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- #4,501
Man, Bert had one of the nastiest curve balls and he is a Dutchman which is pretty cool.
sure did, I think he was a very good pitcher.
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Man, Bert had one of the nastiest curve balls and he is a Dutchman which is pretty cool.
Bert Blyleven and Roberto Alomar were elected to the HOF today.
I have been debating the Robby Alomar thing for 2 days with a certain USA Today writer via twitter. He has a career 300 batting average. Never had 200 hits in a season. I think he deserves to be in but when in the world did it become hall of really good players. He had 4-5 really good years and the rest were mediocre to good. How in the world can he get in this early and Jim Rice was argued for years. Rice was the most feared hitter in the league for what was close to a decade. Alomar was a very good player, dont get me wrong, but I dont see him as greatness.
I have been debating the Robby Alomar thing for 2 days with a certain USA Today writer via twitter. He has a career 300 batting average. Never had 200 hits in a season. I think he deserves to be in but when in the world did it become hall of really good players. He had 4-5 really good years and the rest were mediocre to good. How in the world can he get in this early and Jim Rice was argued for years. Rice was the most feared hitter in the league for what was close to a decade. Alomar was a very good player, dont get me wrong, but I dont see him as greatness.
I would have put Alomar in before Blylevan. Alomar was maybe the best 2nd baseman in baseball(you can argue Jeff Kent who had more power) for a chunk of his career. From 91-2001 he won a gold glove every year except for 1. It's too bad his career ended how it did, because he would have easily passed 3,000 hits and probably 500 stolen bases(ended with 2724 and 474). Rice should have gone in earlier in my opinion. I don't like the way players are elected in to the hall of fame. Last year Alomar was 8 votes shy, this year he gets 90 percent. I think there are a bunch of players who have been inducted in the last handfull of years that don't really belong, but I would put Alomar in.
I kind of agree with you but if guys like Bill Mazeroski get in, Alomar should be a sure shot.I have been debating the Robby Alomar thing for 2 days with a certain USA Today writer via twitter. He has a career 300 batting average. Never had 200 hits in a season. I think he deserves to be in but when in the world did it become hall of really good players. He had 4-5 really good years and the rest were mediocre to good.
Im pretty sure his extra power came from his awesome mustache. I really dont think he was a juice guy but he was so outspoken against the guys who did that you never know. I think he deserves to go in on the first ballot.Kent was on the juice though wasn't he? And the press hated him so I doubt he gets in
I would have put Alomar in before Blylevan. Alomar was maybe the best 2nd baseman in baseball(you can argue Jeff Kent who had more power) for a chunk of his career. From 91-2001 he won a gold glove every year except for 1. It's too bad his career ended how it did, because he would have easily passed 3,000 hits and probably 500 stolen bases(ended with 2724 and 474). Rice should have gone in earlier in my opinion. I don't like the way players are elected in to the hall of fame. Last year Alomar was 8 votes shy, this year he gets 90 percent. I think there are a bunch of players who have been inducted in the last handfull of years that don't really belong, but I would put Alomar in.
You cant believe the gold glove plays a role can you? I mean look at the guys that win it? Heck Jeter has won it 5 out of the last 7 years. That is a farce by itself.
I think it plays a role, players like Ozzie Smith didn't get in for his bat. I can't argue that it's a great measuring stick. Heck Palmiero won a gold glove with Texas in 1999 when he only played 28 games in the field. I wouldn't have given Jeter a gold glove last season and I watched a high percentage of the games. I remember Alomar as a very strong fielding 2nd baseman.
Comparing Alomar in the field and Ozzie Smith is like comparing your FF team to bridges. Special players can get in based on fielding. To me Alomar was a very good player for a small amount of years and an above average player for the rest. But he was never a great player or a feared player.
Comparing Alomar in the field and Ozzie Smith is like comparing your FF team to bridges. Special players can get in based on fielding. To me Alomar was a very good player for a small amount of years and an above average player for the rest. But he was never a great player or a feared player.
Not too many second baseman are feared. He was an all star for 12 consecutive years. He was the best second baseman the years he played as evidenced by his 10 gold gloves and batting stats and that = HOF.
That said, I think he's a disgrace and used to be a fan until he spit on the umpires face.
I guess we just view him a little differently. To me, he passes the eyeball test. There are no doubt some players in the hall that don't deserve it, but I think he does.
wasn't ryne sandberg a 2nd basement around that time as well, and craig biggio?
Biggio yes, Sandberg was 1 generation prior.
The Hall of Fame should be a symbol of the elite. Not the darn good at their position. He was also an all star when the voting was a complete sham. But this goes back to my point, since when did the best at his position during a period mean they were in the hall of fame? The 2nd base position was for the most part a joke during that entire decade.
A second baseman is an essential position in the game and by comparison to other positions and players, they aren't elite and certainly aren't as flashy or put up great statistics. But you need them, and Alomar was a great one.
I'm not saying you are wrong about Alomar and 10% of the HOF voters from this year and 26% from last year agree with you, I just don't agree and I think the Hall got this one right.
The HOF is at a crossroads and have been since McGwire became eligible. The steroids era is going to keep many of the better players from that era out. I would love to be in the Clemens household when he isn't voted in first ballot.
I think the hall has a done good job to keep marginal players out.
Biggio will be an interesting one and I don't know if he'll get in. When I was watching Alomar play, I thought HOF, I didn't with Biggio, but he had 3,000 hits and that's as good as a guarantee. His last game was in 07, so he'll be on the one of the next two ballots (not sure when the 5 year cycle starts)
Being a feared hitter doesn't necessarily mean HOF, or at least immediate induction. Look at Jim Rice and his exclusion for 15 years and getting in on the final ballot (before having to wait for the veterans committee) will always be a head-scratcher. Was there anyone more feared while that guy was playing?
You are going to see more relievers get in. Currently only 5 (Gossage, Wilhelm, Fingers, Sutter and Eckersley) are in. Lee Smith should be one of those, but I think he is going to hang around for as many years as Blyleven did. Hoffman and Rivera will both be inducted.
The voters for the HOF do make me laugh though. Bret Boone and Benito Santiago each garnered 1 vote. I loved Santiago as a Padres fan, but HOF, must have been his cousin voting for him.
A second baseman is an essential position in the game and by comparison to other positions and players, they aren't elite and certainly aren't as flashy or put up great statistics. But you need them, and Alomar was a great one.
I'm not saying you are wrong about Alomar and 10% of the HOF voters from this year and 26% from last year agree with you, I just don't agree and I think the Hall got this one right.
The HOF is at a crossroads and have been since McGwire became eligible. The steroids era is going to keep many of the better players from that era out. I would love to be in the Clemens household when he isn't voted in first ballot.
I think the hall has a done good job to keep marginal players out.
Biggio will be an interesting one and I don't know if he'll get in. When I was watching Alomar play, I thought HOF, I didn't with Biggio, but he had 3,000 hits and that's as good as a guarantee. His last game was in 07, so he'll be on the one of the next two ballots (not sure when the 5 year cycle starts)
Being a feared hitter doesn't necessarily mean HOF, or at least immediate induction. Look at Jim Rice and his exclusion for 15 years and getting in on the final ballot (before having to wait for the veterans committee) will always be a head-scratcher. Was there anyone more feared while that guy was playing?
You are going to see more relievers get in. Currently only 5 (Gossage, Wilhelm, Fingers, Sutter and Eckersley) are in. Lee Smith should be one of those, but I think he is going to hang around for as many years as Blyleven did. Hoffman and Rivera will both be inducted.
The voters for the HOF do make me laugh though. Bret Boone and Benito Santiago each garnered 1 vote. I loved Santiago as a Padres fan, but HOF, must have been his cousin voting for him.
I agree with a lot of this biggsy, except one thing. I dont think the best at a current position during a time MUST get in. The Hall of Fame should be for the elite, the best in the game, etc...Certain positions just do not or have not had elite players (for longer than 5 years) during certain time periods.
The thing that made Alomar great was the fact the guy didn't really have a weakness other than his temper. Speed? very good. Power? for a 2nd baseman? Very good. Defense? Very good. Avg? Very good.
The guy was a 5 tool player and played 2nd base. Not many of those guys were EVER 2nd baseman. You have to go old school to really find guys that were better than him, hornsby, morgan for sure, but it gets cloudy for me after that of guys that could do it all.
so thats why he'd have my vote, nothing tops it for me more than a guy that can do everything.
Comparing Alomar in the field and Ozzie Smith is like comparing your FF team to bridges. Special players can get in based on fielding. To me Alomar was a very good player for a small amount of years and an above average player for the rest. But he was never a great player or a feared player.