- Moderator
- #1,776
What about a WRX? They hit the dealer right around 30k.
Canadan wants it!
The Car Shopping Thread
What about a WRX? They hit the dealer right around 30k.
Canadan wants it!
- Moderator
- #1,777
So I'm kind of a nut when the car shopping starts. I get a big kick out of checking ALL the dealers in the area (and beyond) for deals..
Then I enjoy talking up the trade in value of the car and comparing to KBB (of course that annoys most of the car salesmen)..
Annnnd then I agonize over whether I got the best deal.
Last night, I sat at my favourite VW dealership talking about Passat's. They have discounted their TDI's upwards of 3,500 on the website vs the standard 1.8T (which isn't an option because my wife wants DSG or CVT) only 1,300-1,500. We walked because she's still unsure about Passat's (she wants another Legacy) and they were right on the bubble of offering a good deal that we couldn't pass up.
....then I get home, and like a good idiot, jump on the google machine. In doing so, I found a handful of dealers offering stupid discounts on TDI's. 7,000 off for a couple dealerships, 5,000 off from a couple others. The numbers were crazy, but not close enough for us to just jump in the car and go get the deal.
How is that possible? Aside from trying to make the sale, why is VW claiming to break even at 3,500 off and another VW dealership can get away with dumping 7,000 off the MSRP?
Then I enjoy talking up the trade in value of the car and comparing to KBB (of course that annoys most of the car salesmen)..
Annnnd then I agonize over whether I got the best deal.
Last night, I sat at my favourite VW dealership talking about Passat's. They have discounted their TDI's upwards of 3,500 on the website vs the standard 1.8T (which isn't an option because my wife wants DSG or CVT) only 1,300-1,500. We walked because she's still unsure about Passat's (she wants another Legacy) and they were right on the bubble of offering a good deal that we couldn't pass up.
....then I get home, and like a good idiot, jump on the google machine. In doing so, I found a handful of dealers offering stupid discounts on TDI's. 7,000 off for a couple dealerships, 5,000 off from a couple others. The numbers were crazy, but not close enough for us to just jump in the car and go get the deal.
How is that possible? Aside from trying to make the sale, why is VW claiming to break even at 3,500 off and another VW dealership can get away with dumping 7,000 off the MSRP?
lightningbolt44
Well-known member
It is amazing what the difference between some dealers is. They often can do much better than what they say is their break even . I don't know if you decided to explore a lease or not as well but remember you can negotiate that as well. I know they took about 9.5k off the sticker on my car and got the payments much much lower than what Infiniti is advertising
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- Moderator
- #1,779
I am the perfect candidate for a lease, but have yet to have a good experience discussing one. The last time we talked to a dealer about a lease, they were going to try and put me and my wife out of pocket 12,500 for a 3 year lease on a Legacy. That's laughable. It costs less to buy.
We'll see how VW feels about their competitors offering stupid prices. I'm not trying to destroy them, but I definitely want a great deal.
JRod
Well-known member
The Car Shopping Thread
Leases can be extremely complicated and unless you go with someone who knows what they're talking about you're going to get destroyed .
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Leases can be extremely complicated and unless you go with someone who knows what they're talking about you're going to get destroyed .
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SplooGe
Member
There was a Toyota dealership in LA that used to print their own window stickers and then offer huge discounts off the MSRP.
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JRod
Well-known member
- Moderator
- #1,783
That would make sense in this case if the numbers were wildly different, but they aren't. Similar MSRP's and notably different end numbers (better from the online sellers).
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
Happy to help brother!
The other dealerships might be throwing the back-end cash into the deal from the get go. When I sold cars, I had a manager that would give the customer the dealer cash on the first pencil. Always hated that guy giving away my money without a fight.
- Moderator
- #1,786
What do you mean by back-end cash?
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
That's crazy...either they were TRYING to flip you and thought they had a sucker, or they just don't know or have good lease programs. As a Finance Manager, if the lease makes sense to the customer, it usually is a better payment, too. For Ford (where I work) right now there are great lease deals on the Fusion and Focus. With that said, the new '15 F-150 isn't as strong. You can get a LOADED Fusion for around $350 a month or less in some cases for 3 years.
I don't know if a lease with a Ford or Lincoln is a possibility (doesn't look like it) but I'd be happy to help if that's the case or even a possibility. Only down side is each State has minor different ways of figuring a lease, but I know I could get you into the ballpark.
Also (at least for Ford) the agreed upon price with a buy and then flipping to a lease, wouldn't change. The rebates and offers almost always do, but the agreed upon price would not. So, if you agreed on $30,000 then there is NO reason that would or should change. Invoice price doesn't ever change, right?
There is ALSO a TON of rebates on some of the Jeep products right now that are specific to leasing with them. I'd have to call and talk to one of my Jeep guys, but if you have any interest in something in that line up, I could look for you there, too.
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
SOME, not all, have what they call Dealer Cash. Dealer Cash is extra cash that the Manufacture gives to the dealership to get (usually) year end vehicles sold. It's NOT a rebate, its just like a kick back straight from the Manufacture specific to that vehicles. MOST of the dealerships let the salesmen keep that Dealer Cash towards their commission. So USUALLY, most salesmen will sell the vehicle at the LOWEST possible price (invoice) with all the rebates, but then keep the Dealer Cash in their pocket to pay for their commission. It's usually not that much, maybe $500 to $1000. Don't take that as they are keeping money from you though, it's a sales perk/kick back that they USUALLY DON'T get.
Manufacturer incentives given to dealers that aren't publicized. Its been 15 years but when I was selling, say, a Towncar, Lincoln provided us with another $4k of dealer cash to use. You could use it to put into the trade or drop the price below invoice. It was usually added to the trade so we could show our invoice from FMC to the buyer, but still have money being made. Buyer sees invoice price, gets a better deal on trade in and dealer still makes $3500 plus whatever they get from the sale of the trade in.
The manager I spoke of would knock that $4k off the price right off the bat. There was still $4k of mark up to use, but he cut one of our legs out from under us.
- Moderator
- #1,790
Thanks for all the great info AJ. I'm pretty sold on my GLI personally (actually debating whether to extend the warranty to six years through VW or buy a new one right now), and my wife is down to a Passat or a Legacy -- Probably the Legacy.
We've got about 2,200 off the MSRP (and they are claiming 500 under invoice/dealer cost) for the Legacy on the table, with 13,250 on her '13 Legacy trade. (KBB has her car for 14,5 VeryGood, 14.4 Good, 13,2 Fair --- It does have a few dents from hail on the hood).
Let me ask you a question... If someone came in with a link to another dealer, not in the area, showing a listing for basically the same car you've got on your lot, but for just under 5k off the price in comparison to the 1.5k your dealer lists for, how do you treat that?
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
That's a Sales Manager I would NOT want to work for either, not surprised you (or any of the other salesman) left. The ONLY time our Sales Manger ever gives away the dealer cash for the guys is when there is NO other choice and they just WANT to get that vehicle sold. 99% of the time the guys get to keep the Dealer Cash.
He was all about volume. If we kept any with other managers, it was figured like part of any other profit and salespeople got 25%.
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
There are a couple of reason this might be happening. It doesn't happen here very often here. With that said, some vehicles that have been in a dealership stock/on the ground for a long time will get some minor last minute extra rebates from the factory to get it sold, they usually call is something like an "Aged Inventory" rebate.
With that said, the rebates for one should be the same for the other, as long as it's the same trim of the model. For example, the F-150 XLT trucks (cloth seats) usually have more rebates than the Lariat's (leather). So, if you're looking at a trim that's different than the advertisement, that MAY be why. Outside of that, if I'm you. I'm asking for a copy of the invoice and list of the rebates. It's all smoke and mirror for advertisement. Bottom line is the bottom line. Then all you need to do is see who's willing to give you the best value for your trade in.
What they will do then is give you the invoice price, less rebates and then take off whatever hard money value they give you for the trade in.
Give me a second and I'll give you an example of two ways to price is for the same vehicle....
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
Two ways to sell...same bottom line....
Two ways to sell...same bottom line....
MSRP for the car you want is $35,000
Invoice price is $30,000
Rebates $5000
Hard money Trade in value is $5000
Option 1.
They show you....
LOOK $5000 off!!!
Selling price : $35,000
Trade in value : $10,000
Rebates : $5,000
Taxes: $1000
Out the door: $21,000
Option 2.
They show you....
LOOK $10,000 off!!!
Selling price : $30,000
Trade in value: $5,000
Rebates: $5,000
Taxes: $1,000
Out the door: $21,000
Which one looks like the better deal to you?
Two ways to sell...same bottom line....
MSRP for the car you want is $35,000
Invoice price is $30,000
Rebates $5000
Hard money Trade in value is $5000
Option 1.
They show you....
LOOK $5000 off!!!
Selling price : $35,000
Trade in value : $10,000
Rebates : $5,000
Taxes: $1000
Out the door: $21,000
Option 2.
They show you....
LOOK $10,000 off!!!
Selling price : $30,000
Trade in value: $5,000
Rebates: $5,000
Taxes: $1,000
Out the door: $21,000
Which one looks like the better deal to you?
We're narrowing down the candidates to test drive next month, looks like the Optima, Altima, and Camry will be the ones we look hard at. Thinking a 2014 will be best bang for the buck, since my wife is planning on giving her Corolla to our daughter in 3 years we want something we can have paid off by then.
I know none of those cars are flashy, but for me it's all highway miles and wanting enough room for the kids and all their stuff... plus my clubs, of course!
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I know none of those cars are flashy, but for me it's all highway miles and wanting enough room for the kids and all their stuff... plus my clubs, of course!
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- Moderator
- #1,796
I checked comparable offerings and they are slightly different depending on trim. Larger gaps for the GLI SEL (upwards of 5k) but not hugely different from GLI SE (upwards of 4,1k).
The Passat is a different bird altogether. Wondering if it has to do with diesel pricing and not selling. I saw some online (SE w/Sunroof) going for 7k off list. Closest deal is an hour away offering nearly 6k off. All same trim.
Thanks again for all your thoughts. I might need to do exactly that, asking for the invoice and rebates.
Wake
Active member
My sister bought a Passat earlier this month, and while we were looking a local dealer had similar RIDICULOUS prices on them. She was ready to driver over that day and purchase it at the price advertised, and called the dealership to verify that the vehicle she wanted was in stock. She was then told the price advertised was the "lease price" and she would have to pay 4000 more if she wanted to buy it. Of course she was outraged and complained to the sales manager, and tried to contact the GM over all of the dealership chain. It went no where, it was just unethical advertising. Could be the same thing at play.
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
That makes sense.
Ya, if a customer comes in and says to one of my salesman. "I want to have a copy of the invoice and I won't pay a penny over that." They'll do that. Simple put, if they don't, someone will and a sale is a sale. If I'm you, so as to not waste your time. I'd call the dealership that's an hour away (if you haven't already) to make sure the vehicle is still there, for one. Two, tell them about your trade in and have them give you a soft quote on that. That way you have a ball park on what they'd be willing to give you for it, sight unseen. Just know they might be able to give you more, or less off that quote....but this way, you don't waste TWO hours of your life driving down there for nothing.
- Moderator
- #1,799
Did you end up buying from someone else? Did they give you a good deal?
Wake
Active member
They ended up buying a 14, with 6000 miles on it from a Lexus dealership for a great deal. They had negotiated a solid deal from another vw deal on a new one, but not close to the price the place advertised.