CBO or some other method.

 

[Tenputt]

Yep, I agree re #2. All the others listed are great but for me it was Magic and I’m grudgingly acknowledging that LBJ has taken over the spot.

If LeBron gets one more ring, he probably locks up number 2 in most minds. He almost certainly ends up the number 2 in total points and if he averages 20 for three full seasons, he will pass Kareem, and he never was thought of a shoot first guy. He was a two way player through his prime. He can play all five positions. He would have 5 rings if he gets one more.

AND, he certainly ranks number one all time as a carpet bagger, moving from team to team where there is a chance to build a super team.

 

[Bernoulli]

That game 6 of the finals against the 76ers, when Kareem was out and Magic stepped in, played center and scored 42 points for the win has to be one of the all time great finals performances.

You mean the 1980 game that was shown by CBS on tape delay other than in the LA Seattle, Portland and Philadelphia markets. The NBA’s ratings were so bad that CBS affiliates were given the option of showing the game live or showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the Incredible Hulk and Dallas (probably reruns too). Most affiliates chose tape delay. The NBA certainly has come a long way since then.

 

[Stemmy66]

If LeBron gets one more ring, he probably locks up number 2 in most minds. He almost certainly ends up the number 2 in total points and if he averages 20 for three full seasons, he will pass Kareem, and he never was thought of a shoot first guy. He was a two way player through his prime. He can play all five positions. He would have 5 rings if he gets one more.

AND, he certainly ranks number one all time as a carpet bagger, moving from team to team where there is a chance to build a super team.

If we’re talking about GOAT based on rings there is one very clear winner.... Russell! When variables change or added the discussion changes. Too hard.... scratch that.... impossible to agree who GOAT is IMO... more GOAT of their respective eras. LBJ in my mine is for his era regardless of parameters for the discussion win or lose he’s gone to 10 finals so with pretty mediocre teams

 

[Rummpd]

If we’re talking about GOAT based on rings there is one very clear winner.... Russell! When variables change or added the discussion changes. Too hard.... scratch that.... impossible to agree who GOAT is IMO... more GOAT of their respective eras. LBJ in my mine is for his era regardless of parameters for the discussion win or lose he’s gone to 10 finals so with pretty mediocre teams

He had a few mediocre teams in Cleveland but also no other great teams in East. In West he would have made 6 finals tops.

 

[JB]

If we’re talking about GOAT based on rings there is one very clear winner.... Russell! When variables change or added the discussion changes. Too hard.... scratch that.... impossible to agree who GOAT is IMO... more GOAT of their respective eras. LBJ in my mine is for his era regardless of parameters for the discussion win or lose he’s gone to 10 finals so with pretty mediocre teams

Of course it’s Russell and it’s not close. Would have had another without injury too. For those that say look at the teams, don’t follow the game and players choosing their own teammates now.

 

[Rummpd]

Of course it’s Russell and it’s not close. Would have had another without injury too. For those that say look at the teams, don’t follow the game and players choosing their own teammates now.

Salient points. Regency bias at play in the media as there were GOAT candidates pre MJ.

 

[Tenputt]

Of course it’s Russell and it’s not close. Would have had another without injury too. For those that say look at the teams, don’t follow the game and players choosing their own teammates now.

I doubt that most people on this forum have even watched Russell play, at best seen only footage. I have clear memories of Chamberlain, Havlicek, West, Reed and some others, but I cannot say that I remember seeing Russell live. His record speaks for itself.

 

[JB]

I doubt that most people on this forum have even watched Russell play, at best seen only footage. I have clear memories of Chamberlain, Havlicek, West, Reed and some others, but I cannot say that I remember seeing Russell live. His record speaks for itself.

The modern fan would never consider a dominant big man that was unstoppable on D the greatest. They are so used to seeing highlight reels after carries and travels that wouldn’t fly previously. That’s why comparing generations outside of rings is so hard. The players in today’s game have never even had to deal with hand checks let alone the physical nature of 4+ decades ago.

 

[Tenputt]

The modern fan would never consider a dominant big man that was unstoppable on D the greatest. They are so used to seeing highlight reels after carries and travels that wouldn’t fly previously. That’s why comparing generations outside of rings is so hard. The players in today’s game have never even had to deal with hand checks let alone the physical nature of 4+ decades ago.

Or even the physical nature of the MJ era. Those players beat the living hell out of each other. If you went to the hole in the ’80s/‘90’s NBA, somebody was going to try to knock you to the floor so hard, you wouldn’t want to try it again. So, modern fans say MJ would not be as good now, because he wasn’t a great 3 point shooter. Fans of the 80’s and 90’s say that MJ would score even more now because nobody could lay a hand on him now. As you say, it’s all speculation.

 

[Bernoulli]

I doubt that most people on this forum have even watched Russell play, at best seen only footage. I have clear memories of Chamberlain, Havlicek, West, Reed and some others, but I cannot say that I remember seeing Russell live. His record speaks for itself.

I can remember Russell playing as player coach at the end of his career. My sports memories go back to 1967 World Series and Super Bowl II in 1968. He was not the same player but was still a dominating defensive player and rebounder. And those Celtic Teams were still loaded with talent. I can remember the Celtics beating the Lakers in the NBA finals in 68 and 69.

 

[Rummpd]

I am 63 and I did see Chamberlain and Russell on TV face off in a game 7 and despite Wilts 35+ night I recall Russell and Celtics prevailed. I personally believe Kareem is GOAT factoring in his college and most dominant shot in history + 6 MVPs, 6 titles and scoring all time title - although LBJ will break that having skipped college. Russell, Wilt, LBJ are in group right behind M. Jordan but I value other opinions. By way will know next week whether or not the HS basketball official stuff I do will happen this year but my board just got another young ref in NBA and now has produced nine with 4 active from IABBO board 12 in DC area. I have been advising on some things might be done to allow officials to safely ref.

 

[MonroeBob1955]

GOAT discussions are fun but realistically can never be determined across generations. The game has changed so much over the last seven decades along making it impossible.

Have seen all the players discussed and they’re all standout players. The media for whatever reason loves LBJ. I think they do it to try to spark interest in an otherwise fairly boring time.

He wouldn’t stand a chance driving the middle like he does back in the 70s. He travels and palms the ball nearly every play. But that’s just me ranting. He wouldn’t make my top five because he can’t play defense.
Kareem, Wilt, Magic, MJ, Bird, Hayes, Olajuwon, Shaq, Russell. The list goes on.


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[Tenputt]

GOAT discussions are fun but realistically can never be determined across generations. The game has changed so much over the last seven decades along making it impossible.

Have seen all the players discussed and they’re all standout players. The media for whatever reason loves LBJ. I think they do it to try to spark interest in an otherwise fairly boring time.

He wouldn’t stand a chance driving the middle like he does back in the 70s. He travels and palms the ball nearly every play. But that’s just me ranting. He wouldn’t make my top five because he can’t play defense.
Kareem, Wilt, Magic, MJ, Bird, Hayes, Olajuwon, Shaq, Russell. The list goes on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Your statement is so true, except that I will quibble with the statement that LeBron can’t play defense. He is old now, but in his prime, he would lock down the other team’s best player, whether that player was 1 through 4. I don’t say that because I am a LeBron fan, either. I am not. I really hate how he invented the concept of purposefully creating super teams. It practically destroyed the ability of small markets ever to compete again for a championship. However, the dude is a monster specimen, physically, and it showed up on both sides of the floor until he was about 33 years of age.