New HC Rule, following or not?

[EaglevsFalcon]

Unless the club is the one posting all of the attested scores, this rule wont stop anything. Everybody in a group may know that a guy shot an 84, but none of them will check his ghin to make sure that he didnt post an 88 or 90 or whatever. Meaningless rule, IMO

 

[Fourputt]

It's odd that some of us who have played by the rules for decades are offended that the USGA is now telling us that it suddenly doesn't trust us? Or only trusts us only when we're playing with another homo sapien, regardless of their understanding (or lack of) the rules. Someone please explain to me why a round with a 3 year old can be posted but one alone can't. I think it's strange that you think that those golfers who play with integrity and respect for the rules of golf wouldn't be offended.

To me this makes less sense than the federal speed limit law of 55 mph and I didn't follow that law either. Hopefully the USGA will get rid of this one quicker than the 21 years it took Congress to get rid of that law.

You say you played by the rules "for decades", but if you are this upset about it, then it must not be for very many decades. Go back just 25 years and you had to return a signed and attested scorecard to whoever managed the handicaps for your club. Every single qualifying round had to be accompanied by a scorecard, and the handicap committee entered the scores, not the player. Now all they ask is that you play when accompanied by another person. No need to attest, no card to return. Seems to me like they have more faith in the integrity of the average player, not less.

It must be that they were just targeting THPers because you guys are so vocal about how you mostly hate the rules, the USGA, and anything else that tries to tell you how to play. The fact is that they actually are showing more trust in the player now than they did when I first started carrying a handicap in 1988. Even so, all of you here act like they just killed your first born child.

In this year of political upheaval, you can't find something a bit more important to bust a blood vessel over?

 

[JB]

Where did anybody say that? Its okay to disagree with a governing body when you dont agree with their actions. Be that the USGA or anything else. Why someone should not be vocal about a rule change that is ridiculous in execution (to them) because the governing body says its so would be absurd.

The irony in talking about political upheaval is hysterical though, because this is a golf forum first, and the upheaval is about a governing body and the rules they create and enforce....I mean seriously, the parallels are quite comical.

 

[blugold]

Where did anybody say that? Its okay to disagree with a governing body when you dont agree with their actions. Be that the USGA or anything else. Why someone should not be vocal about a rule change that is ridiculous in execution (to them) because the governing body says its so would be absurd.

The irony in talking about political upheaval is hysterical though, because this is a golf forum first, and the upheaval is about a governing body and the rules they create and enforce....I mean seriously, the parallels are quite comical.

If we as a public are not critical of governing bodies, then things never get changed. Somebody was critical of people submitting solo rounds, and things changed for better or worse. We have to be vocal and critical otherwise nobody will want to improve.

The USGA can kiss my ass on this one, I'll post rounds just like always.

I'm with Jman on this one. It's a ridiculous rule.

Gentleman, I will attest every one of your rounds as we are "partners"

 

[Girardcorp]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. A fellow local THPer (Girardcorp) is going to be playing every round with me and has said he will attest all of my scores. That favor goes both ways.

I stand by this statement :thumb:

 

[McLovin]

In this year of political upheaval, you can't find something a bit more important to bust a blood vessel over?

reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite comedy tv shows:

"When has voting ever helped? Who am I supposed to vote for? The Democrat who is going to blast me in the a$$? Or the Republican who's blasting my a$$."

to apply it here, now the usga is blasting us in the a$$.

we need some ice packs around here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[UVaWahoo]

I rarely if ever, play by myself, I just don't enjoy it, so this rule has little to no applicability for me. The bottom line is that the handicap system is dependent upon the honesty and integrity of the individual posting, rules or no rules.

 

[Daddio]

I'm in full agreement with most that this rule is completely ridiculous, but are you guys even being asked if it was a solo round when you post? Our handicap season started 10 days ago and i just logged in to post the two rounds I played since and the solo question wasn't even asked? There wasn't anything on my GHIN posting page warning that the rules for posting changed either, I tried hard to find it? If I wasn't on THP I probably would never have even know it was now a requirement to only post rounds played with others. Maybe it's because I don't belong to a country club but instead pay my ghin dues to the Missouri Golf Association e-club. When I posted my rounds, the only question that might somehow relate was "was this round played with another club member?" It offered me a dropdown list of maybe 15 golfers, I'm guessing fellow MoGA e-club members, non of who lived within 100 miles of me, so I didn't check the yes box. In any event my scores still posted and my trending handicap changed despite not checking the 'yes' box to that question. So far my two rounds were legal as I played each with others, but I will be violating this ridiculous rule whenever I play a legit scored solo round.

 

[tequila4kapp]

I'm in full agreement with most that this rule is completely ridiculous, but are you guys even being asked if it was a solo round when you post? Our handicap season started 10 days ago and i just logged in to post the two rounds I played since and the solo question wasn't even asked? There wasn't anything on my GHIN posting page warning that the rules for posting changed either, I tried hard to find it? If I wasn't on THP I probably would never have even know it was now a requirement to only post rounds played with others. Maybe it's because I don't belong to a country club but instead pay my ghin dues to the Missouri Golf Association e-club. When I posted my rounds, the only question that might somehow relate was "was this round played with another club member?" It offered me a dropdown list of maybe 15 golfers, I'm guessing fellow MoGA e-club members, non of who lived within 100 miles of me, so I didn't check the yes box. In any event my scores still posted and my trending handicap changed despite not checking the 'yes' box to that question. So far my two rounds were legal as I played each with others, but I will be violating this ridiculous rule whenever I play a legit scored solo round.

I re-upped with US Handicap and posted my first score of the season recently. I do not remember being asked if I played with anyone when I posted it. (FWIW, I played with 3 complete strangers. They didn't keep my score. They didn't care about my score. I seriously doubt they would have attested to my score if asked. ZERO difference if I had played by myself, yet somehow this round is legit and others aren't.)

 

[Fourputt]

Where did anybody say that? Its okay to disagree with a governing body when you dont agree with their actions. Be that the USGA or anything else. Why someone should not be vocal about a rule change that is ridiculous in execution (to them) because the governing body says its so would be absurd.

Disagreement is one thing, but doing what is essentially cheating is well beyond that. It's one thing to fudge a lie when playing a casual round that doesn't count for anything. It's another to ignore a handicap rule where the ultimate result could affect your ranking against other players in a competition. There are rules that I'm not entirely on board with, but I still follow them regardless, because to not do so would definitely put my integrity to question. As I see it, by not following this requirement, I would certainly question my own integrity.

To be honest, I don't see a pressing need for this change, but I can understand why the USGA might see a need for it for more reasons that most of you seem to be able to. For one thing, most golfers play differently when playing with others. They may tend to not deliberately fudge the rules as often if they think that someone is watching - that is just a natural human approval seeking reaction. Also, and as mentioned earlier in this thread, many players score better when they don't have the less rhythmic ebb and flow of playing with 2 or 3 other players, and that definitely can affect their handicaps.

Handicaps are intended for use in competition. When playing a competition, there will always be someone playing with you. Thus it's logical that your handicap be established under those same conditions. If you don't compete, there is really no reason to have an "official" handicap.

If the rumors I've heard are true, and the governing bodies are moving toward instituting a global handicap system, this may be part of a requirement put in by some of the other entities involved.

One more thing that nobody has mentioned that I've seen. Maybe this is seen as a way to grow the game. If you don't have any friends who play, but you want to keep a legitimate handicap, then maybe you bring a non golfing friend along and he gets interested in the game, and you just added a new player to the ranks. Who knows? :golf2:

 

[SquirrelyDave]

Disagreement is one thing, but doing what is essentially cheating is well beyond that. It's one thing to fudge a lie when playing a casual round that doesn't count for anything. It's another to ignore a handicap rule where the ultimate result could affect your ranking against other players in a competition. There are rules that I'm not entirely on board with, but I still follow them regardless, because to not do so would definitely put my integrity to question. As I see it, by not following this requirement, I would certainly question my own integrity.

To be honest, I don't see a pressing need for this change, but I can understand why the USGA might see a need for it for more reasons that most of you seem to be able to. For one thing, most golfers play differently when playing with others. They may tend to not deliberately fudge the rules as often if they think that someone is watching - that is just a natural human approval seeking reaction. Also, and as mentioned earlier in this thread, many players score better when they don't have the less rhythmic ebb and flow of playing with 2 or 3 other players, and that definitely can affect their handicaps.

Handicaps are intended for use in competition. When playing a competition, there will always be someone playing with you. Thus it's logical that your handicap be established under those same conditions. If you don't compete, there is really no reason to have an "official" handicap.

If the rumors I've heard are true, and the governing bodies are moving toward instituting a global handicap system, this may be part of a requirement put in by some of the other entities involved.

One more thing that nobody has mentioned that I've seen. Maybe this is seen as a way to grow the game. If you don't have any friends who play, but you want to keep a legitimate handicap, then maybe you bring a non golfing friend along and he gets interested in the game, and you just added a new player to the ranks. Who knows? :golf2:

Just a question, how do you justify the bolded? If you're fudging a lie, do you count that round? If you move your ball you've violated the rules, and are subject to penalty strokes, if you post your score without those strokes you've posted an incorrect score.

As to the "more likely to cheat alone" thoughts, truthfully, I play most of my rounds solo, on the rare occasions I play with someone it's a) my 9 year old who has 0 idea of what the rules are, and doesn't care, and is reading a book half of the round b) my neighbor who plays, but doesn't care in any way shape or form what the correct rules are, he's out to enjoy himself and doesn't keep a h/c, and more often than not encourages me to "cheat" or improve a lie, or just take a drop, c) some random person I get paired up with who doesn't care at all what I do as long as I keep up and don't hit them with a golf ball.

So how is it cheating for me to post a score when I've followed all of the rules? Often to the detriment of my score, but legitimate. If I'm by myself and don't play by the rules I don't post it, regardless of the score. That will happen sometimes, I'll take a drop and not count the strokes, or drop 7 or 8 balls and practice if it's slow. Those are practice rounds and don't get counted. I see no difference between playing golf with my daughter sitting in the cart, and playing by myself.

I'll say that with my handicap, I can't sandbag much, and I understand the uselessness of a vanity cap so I post accurate scores.

 

[Annhl8rX]

I use a free handicap service not associated with or approved by the USGA, so I really don't give a damn what they say. My solo scores will continue to be used.

 

[Canio]

I play solo rounds about half the time, and with others the rest of the time. I will post my solo rounds!

 

[TheHeez]

Just a question, how do you justify the bolded? If you're fudging a lie, do you count that round? If you move your ball you've violated the rules, and are subject to penalty strokes, if you post your score without those strokes you've posted an incorrect score.

As to the "more likely to cheat alone" thoughts, truthfully, I play most of my rounds solo, on the rare occasions I play with someone it's a) my 9 year old who has 0 idea of what the rules are, and doesn't care, and is reading a book half of the round b) my neighbor who plays, but doesn't care in any way shape or form what the correct rules are, he's out to enjoy himself and doesn't keep a h/c, and more often than not encourages me to "cheat" or improve a lie, or just take a drop, c) some random person I get paired up with who doesn't care at all what I do as long as I keep up and don't hit them with a golf ball.

So how is it cheating for me to post a score when I've followed all of the rules? Often to the detriment of my score, but legitimate. If I'm by myself and don't play by the rules I don't post it, regardless of the score. That will happen sometimes, I'll take a drop and not count the strokes, or drop 7 or 8 balls and practice if it's slow. Those are practice rounds and don't get counted. I see no difference between playing golf with my daughter sitting in the cart, and playing by myself.

I'll say that with my handicap, I can't sandbag much, and I understand the uselessness of a vanity cap so I post accurate scores.

He's talking about a casual or practice round that doesn't get posted. His very next sentence says, "There are rules that I'm not entirely on board with, but I still follow them regardless, because to not do so would definitely put my integrity to question."

I agree with Fourputt. These changes were put in place for the purpose of bettering tournaments (the whole point of the handicap system). If you don't use it for that, more power to you. But the fact remains that the governing body implemented a rule for score posting and those that choose to ignore the rule are playing outside of the rules. Now I completely believe that its a stupid rule, but its a rule none the less.

 

[SquirrelyDave]

He's talking about a casual or practice round that doesn't get posted. His very next sentence says, "There are rules that I'm not entirely on board with, but I still follow them regardless, because to not do so would definitely put my integrity to question."

I agree with Fourputt. These changes were put in place for the purpose of bettering tournaments (the whole point of the handicap system). If you don't use it for that, more power to you. But the fact remains that the governing body implemented a rule for score posting and those that choose to ignore the rule are playing outside of the rules. Now I completely believe that its a stupid rule, but its a rule none the less.

That makes sense then.

I understand the intent of the rule, it's just an impotent rule. There is no value to it, as has been stated before its just as easy to sandbag with other people around. Cheaters gonna cheat. Can't stop them.


Sent from the magic know everything box in my pocket

 

[Canadan]

The next time I'm a few strokes under par, I'm going to play the final hole alone.

People who are going to cheat, are going to cheat.... And I can bet decent money at my course, no one is going to be standing over anyone's shoulder while they post their scores, regardless of whether they enter their actual 75 or an 82.

 

[EaglevsFalcon]

This whole argument, I feel, mirrors gun control measures.

The rule penalizes the honest people with integrity but does nothing to stop the mentally unstable, serial cheaters.

 

[Canadan]

This whole argument, I feel, mirrors gun control measures.

The rule penalizes the honest people with integrity but does nothing to stop the mentally unstable, serial cheaters.

I'm not sure it really penalizes anyone.. If anything, it may actually be benefiting a lot of people by not having to post those scores.

 

[gizmo3putt]

I play all my rounds with someone. They may not be on the same hole but that's just a minor technicality.

Brilliant!

 

[EaglevsFalcon]

I'm not sure it really penalizes anyone.. If anything, it may actually be benefiting a lot of people by not having to post those scores.

Perhaps penalize was the wrong word choice. It certainly can skew hcaps if those rounds arent counted. To me, a legit round is a legit round, and not counting those rounds may artificially raise or lower a cap and not accurately reflect how somebody is playing going into a tournament.

I play a lot of solo rounds and if I didnt count them, my cap would be higher, which wouldnt be fair to the guys I gamble with every weekend.

 

[musicmaster6921]

I will be posting all of my rounds, solo or not. Its the only way I will be able to have an accurate handicap as i play quite a few solo rounds.

 

[rollin]

I could never view posting a score after a solo round as cheating. Cheating imo is a score affecting circumstance. Moving a ball or not couinting a penalty stroke or whatever is cheating. Playing solo is not cheating. And the things I mentioned are only working towards a vanity cap anyway and not one that of a sandbagger. A sandbagger is going to manage to do what he does especially among strangers who don't know hi nor care anyway.

 

[p3ga]

I'm with Jimmy, I find it hard to believe that they felt this was a good move. Does anyone know the penalty for posting solo rounds and then playing in USGA events with those rounds counting toward your cap![/QUOTE]


Yeah, they make you become a USGA Section leader, Chairman of the Greens committee, Rules official, or stick toothpicks in your eyeballs.

 

[rickterp]

I play as a single often, but do find myself paired up more times than not so hopefully this won't have too much of an impact on me. I do plan on playing on several of my club's tournaments this year as prep for Regional Rivalry, so I will be abiding by the rules as far as my GHIN index is concerned.

I'll be posting all my scores to the Grint as I normally do so I can track statistics.

 

[p3ga]

I play all my rounds with someone. They may not be on the same hole but that's just a minor technicality.

That's perfect.

Q: If one has schizophrenic tendencies can that individual attest to the score on the card?