Pace of play - walking versus riding

[O'Carroll]

Where cart golf slows down is what others have mentioned: when the 2 people in a cart feel like they can't function independently at all, aka the cart has to be drive to within 2 yards of each player's ball at all times and one player is "wasting" time waiting on the other player to hit. I have this issue almost every time I play golf with my dad, who rides in a cart all the time, he doesn't understand that I can just get out of the cart with a few clubs and go hit my approach shot while he takes the cart to his ball. It's the same reason why I can go out as a walker on the muni that I normally play and usually keep up with 2-3 guys that are riding in carts because they don't really know what to do in the carts.

^^^^THIS^^^^

Don't forget about the people who park the cart on the wrong side of the green and have to go back to get it after they are done with the hole.

^^^^AND SO MUCH THIS^^^^

I really think the casual golfer has NO CLUE how to get around the golf course on a cart. Park the cart 40 yards short of the green, hit your chip, walk up, three-jack, walk 40 yards back to the cart...yeah that's a good idea.

I think there should be a study done regarding how fast you can actually get around 18 holes riding in a cart if you do it right.

 

[Smallville]

^^^^THIS^^^^


^^^^AND SO MUCH THIS^^^^

I really think the casual golfer has NO CLUE how to get around the golf course on a cart. Park the cart 40 yards short of the green, hit your chip, walk up, three-jack, walk 40 yards back to the cart...yeah that's a good idea.

I think there should be a study done regarding how fast you can actually get around 18 holes riding in a cart if you do it right.

There is one. Follow JB around, hahaha.

I will point it out to people who leave their cart behind where they shouldn't. Leading by example helps too, as long as you are doing it right, of course!

 

[IceyShanks]

Geography plays a roll here too. Nobody would think that if they had to play the courses around here, where many times it can be up to a quarter of a mile between greens and tees (3 or four times a round).

There are a couple courses around here where it wouldn't really even be possible to walk, it would double the time a round would take.

 

[Paladin]

Geography plays a roll here too. Nobody would think that if they had to play the courses around here, where many times it can be up to a quarter of a mile between greens and tees (3 or four times a round).

As someone who walks a course that's laced in between backyards of a retirement community, I agree. Most etiquette aside, riders will be faster than walkers at my course simply due to the distance that's often between holes. I mean, I ruck march under load for fun. The idea of 4+ hours moving at 4+ miles per hour while carrying 45+ pounds is not something I find particularly unpleasant once a month or so. I can scoot at a pretty good clip just carrying a golf bag. But the distances between holes just make a cart much faster, let alone the course itself. If you add in any amount of ready golf or common sense, riding a cart is much faster.

 

[choppstixxx]

There are just so many variables that add up to slow play it's hard to pinpoint the end all be all of what causes it.
If the majority of people just took some time to think about their next shot/what club to use before they get to their ball, things would go a lot smoother.
Just being aware of where the group behind/ahead of you helps make your round more enjoyable.

 

[baldguy]

I don't think I would argue that a single playing on an empty course would go faster if walking. If it's very early and I'm playing by myself and need to get done as quickly as possible, I will ride. In that scenario, or really any scenario where 18 can be completed in 2.5 hours or less, pace of play is a non-issue so the point is moot. My contention is just that if you took an entire course full of foursomes of average golfers and forced them to walk one round and the next day forced them to ride, I think the pace would either be the same or the walking round would be faster. Again, assuming that the course hasn't been designed to prohibit walking.

The problem with etiquette is that there is nobody enforcing it. Even courses with rangers/marshals/greeters have major issues with poorly trained (or poorly disciplined) golfers just not caring about pace of play. If they were all walking, there would be far less opportunity for them to exercise poor etiquette (though I'm certain some would still find a way).

What really irritates me is the perception that as a walker I'm going to slow down pace. That never, ever happens. Not with me or anyone I know who walks. I don't see that perception being voiced here, but you definitely hear the grumbles on the course. I've even had a twosome of riders zoom around my walking twosome, skipping our hole to get onto the next tee... we proceeded to wait on them for the rest of the round.

 

[Mulligan9111]

There are a couple courses around here where it wouldn't really even be possible to walk, it would double the time a round would take.

Off the top of my head I can think of Iron Horse, Quarry Oaks, and Wilderness Ridge for courses that are definitely not "walker" friendly.

We have walkers and riders that play in league every Tuesday night, guess which group is always waiting on the other to get to their ball? It's the rider's that are waiting on the walker's 99.999% of the time. Facts are facts, you can drive the cart a lot faster than someone can walk.

 

[IceyShanks]

Off the top of my head I can think of Iron Horse, Quarry Oaks, and Wilderness Ridge for courses that are definitely not "walker" friendly.

We have walkers and riders that play in league every Tuesday night, guess which group is always waiting on the other to get to their ball? It's the rider's that are waiting on the walker's 99.999% of the time. Facts are facts, you can drive the cart a lot faster than someone can walk.

The exact three I was thinking of.

 

[Smallville]

I don't think I would argue that a single playing on an empty course would go faster if walking. If it's very early and I'm playing by myself and need to get done as quickly as possible, I will ride. In that scenario, or really any scenario where 18 can be completed in 2.5 hours or less, pace of play is a non-issue so the point is moot. My contention is just that if you took an entire course full of foursomes of average golfers and forced them to walk one round and the next day forced them to ride, I think the pace would either be the same or the walking round would be faster. Again, assuming that the course hasn't been designed to prohibit walking.

The problem with etiquette is that there is nobody enforcing it. Even courses with rangers/marshals/greeters have major issues with poorly trained (or poorly disciplined) golfers just not caring about pace of play. If they were all walking, there would be far less opportunity for them to exercise poor etiquette (though I'm certain some would still find a way).

What really irritates me is the perception that as a walker I'm going to slow down pace. That never, ever happens. Not with me or anyone I know who walks. I don't see that perception being voiced here, but you definitely hear the grumbles on the course. I've even had a twosome of riders zoom around my walking twosome, skipping our hole to get onto the next tee... we proceeded to wait on them for the rest of the round.

But see, what you, and a lot of other "walkers" have is the perception that a rider is automatically going to slow down the pace. And that is not true either. And you are also assuming that because someone walks they are going to be faster. There are slow walkers as well as slow riders. And fast walkers and fast riders.

And if you had to wait on two riders holding you guys up after skipping a hole to get by you, you should have called the clubhouse and had them send a marshall out. So that's kind of on you.

 

[baldguy]

But see, what you, and a lot of other "walkers" have is the perception that a rider is automatically going to slow down the pace. And that is not true either. And you are also assuming that because someone walks they are going to be faster. There are slow walkers as well as slow riders. And fast walkers and fast riders.

And if you had to wait on two riders holding you guys up after skipping a hole to get by you, you should have called the clubhouse and had them send a marshall out. So that's kind of on you.

i assumed none of those things. I'm talking about averages. Of course some people on carts can have good etiquette. And yes, I did report it to the clubhouse. I generally don't carry my phone on the course.

 

[JB]

i assumed none of those things. I'm talking about averages. Of course some people on carts can have good etiquette. And yes, I did report it to the clubhouse. I generally don't carry my phone on the course.

I would disagree with that average by quite a bit. How were the averages taken?
Each course and the golfers there would be different, but in these parts, it would not even be close.

 

[baldguy]

I would disagree with that average by quite a bit. How were the averages taken?
Each course and the golfers there would be different, but in these parts, it would not even be close.

just based on my own observations of how people conduct themselves on the course on any given day. It seems that, based on other posts in this thread, that I'm not the only one who has seen this behavior. You yourself pointed out many examples of people who do borderline idiotic things on the course regardless of the mode of transportation. sure, plenty of people know how to properly ride in a cart. Those aren't the ones causing pace issues though. If this discussion is about what is best for pace *in general* then IMO walking presents less of an opportunity for folks to exercise bad etiquette and for them to affect others in their group.

 

[Acuna]

So many times people in carts on my course wait to get their stuff until the other person using the cart has hit. It can really slow down play.

For me, there is just something refreshing about walking a golf course. I enjoy my walking rounds so much more.

 

[Hawkerman]

I played 18 last Friday in a cart and got paired up with a walker (can't help but think of the walking dead as I type that). Great guy and we had an enjoyable round, but I waited on him to catch up many times during the round. We seemed pretty even skill wise and we would have been faster if he had been in a cart. However, I would agree that a foursome of my skill level walking would be faster than a foursome of my skill level riding. Too much ball chasing to do.

 

[JB]

just based on my own observations of how people conduct themselves on the course on any given day. It seems that, based on other posts in this thread, that I'm not the only one who has seen this behavior. You yourself pointed out many examples of people who do borderline idiotic things on the course regardless of the mode of transportation. sure, plenty of people know how to properly ride in a cart. Those aren't the ones causing pace issues though. If this discussion is about what is best for pace *in general* then IMO walking presents less of an opportunity for folks to exercise bad etiquette and for them to affect others in their group.

FWIW, there are just as many walkers that present bad pace of play issues.
Walking slow would be the first part of the equation. Those that carry and dont have a push cart have to set the bag down each time. Pick it up each time. Lots of variables.

I guess I see assumptions being made about bad behavior on one side, and not the other, when in the grand scheme of things, the only thing that matters is ettiquete. Comparing apples to apples, riding is faster.

When you say "Well cart people behave worse", that is an assumption or something that at best is geography and course related. Both walkers and riders can behave equally bad as it pertains to pace of play.

 

[Acuna]

FWIW, there are just as many walkers that present bad pace of play issues.
Walking slow would be the first part of the equation.

I guess I see assumptions being made about bad behavior on one side, and not the other, when in the grand scheme of things, the only thing that matters is ettiquete. Comparing apples to apples, riding is faster.

When you say "Well cart people behave worse", that is an assumption or something that at best is geography and course related. Both walkers and riders can behave equally bad as it pertains to pace of play.

So true. What it really gets down to is playing ready golf is where it is at for keeping a faster pace of play.

 

[Evok]

I simply don't see how anyone walking could possibly be faster than someone in a cart. Yes I understand etiquette, ready golf blah blah but if both players are perfect in both areas there's just no way you can play faster than me in a cart. I step up, hit my ball, watch where it goes, drive to it (wayyy faster than you walk to yours) think about my club on the way and repeat the process. You simply can't keep up with me if you're walking I don't get it haha. Etiquette is etiquette like JB mentioned but if both sides are completely equal, a human can't keep up with a cart. Kinda confused on the argument but maybe it's me.

 

[huhhh]

Obviously, all things being equal, a cart is faster than a human. BUT all things are never equal. So the real argument here seems to be: which group has has more bad etiquette people, riders or walkers? That's what it boils down to.

 

[tahoebum]

I simply don't see how anyone walking could possibly be faster than someone in a cart. Yes I understand etiquette, ready golf blah blah but if both players are perfect in both areas there's just no way you can play faster than me in a cart. I step up, hit my ball, watch where it goes, drive to it (wayyy faster than you walk to yours) think about my club on the way and repeat the process. You simply can't keep up with me if you're walking I don't get it haha. Etiquette is etiquette like JB mentioned but if both sides are completely equal, a human can't keep up with a cart. Kinda confused on the argument but maybe it's me.

If it's a foursome in two carts a fast walker can keep up no problem. I often walk and leave my bag on the cart and just take a few clubs with me for each shot and often wait for the other 3 golfers when doing this. My normal pace walking alone at my 7000 yard hilly home course is about 2:20. Yes I can ride faster - did it a couple times last summer in 1:30 as a single but when is any public course empty enough for me to ride a 90 minute round?

 

[-CRW-]

I play a lot at a 9 hole course that does not have carts. I've found plenty of slow players that are using push carts or carrying their clubs. Most 18 hole courses I've played had slow people driving carts as well.

I have a feeling it comes down to your area most, and the kind of golfers playing a specific course there. I feel like all things being equal, I'd play much faster in a cart then walking. I'd rather have my own cart though, because I don't want to wait on someone else to hit when their ball is on the opposite side of the course from mine. When playing with friends we usually drop the closest guy off and drive on to the next ball - so long as it's relatively safe to do so.

 

[baldguy]

FWIW, there are just as many walkers that present bad pace of play issues.
Walking slow would be the first part of the equation. Those that carry and dont have a push cart have to set the bag down each time. Pick it up each time. Lots of variables.

I guess I see assumptions being made about bad behavior on one side, and not the other, when in the grand scheme of things, the only thing that matters is ettiquete. Comparing apples to apples, riding is faster.

When you say "Well cart people behave worse", that is an assumption or something that at best is geography and course related. Both walkers and riders can behave equally bad as it pertains to pace of play.

when did I say that? I think you're twisting my words... what I said was that there is more of an opportunity for riders to exercise bad etiquette. There are things like not dropping someone off, parking in the wrong spot, having to go back to the cart multiple times, etc that just don't exist when people walk. *of course* not all people do those things. but if you take away the carts, those things *can't* be done. If there are walking-specific opportunities for bad etiquette, then I can't think of any.

 

[JB]

when did I say that? I think you're twisting my words... what I said was that there is more of an opportunity for riders to exercise bad etiquette. There are things like not dropping someone off, parking in the wrong spot, having to go back to the cart multiple times, etc that just don't exist when people walk. *of course* not all people do those things. but if you take away the carts, those things *can't* be done. If there are walking-specific opportunities for bad etiquette, then I can't think of any.

But it can happen for people that walk. Set your bag down in one area. Go to the ball and thin it over the green. Hop in cart and drive to it is faster than getting back to bag and walking over. And all of this simply has to make up for the extra time it takes to get to the ball.

Again, it comes down to ettiquete. There are just as many opportunities for slowness with walkers, then add in the sheer amount of time it takes to walk to the ball. Nobody is saying that walkers are always slower. But there seems to be this notion that walkers are more serious and understand ettiquete more, and that is a falicy.

 

[Evok]

Most of guys I see walking are doing so to get exercise, not because they are scratch handicaps. They are the same hacks, with bad etiquette just going at 1/3 the pace. At least in a cart those hacks are driving to their ball at triple the speed.

 

[Hawk]

Most of guys I see walking are doing so to get exercise, not because they are scratch handicaps. They are the same hacks, with bad etiquette just going at 1/3 the pace. At least in a cart those hacks are driving to their ball at triple the speed.

LOL save me the exaggerations.

In it's pure form you can ride faster than walk, but the day it affects pace of play in any meaningful way give me a call. Golf can be played walking (barring certain courses) well within the limits of acceptable pace of play.

 

[Hawk]

Again - a stupid debate that seems to do exactly what JB said. The argument that walkers are more serious. The argument that somehow foursomes in carts are suffering b/c of walkers. Riders getting defensive from the stupid 'serious' argument.

It's a game that can be played both ways and played a good pace both ways. Nobody is more or less awesome than the next guy.