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Pace of play - walking versus riding

baldguy

baldguy

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This has been brought up a couple of times in other threads recently and I thought it was an interesting discussion that deserved its own thread. Here are JB's thoughts from another thread on my assertion that walking is generally faster:

JB said:
In my opinion its not very accurate (but geography plays a role). Can it be? Absolutely, but that is taking the assumption that those in the cart dont use it properly and those that are walking do.
And its no different with 4.

It all comes down to playing ready golf and if done in a cart, its significantly faster than walking. Sadly, slow golfers are slow golfers and riding vs walking does not change that.
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Maybe the issue really is that those walking tend to embrace the ready golf concept more than those riding. When walking, there is no need to sit in the cart at someone else's lie, 50-100 yards away from your own. As soon as my playing partner hits his shot, I can hit mine. he doesn't have to find the spot in his bag for his club, replace the headcover, then drive over to mine, then I get a distance, examine my lie and my target and pick a club, etc. More things happen simultaneously... to lean on my geeky background, it's a matter of parallel operations versus serial ones. In other words, the twosome walking is always multitasking whereas the twosome riding can't (or more realistically, just don't) do that nearly as well.

Also, I have used my pedometer on walking versus riding rounds and the actual amount of walking done when riding is over 50% of that when walking (just over 12k steps riding versus 22k walking at my home course). On 'cart path only' days I found that riding actually means *more* total steps taken. Even in good conditions, everyone has to walk near the tees and greens, and the two people sharing a cart frequently hit to much different parts of the course so there is a lot of driving from one ball to another. Add in all the additional time spent going back to the cart to get a different club, standing at the cart replacing headcovers, stuff like that. It really does add up. When you think about it, the majority of the time spent on the course isn't traveling from one shot to another anyway. it always seems to me like the bulk of the time spent on any given hole, especially with a foursome, is on the green. marking, walking around lines, reading the greens, replacing the flag, picking up wedges, etc. That all adds up quickly and that part doesn't change with your preferred mode of transportation.

The flip side is that there are some courses that just aren't walker friendly. Long distances between green and tee, major elevation changes or other features that prohibit a direct path off the tee box to the fairway on more than a few holes, things like that. Not many of those around here, but I have seen them in pictures :). Also, in the few instances I've seen a foursome go out (on an unrestricted day) with 4 carts, they do play extremely fast. That setup has the best of both worlds.

On a course that doesn't have a design heavily favoring one mode of transportation over the other, I still think walking is going to be faster for just about any group. I would love to see an actual study done. Perhaps a course with a neutral design does a walking-only day and a riding-only day and compares pace on each day. Using average golfers with average habits. I think that would be very revealing one way or the other. Maybe we as THPers can settle this debate with an informal study of our own :)

what say you? Not really what do you prefer, but what do you think is better for pace of play and why?
 
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so it looks like some studies have already been done. I'm still looking for the actual studies, but here are some interesting links that talk not only about pace of play but also have good data on the health and scoring benefits:

http://www.popeofslope.com/paceofplay/index.html

http://www.popeofslope.com/paceofplay/walking.html

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/columns/cigar+lounge/1-3800-To_Walk_or_To_Ride.html

http://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...19th-hole-debates/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

And from the last link, and interesting excerpt that I am trying to find support for: "Add to that the perception that cart use speeds play, a myth that has been debunked by several studies but a myth that persists nonetheless."
 
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On any reasonable walking conducive course I've pretty much always seen it this way too. Two players walking is typically faster than two sharing a cart. Another time suck that I think you are omitting is the extra time it often takes to find the second ball when cart buddies hit in the rough on opposite sides of the fairway, or even when one ball is well back and/or further offline on the same side. Cart path only creates a similar potential to balls taking longer to find. Maybe it's because I've basically walked whenever I could, but I'm used to traveling directly from the tee box down the line I witnessed my ball traveling, and my ball is virtually always right where I expect it to be. Seems whenever I'm paired in a cart I'll often spend extra time circling around a general area for the ball as I've lost that sense of distance traveled and exact line, especially if we go to my ball second, or I'm not in the driver's seat. Another big time benefit to walking the direct route is it sets me up for ready golf. I'm almost always able to approach my ball from right down the target line of my next shot unless I have to almost step on it to first see it. So in that final walkup to any ball I can see (fairway too), I'm visualizing the shot, wind, any tree limbs, or trouble etc, paced off from yardage marker as I've past it's line (even if far away) and have mentally pulled a club. I'm 100% ready to hit it when I get there unlike when I'm paired in a cart. Again that's me, I'm sure seasoned cart golfers aren't as impacted. But man sometimes I just want to yank the wheel out of my cart partners hands, when they routinely expect to just magically drive to a ball despite being oblivious to the line the ball took to get there. If a wayward shot goes near a prominent landmark, then of course this effect is lessened provided the golfer pays attention (another big bugaboo I have is 'golfers' who react to a wayward shot by turning away or demonstrating their disgust rather than watching it intently as to be able to find it).
 
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apparently the USGA agrees, as I've seen multiple references to a USGA study that confirmed walking is better for pace of play (among many other things like general health of the turf *and* the golfer) than riding. I can't find that study though, so I can't link to it or quote from it. If anyone has that I'd love to read it.
 
baldguy said:
the twosome walking is always multitasking whereas the twosome riding can't (or more realistically, just don't) do that nearly as well.
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This says it all. It is the main reason I prefer to walk, unless the course is just massively hilly or incredibly long.

When walking, I can have my range finder in hand and usually by the time I've gotten to my ball, I know what club I want and how I'm going to attempt to hit the shot. Personally, I've found it faster on solo rounds when I walk versus ride.
 
There have been a ton of "studies" on both sides.
Riding is far faster in this area. Mainly because golfers down here tend to be golfers and know what they are doing.

Some of these studies are funny. In all of them, none of the riders go with proper ettiquete and all of the walkers do. How is that a study?
If done properly, there is absolutely no way walking is faster than riding, simply because a walker cannot walk 15 mph. By the time a walker gets to their first ball, I am on the green.

Once again, ettiquete causes slow play. But anybody that would like to challenge the experiment, we can certainly do so.
 
I've had no problems multi tasking while riding. All of those things walkers do that riders don't, I do while riding. I also brace golf
 
JB said:
By the time a walker gets to their first ball, I am on the green.
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I would day this is true for anywhere if you are a low-capper. Around here, with my 21 hdcp, I can be on a green a lot faster walking than the drunkards behind me in a cart.
 
Adam Hartzell said:
This says it all. It is the main reason I prefer to walk, unless the course is just massively hilly or incredibly long.

When walking, I can have my range finder in hand and usually by the time I've gotten to my ball, I know what club I want and how I'm going to attempt to hit the shot. Personally, I've found it faster on solo rounds when I walk versus ride.
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This is absolutely crazy. The entire basis of all of this is that "carts are faster but because people are morons and hang out as the other shoots and walkers just go directly to their balls, walkers catch up and are faster". As a single its just not possible unless someone is taking a nap in the cart, some special rule like cart path only, or you truly walk 15 mph.
 
Adam Hartzell said:
I would day this is true for anywhere if you are a low-capper. Around here, with my 21 hdcp, I can be on a green a lot faster walking than the drunkards behind me in a cart.
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Its not about handicap. Its about ettiquete. See that is not comparing apples to apples. That is like saying as a walker you are faster than another walker who is drunk and stumbling.
 
JB said:
This is absolutely crazy. The entire basis of all of this is that "carts are faster but because people are morons and hang out as the other shoots and walkers just go directly to their balls, walkers catch up and are faster". As a single its just not possible unless someone is taking a nap in the cart, some special rule like cart path only, or you truly walk 15 mph.
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Not quite 15 mph, but as a former triathlete, adventure racer, and long time cyclist, I probably do walk faster than your average golfer.

JB said:
Its not about handicap. Its about ettiquete. See that is not comparing apples to apples. That is like saying as a walker you are faster than another walker who is drunk and stumbling.
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Ok, if you are just looking at time it takes to get around a course and taking golfer skill out completely (apples to apples), then yes a cart will always win out.

From my own personal experience, with the courses I play around here, and with no other scientific data to back me up other then my watch, I can play 18 faster when I walk. I focus more when I walk and that leads to less "off" shots, lower scores, and faster rounds.
 
I find it difficult to keep up if I'm walking and playing with some good riding golfers most of the time, they get to the ball and hit it without overthinking and their accuracy generally is pretty good, I'm not far behind but I can get behind. I think the argument that walking vs a cart has way too many variables and the studies that lead us to believe walking is faster are inaccurate. I do love to walk and I do think the game is much much more enjoyable walking for me personally but it's not for everyone.
 
Yesterday I played 9 holes. Had a cart. It was cart path only. I had no GPS or range finder. I got done in 1:10.

I'm out of excuses.
 
Adam Hartzell said:
This says it all. It is the main reason I prefer to walk, unless the course is just massively hilly or incredibly long.

When walking, I can have my range finder in hand and usually by the time I've gotten to my ball, I know what club I want and how I'm going to attempt to hit the shot. Personally, I've found it faster on solo rounds when I walk versus ride.
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I am appreciably faster when I ride vs walking at my course, about 45 minutes faster. I just don't see how 1 person does not go faster with a cart, everything is the same except the speed that you travel between shots. Now on a cart path only day it does not make sense to take the cart over walking as there is a lot of walking back and forth to the ball.

One big problem I have as a walker though is that groups will not let me through because they don't think a walker can actually go faster than the 4some who are all in carts when in reality it is not even close. They do recognize that I am faster when I am in a cart.
 
If I am by myself I can ride with no interruption in about 2:10 the best I have ever done walking alone with no interruption is about 2:25. Sometimes for me though too fast is not necessarily a good thing. I will get running around the course and not thinking about the actual golf at hand. I try to just play my game because more often than not my time for a round has more to do with others around me than what I am doing.
 
In my experience, pace of play has very little to do with the method of propulsion chosen by the players. It is mostly to do with the players taking an age to choose a club, then a few practice swings, then decide it's the wrong club. Then using the rangefinder, then back to the bag for a new club and the cycle starts again. Then on the green, each putt needs surveyed from multiple angles, many practice putts and the whole routine is repeated for each subsequent missed putt. Generally followed by marking the card at the front of the green!
 
If you you think these "drunken can't choose the right club can't find my ball" golfers are slow when they are in a cart than you should see them without the cart. At least when they are moving they are moving at 15 mph when using the cart. Take away the cart and all of a sudden these same "slow cart players" become unbelievably even slower walking
 
I think it is completely dependent on the course. There's a local muni here I play alot (actually hosted 1949 PGA championship), and the holes are right on top of each other, virtually no distance from green to tee box, and definitely longer to walk back to your cart, and drive to the next hole.

As far as down the fairway, the extra speed a twosome in a cart might have, is all but negated if their balls are on opposite sides of the course. While two walkers can go directly to their ball, set up virtually simultaneously, and general both hit before the 2nd cart player does.

Edit: I should point out as well that the course from the tips is only 6500 yards
 
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I've been stuck behind walkers with poor etiquette, and good lord is it frustrating.
If you have two groups who exercise the same etiquette, the riders will be faster.

At my home course, which is an easy walk, my dad and I can play 18 in between 2-215 if in a cart, it is about 230-300 if we walk.
 
I will always agree with JB on the this issue. If someone is walking 4-5 MPH and someone is riding 10-15 MPH, stands to reason that, given the same golf etiquette, those riding will play a round much faster than those walking. The other factor in play are the golfers in front. When walking, a group can easily keep up with a group riding if the course is full and playing at pace. The riders get to the ball and wait, and the walkers get to their ball and hit. That part takes the same time. I think that's why many prefer to walk. They don't like the wait so by the time they get to their ball, it is time to hit. I've played many rounds on a busy course with 2 riding and 2 walking and there is never an issue and the pace is the same, but if the course is empty, you end up waiting on the walkers.

Assuming two foursomes of equal skill level and etiquette tee off on a empty course that is walker friendly with one group riding and one walking, if the riding group goes out first, they will be out of sight by the 4th hole. If the walking group goes off first, the riders will be waiting at least once a hole. It just takes less time to get around in a cart.
 
Timing myself while playing as a single. Walking I play 9 around an 1hour. Riding it's around 40 minutes. For 18 I can walk around 2:30-2:45(back 9 is tougher walk) while riding I can play 18 in under 2 hours.
 
I don't think carts help speed up play much at public courses. Monday I played at a public course that was not busy and our group decided to skip the last hole because we had already been on the course 4:30. It only takes a few groups on a course to slow everyone down. Public courses almost without exception seem to be happy with a 4:20 pace of play - for me a 4:20 round is borderline painful.

I know growing up 30 years ago most people walked and a round rarely took more than 4 hours on a busy Saturday and most rounds took 3:45 or less. Today if you play on even a moderately busy public golf course it's unusual to finish in under 3:45. A group of bogey golfers playing ready golf should have no problem playing a 6500 yard course in 3:30 or less. We have a regular group of low index players that walks my very hilly 7000 yard home course and normally finishes right at 3 hours. Sadly, there are so many golfers that have never played a 3 hour round that they are completely unaware of the simple habits required to play a 3 hour round. The main reason I joined a private club was the slow play at public courses was causing me to play a lot less golf - I simply don't have the time or patience for all of my rounds to take 4 to 5 hours. Add in drive time and a weekend round was easily chew up 6 hours of my Saturday or Sunday. Now my average time for a round is 3 hours or less. On weekend mornings I can tee off at 6:45 and be home having breakfast with my family at 9:30 - the wife acceptance factor for this type of golf is crazy good.
 
Riding is faster hands down assuming the riders use a modicum of common sense and play some form of ready golf.
 
I walk almost all the time, and I play pretty quickly. As a single with the course open, I've shot an 82 walking, finishing every shot and not feeling like I was running or trying to be super fast. Takes me about 2:30-2:45 to do that. We have a regular that comes out quite often, rides, is the first one off, and he likes to try and finish each nine in about an hour. He can do 27 in just over 3 hours, and I've even seen him hit a second shot when he doesn't like the first one, try a putt multiple times if the break baffles him, and he doesn't drive around like a maniac. The cart is definitely faster here, simply because even driving at a reasonable pace, moving from green to tee, and through the parking lot to the back 9 is much faster.

Slow play is caused by people playing slow, no matter how they move around. I think the main reason it gets attributed to carts, is maybe a majority of people ride, so that's what others see. People in carts playing slow. Guilt by association.
 
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