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The Art of the Deal (Negotiating pops)

Michigan Slice

Michigan Slice

This Guy Cant dance...
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
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Location
Merrill, MI
Handicap
23.3
Freddie's Thread got me thinking, those who are not the same level of those we play against, how do we level the playing field?

POPS, POPS, and more POPS!

Do we go off handicaps only? Do we consider distance? Do we consider if one player is at his home course? Do we say eff it and play even? (that never happens does it...?)

What's your art of the deal?

Myself, I try to get everything I can, and try to play at a distance I feel I can be competitive at.

The bickering is always fun, but I do so honestly, and have an up to date handicap now, and will with that to guide the negotiations.

How do you craft your deals while playing?
 
I usually give MS too many and it forces me to play my best, which I enjoy.

It depends on if it's stroke or match play. I know my game and it's generally a couple blow up holes that jumps my up my score. So if it's match play I'll usually give up a couple pops to keep it tight.


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The only way to make it fair is to make it consistent. Courst rating and handicap are what i use every time. Taking wind or wet conditions into factor just seems like added handicap
 
I use this purely scientific method.

I take the regular handicaps
Then I divide by 3.14
Then I multiply by .78
Then I add the traveling handicap
Then I divide by 2.72
Then multiply by 2
Then take the traveling handicap and subtract the regular handicap
Then take that number add it to what the other number was.

Then I realize that handicaps in general are done for consistency to eliminate all of the other stuff and just use those.
 
I try to play straight up whenever possible unless there is a big gap in caps. If pops are being given then course rating and slope is used to determine course hdcp and we play off the lowest cap.
 
JB said:
I use this purely scientific method.

I take the regular handicaps
Then I divide by 3.14
Then I multiply by .78
Then I add the traveling handicap
Then I divide by 2.72
Then multiply by 2
Then take the traveling handicap and subtract the regular handicap
Then take that number add it to what the other number was.

Then I realize that handicaps in general are done for consistency to eliminate all of the other stuff and just use those.
Click to expand...

You forgot to add the home course handicap
 
Most of my friends play to a lower handicap, so I try to get all that I can.
 
JB said:
I use this purely scientific method.

I take the regular handicaps
Then I divide by 3.14
Then I multiply by .78
Then I add the traveling handicap
Then I divide by 2.72
Then multiply by 2
Then take the traveling handicap and subtract the regular handicap
Then take that number add it to what the other number was.

Then I realize that handicaps in general are done for consistency to eliminate all of the other stuff and just use those.
Click to expand...


That travelling handicap, is that the Sober handicap, Lightly buzzed handicap, or the 9 beers in handicap?
League handicaps, are they used?

:act-up:
 
The Art of the Deal (Negotiating pops)

I usually go off handicaps
 
Base it off of course handicap and go from there.
 
I use my RCGA handicap and ignore all the other noise. If a guy wants to play for some cash or bragging rights without an official handicap he will probably get the short end of the stick or I won't do it unless I've played with him a TON. Playing against a guy with the ol' Parking Lot handicap just isn't fun regardless of which way it goes.

Example is a guy I just met through work. He's a golf addict and said he's a 9 handicap. Then he told me he's shot even par 3 times in the last 2 months. I sat him down and we plugged all his scores into an RCGA calculator and boom, he's a 2.7. People have no idea what their caps are and most guys have no idea how the system works or is designed to work. If you want to play and keep it interesting just have an official cap that anyone can look up in 3 seconds. No muss, no fuss.
 
When my group consisted of us being within 2-3 strokes handicap-wise we always played straight up. Now, the closest handicap differential between me and the next closest I play with would be 8 strokes. Being the one who always has to give pops I try to avoid using full handicaps, 80%-90% is more reasonable.

I played one year in a Senior MGA and they all played off me. The lowest differential was 6 strokes and they played full handicap differential. Not only did I not win any tournaments, I did not finish "in the money" the entire year. It was actually fun playing in the weekly events and the dollars involved weren't worth getting upset about (less than $10/tournament). I signed up this year with the MGA at a different course where tournament entry fee was $50/tournament and when I found out I was low handicap I ended up passing on all the events as that was a little to rich for me to "invest" each time.

I am of the opinion that the handicap system, especially with the way ESC is applied, favors higher handicaps.
 
The only time this comes into play for me is in group events with friends. In that case I just go with whatever the guys organizing it come up with. I can't imagine ever negotiating "pops" with somebody I didn't know.
 
Among friends, if we are within a couple I prefer to play straight up. If I'm playing at a friend's home course I realize I've got an uphill battle but I'm probably not going to ask for an adjustment - the idea is to be friends after the round too, so we'll just keep the stakes low or I'll expect to pay.

If it's in a real tourney there isn't really any negotiation to be had, we are going strictly by the book.
 
We just use handicaps. At my course at the moment we have a match play comp on and the last two weeks ive had to give 24 shots and 14 shots respectively. I managed to win both of them, but giving two shots a hole for 6 holes gets tough, but they were both good matches.
 
Well I recently played in my clubs match play. I made it to the final 4. My course hdcp is a 3. My opponent had a HDCP of 15. He is a high school senior on the golf team and hasn't posted any recent scores. Try as I may I could not get them to lower the amount of shots I would be giving him so I had to give him 12 shots. Long story short I got killed. This kid shot a 76 and beat me 4 up. It was so frustrating. You cant base shots purely on HDCP. I have not posted many scores and am playing prob closely to a 10hdcp and he was playing closer to a 5. Anyways that ramble prob didn't really make a lot of sense but that's my 0.02
 
For the most part the only time we give/get pops is during the skins game. We have our own handicap based just off your performance during the skin games. A couple older duffers have been doing this for a long time and have books of everyone's scores since they started doing the skins. To me its fair, some ppl didn't like it. I have no clue how them old duffers decide the handi and pops. I just love it when I get to golf with them.
 
dustin8538 said:
Well I recently played in my clubs match play. I made it to the final 4. My course hdcp is a 3. My opponent had a HDCP of 15. He is a high school senior on the golf team and hasn't posted any recent scores. Try as I may I could not get them to lower the amount of shots I would be giving him so I had to give him 12 shots. Long story short I got killed. This kid shot a 76 and beat me 4 up. It was so frustrating. You cant base shots purely on HDCP. I have not posted many scores and am playing prob closely to a 10hdcp and he was playing closer to a 5. Anyways that ramble prob didn't really make a lot of sense but that's my 0.02
Click to expand...

That is bull crap. The committee should review his handicap, inquire as to why he hasn't been posting scores and adjust from there. The handicap system works great when it is used properly and rounds are posted.
 
Well, I would agree but he works in the pro shop part time and his dad has pull at the club. It didn't go to far when I questioned it. Lol


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when I play with CJ, I let him choose what he wants and hope I can hang. When playing with guys that are better than me. I try to play my game and see if I can hang that day. Haven't really messed with pops much.
 
It's always an interesting week leading up to a match against 441 hahaha.

Most who know me on the course know I love to negotiate strokes but it's always in good fun.
 
For the most part, it's based off of handicap.

But I have a group of about 12 guys I play with probably about a dozen rounds a year. They all like to gamble, but we're talking small bets ($5-10/round.) And they all want strokes (stroke play, not match play.) None of them keep a handicap. We literally have to show up to the course 2 hours early just to hash out all the bets and spots. It's hilarious and fun... but I'm glad I don't live close enough to them to have to go through it every Sunday. lol
 
I play in 2 different groups. Neither is for much money and it all goes to pay the bar/lunch tab afterwards. One is strictly handicap. The other is no handicaps (they call it no arms or legs, just run with what you bring). Both fun but I prefer the no handicap group. Spread between the best and worst (me) is 8 strokes. I usually play better when playing with better golfers.

Handicap Tourney story: for years I played in the Fl. Police Olympics. 2 flights: Gross or net. Handicaps were on an honor system, no verification. (Know where this is going?) 3 rounds stroke play. One year the Winning net score : -35 ..on tough courses (3 courses at PGA Reserve in Pt. St. Lucie) ...Last time I played in that division. Played gross next few years and had more fun. Don't care for large handicap tournaments when handicaps can't be verified..
 
"What do you usually shoot?" "If I break 90, its a great day." "OK, how about 6?" "Good."

We know each other pretty well. I know if he goes to 80, there is no way I can beat him but he's lame in both knees and one elbow. So, 6.

I'm improving so I probably couldn't get more.
 
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