The GHIN Soft Cap

[Canadan]

What I think is most damaging about a soft cap, is that it effectively gives you two options (for the honest golfer):

1- Get better (again).
2- Wait a year for a relevant handicap as your swing/age/skill shifts.

A year is far too long.

 

[WMac19]

The soft-cap crushes me because a negative turn in my game is almost always related to my bad back. Either injury or lack of being able to turn due to the chilly weather. I've been soft-capped for months, now.

 

[Canadan]

Thanks. I was speaking to a friend of mine today that swears with the new system in place, its nearly impossible to get soft capped if you have year round golf. I explained that a few THPers were seeing that. It has not happened to me, but I saw it with you previously, someone else on here and now @PiratePenguin so obviously its possible as I dont think anybody would sandbag for an Experience. At least we hope not, although it has happened in the past, it is so rare.

I know Pirate said injury and swing change will do it, I would imagine it would rather easily under the old system, but the new one makes that harder, right?

I've sat in debates where injuries became conversation for handicap shifting. I think there are some rules in place that would allow a handicap to be adjusted based on something like that, but it would have to be committee approved and my course has never approved one.

I think the more I hate the soft cap, the more i take issue with the length of time rather than the application. Somewhere between 3-4 months would be more appropriate in my opinion, or even a round count threshold.

There has to be something more logical than 12 months in the handicap gulag.

 

[baylrballa]

it's a lot easier to get soft capped the more golf you play as well.

I've still got scores from 2022 on the card.


I just dropped the best round from 2022 and expected a bigger increase in handicap than i expected. it jumped less than a point and the dropped score was better than any other round i've had since by like 5 or 6 strokes. It would be really really hard for me to move 3 points either way with the current system.

 

[JB]

I've sat in debates where injuries became conversation for handicap shifting. I think there are some rules in place that would allow a handicap to be adjusted based on something like that, but it would have to be committee approved and my course has never approved one.

I think the more I hate the soft cap, the more i take issue with the length of time rather than the application. Somewhere between 3-4 months would be more appropriate in my opinion, or even a round count threshold.

There has to be something more logical than 12 months in the handicap gulag.

Oooooh. I like that actually. Sub 6 months really leaning on the 3 month mark makes so much sense.

 

[Canadan]

it's a lot easier to get soft capped the more golf you play as well.

I've still got scores from 2022 on the card.


I just dropped the best round from 2022 and expected a bigger increase in handicap than i expected. it jumped less than a point and the dropped score was better than any other round i've had since by like 5 or 6 strokes. It would be really really hard for me to move 3 points either way with the current system.

this is an interesting point. I've chatted with a couple friends who pay GHIN every year and only have 5 scores posted, so they can play in tournaments. I've got a friend who still has scores from 2019 on his card.

In my perspective, those scores are useless. Anything from a year out should hardly be relevant to a handicap.

 

[baylrballa]

I've sat in debates where injuries became conversation for handicap shifting. I think there are some rules in place that would allow a handicap to be adjusted based on something like that, but it would have to be committee approved and my course has never approved one.

I think the more I hate the soft cap, the more i take issue with the length of time rather than the application. Somewhere between 3-4 months would be more appropriate in my opinion, or even a round count threshold.

There has to be something more logical than 12 months in the handicap gulag.

a lot easier for "those people" to prep their handicap for the club championship with a 3 month window vs a 12 month window.

 

[PiratePenguin]

I think some of my index scores are from 2023 still where I had a few really great days and shot low 80s at a couple of relatively easy courses. Most of the time I’m in the low 90s. I’ve spent a crap ton on a garage sim, new clubs, lessons, etc to try and get better. I want to get back down around a 10 if possible. Lately it’s been going the wrong way. I certainly don’t go out hoping to lose a half dozen balls like yesterday.

 

[Canadan]

Oooooh. I like that actually. Sub 6 months really leaning on the 3 month mark makes so much sense.

I'm just thinking about how it would help my region. Posting season begins March 15th now. It takes a handful of rounds or more to get cap adjustments that are meaningful enough to soft cap.

If you're soft capped by let's say May 1st (assuming 10ish rounds in that timeframe), four months is September. Most meaningful tourneys are played before then. What good does carrying it any longer do?

I'd even support soft cap lengths that vary by region, honestly.

 

[Canadan]

a lot easier for "those people" to prep their handicap for the club championship with a 3 month window vs a 12 month window.

But that three month window wouldn't start until the soft cap kicked in, which takes time into the posting season.

Three months from soft cap is beyond the big tourneys at my course.

 

[War Eagle]

this is an interesting point. I've chatted with a couple friends who pay GHIN every year and only have 5 scores posted, so they can play in tournaments. I've got a friend who still has scores from 2019 on his card.

In my perspective, those scores are useless. Anything from a year out should hardly be relevant to a handicap.

My current GHIN is reflective of that. I have some oldies on there still... And there is no way that my current index is reflective of my current game.

 

[Canadan]

I want to add another variable to this;

I would think it would be less common for someone to go from being an honest golfer to a cheater in the blink of an eye vs someone who has regularly cheated. And in that case, there is absolutely NO solid policing on what scores are being posted.

In all the time I spent on committees at my club, the members who we audited who were penalized for their scoring were ones who did it over the course of a year or two, not anyone opting to do it soft-cap flash in a pan style.

I can add 2-3-4-5 strokes to my scores over the course of a year easily. GHIN does absolutely NOTHING to police this version of cheating.

 

[Daluteh]

it's a lot easier to get soft capped the more golf you play as well.

I've still got scores from 2022 on the card.


I just dropped the best round from 2022 and expected a bigger increase in handicap than i expected. it jumped less than a point and the dropped score was better than any other round i've had since by like 5 or 6 strokes. It would be really really hard for me to move 3 points either way with the current system.

You think so? I don't disagree but if you play a lot more you're (likely?) more consistent with your score numbers.

I have an average score of 105.7 on my GHIN with a 24.3 being my handicap with a low of 24.1 in June of last year. I have a few scores that are keeping my handicap "lower" than it should be on average. I've been struggling, but it is what it is.

I also don't think that I'll hit soft cap when those fall off, but it should normalize a little bit higher.

 

[Daluteh]

I want to add another variable to this;

I would think it would be less common for someone to go from being an honest golfer to a cheater in the blink of an eye vs someone who has regularly cheated. And in that case, there is absolutely NO solid policing on what scores are being posted.

In all the time I spent on committees at my club, the members who we audited who were penalized for their scoring were ones who did it over the course of a year or two, not anyone opting to do it soft-cap flash in a pan style.

I can add 2-3-4-5 strokes to my scores over the course of a year easily. GHIN does absolutely NOTHING to police this version of cheating.

Not saying it's right or wrong but 2 strokes for someone sub 5 handicap is a bigger difference than someone with 2 strokes who is even a bogey golfer.

I can't fathom how there is anyway that it can be enforced unless the people you're playing with are the ones who are entering your score for you - but that also assumes you're not adding in random numbers in the middle of the round.

 

[Canadan]

Here's the scenario that could play out for me as I solve my game a bit more.

Currently I am playing better than my handicap. What does GHIN have in place to stop me from adding 2-3 strokes to my score until my next capped tournament in order to gain an advantage and keep my handicap where it is rather than getting it back down?

Who are you more concerned with, the guy who's doing that, or the five handicap who just came back from winter break and can't break 80 to save his life in 24?

Only one of them is policed.

 

[Canadan]

Not saying it's right or wrong but 2 strokes for someone sub 5 handicap is a bigger difference than someone with 2 strokes who is even a bogey golfer.

I can't fathom how there is anyway that it can be enforced unless the people you're playing with are the ones who are entering your score for you - but that also assumes you're not adding in random numbers in the middle of the round.

That's why I don't favor it, because I think it impacts honest golfers more than it impacts cheaters. Cheaters have already cheated, and will continue to cheat.

And I do completely agree that strokes are completely different on each end of the skill spectrum. 3.0 is an idiotic metric.

 

[JB]

I want to add another variable to this;

I would think it would be less common for someone to go from being an honest golfer to a cheater in the blink of an eye vs someone who has regularly cheated. And in that case, there is absolutely NO solid policing on what scores are being posted.

In all the time I spent on committees at my club, the members who we audited who were penalized for their scoring were ones who did it over the course of a year or two, not anyone opting to do it soft-cap flash in a pan style.

I can add 2-3-4-5 strokes to my scores over the course of a year easily. GHIN does absolutely NOTHING to police this version of cheating.

I think you are correct here.
Using @PiratePenguin as an example. He is a mid capper who got soft capped due to going through a swing change. And its fairly current as he says. That seems like honest golf to me. I dont know why someone would be penalized for that, especially in an area with no season, but the new system makes it very hard to even have a cap move 3 points.

 

[JB]

Here's the scenario that could play out for me as I solve my game a bit more.

Currently I am playing better than my handicap. What does GHIN have in place to stop me from adding 2-3 strokes to my score until my next capped tournament in order to gain an advantage and keep my handicap where it is rather than getting it back down?

Who are you more concerned with, the guy who's doing that, or the five handicap who just came back from winter break and can't break 80 to save his life in 24?

Only one of them is policed.

Id be curious about @wadesworld perspective on this.
Because you are right. Its in place to stop the cheater, but in turn impacts the honest golfer just as much.

 

[baylrballa]

You think so? I don't disagree but if you play a lot more you're (likely?) more consistent with your score numbers.

I have an average score of 105.7 on my GHIN with a 24.3 being my handicap with a low of 24.1 in June of last year. I have a few scores that are keeping my handicap "lower" than it should be on average. I've been struggling, but it is what it is.

I also don't think that I'll hit soft cap when those fall off, but it should normalize a little bit higher.

I think if i played more there is a better chance of me having more abnormally good rounds. I have plenty of abnormally bad rounds already, but those don't count for anything.

 

[Canadan]

Id be curious about @wadesworld perspective on this.
Because you are right. Its in place to stop the cheater, but in turn impacts the honest golfer just as much.

I am being a bit crass here, but I would argue that it impacts the honest golfer FAR more.

 

[dmehrl23]

Do we need to be concerned about @PiratePenguin here

 

[Daluteh]

I think if i played more there is a better chance of me having more abnormally good rounds. I have plenty of abnormally bad rounds already, but those don't count for anything.

That's what happened to me. Lightning strikes - great round (or 9) and all of a sudden we're lower than we feel we should be. It goes down faster than it goes up. Either way I own my number and it'll be what it'll be; no one is going to mistake me for a single digit, but I'm far better than I was a couple years ago - so as long as I keep improving the only time I really risk a soft cap is during the start of the season, injury or big swing changes.

 

[wadesworld]

Id be curious about @wadesworld perspective on this.
Because you are right. Its in place to stop the cheater, but in turn impacts the honest golfer just as much.

This is going to be the biggest cop out in the history of cop outs. Handicap math makes my head hurt. I try hard to ignore it.

If they put me in charge of the World Handicap system, I'd have three edicts:
1). Handicaps are calculated ONLY for competitive rounds such as they used to do in Europe.
2). A new number called "Pseudo-Handicap" is reported, which is the combination of competitive rounds and self-reported casual rounds. This number is only used for a first-tournament handicap estimation, and personal progress tracking
3). Solo rounds are allowed to be reported for the inclusion in the Pseudo-handicap number.

It'd become pretty easy to compare someone's handicap with their pseudo handicap and see who was taking huge liberties in their reporting.

 

[Daluteh]

I am being a bit crass here, but I would argue that it impacts the honest golfer FAR more.

Just because you think cheaters will cheat no matter what?

Any kind of measuring system will always impact honest golfers more, since they are not intent on trying to manipulate the system.

Peer accountability is much better than an almost arbitrary number in some regards.

 

[Canadan]

Just because you think cheaters will cheat no matter what?

Any kind of measuring system will always impact honest golfers more, since they are not intent on trying to manipulate the system.

Peer accountability is much better than an almost arbitrary number in some regards.

cheaters don't wake up one day and start cheating. They've been cheating, their handicap is already finessed.

One of my favorite quotes from the guys who play big money games at my golf course said (mostly jokingly): "Never make a putt you don't need to"

Billy Bullshiter 'pulls' two three footers a round because his partner is already in with par, GHIN isn't coming after him.