SeeMore Putters MSeries Review - Forum Testing Review

[Jman]

@Jman I respect your opinion and knowledge of the flat stick so I have a question in regards to your statement. Couldn't we argue that the SPI method isn't just the physical but also the putter? The Rifle Scope is such a big part of the method as are the sight lines. These combined with the setup, make up the SPI method, no?
I think what transfers over is the proper setup which will make anyone a better putter. But with out the other two piece you are really guessing. You may get the head set correctly but how do you know, it becomes feel at that point. Thoughts?

Freddie, you could argue it either way, in the end its in the eye of the beholder.

To me, to be honest I don't actively use or look at the RST on course at this stage. Its a practice tool for me (and always has been in my previous runs with the VAST numbers of SeeMore's I have owned and gamed, even with a non-SPi technique) and with that I think it is a tool for position but that you can in fact carry over the same principles to other putters, I truly do. Just because it isn't there doesn't mean you are "guessing". Plus, as sitelines go, there are multiple variations on the SeeMore's and in the end that is all personal preference to what fits the individuals eye.

The RST and the SPi (O'Brien method) do fit together as a perfect compliment to eachother, no doubt, but you don't need to look any further than Pat's clientele to see that the RST isn't a true requirement (even though it makes it easier). Heck he coaches Cink, KJ, and Senden amongst others too and they aren't SeeMore users.

I see both sides of it, to me though, the SPi method is more than the RST and just because its there doesn't mean I'm guessing or going to feel, I think the method itself puts me in position and if you stick to that then there is no iffiness or guesswork to putting. I do know (and have ALWAYS said even pre-testing) that I'll always have at least one SeeMore in the arsenal so when things go awry I can go back to step one.

Just my take on it though Freddie, everyone is different and there's no right or wrong here IMO.

 

[Rekimoto]

Freddie, you could argue it either way, in the end its in the eye of the beholder.

To me, to be honest I don't actively use or look at the RST on course at this stage. Its a practice tool for me (and always has been in my previous runs with the VAST numbers of SeeMore's I have owned and gamed, even with a non-SPi technique) and with that I think it is a tool for position but that you can in fact carry over the same principles to other putters, I truly do. Just because it isn't there doesn't mean you are "guessing". Plus, as sitelines go, there are multiple variations on the SeeMore's and in the end that is all personal preference to what fits the individuals eye.

The RST and the SPi (O'Brien method) do fit together as a perfect compliment to eachother, no doubt, but you don't need to look any further than Pat's clientele to see that the RST isn't a true requirement (even though it makes it easier). Heck he coaches Cink, KJ, and Senden amongst others too and they aren't SeeMore users.

I see both sides of it, to me though, the SPi method is more than the RST and just because its there doesn't mean I'm guessing or going to feel, I think the method itself puts me in position and if you stick to that then there is no iffiness or guesswork to putting. I do know (and have ALWAYS said even pre-testing) that I'll always have at least one SeeMore in the arsenal so when things go awry I can go back to step one.

Just my take on it though Freddie, everyone is different and there's no right or wrong here IMO.

Just thinking about this a little more and I would say I agree with both of you. If you have a SeeMore putter and you apply the method and use the RST, you can develop a consistent setup and stroke. No doubt about it. You can then take that stroke and apply it when you are using other putters and as Jman says, i dont think you would be guessing at that point. I feel very comfortable in my setup and I can tell when something is off. The RST isnt really something I think about or actively engage when im putting, because whenever I setup now, the red dot is always hidden.

However, to Freddie's point....if you were to never own a SeeMore, but took the rest of the SPi method outside of the RST and applied it to your current putter, I do think that you would indeed be doing a little bit of guesswork when it comes to setting up your putter square to your target/having your shoulders level...etc. The things that the RST helps to ingrain and become a natural part of your setup.

So yes...working with the SPi method AND a SeeMore putter sets you up for success with any putter, regardless of RST or not in my opinion...yet I do think that if you apply the SPi to another putter from the get-go that, while you will probably see improvement (definitely better distance control), you will still be missing a part of the equation and will probably not have the same success as if you were to work on your stroke with a SeeMore.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I think you both make very good points and in my opinion, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Tadashi70]

Jman it's interesting to me that you don't use the RST when you play or don't pay attention to it.

 

[Jman]

Jman it's interesting to me that you don't use the RST when you play or don't pay attention to it.

I've always been that way, and I've always believed that alot of the reason alot of people get a SeeMore and don't care for it (other than the lack of SPi method, I'm a true believer there now) is that they focus in on the RST too much and forget that there are still other factors you need to be aware of (just not NEARLY as many if you are utilizing the SPi method). I know that with my setup the RST will be hidden because its the proper setup. I'll check it on the putting green and in practice but on course my sole focus is my line and my shoulder rock as I again know that my setup will be correct. Obviously if I see the red dot I adjust, but with my setup now its not really ever a concern or an issue with as much practice as I have put in.

Different strokes for different folks, but I know for a fact I'm not alone in that thought process. Everyone is different and I truly believe there is no one right way to use the RST. Could be in part to this not being my first rodeo with it on a long term basis.

 

[tequila4kapp]

I got a little practice time in today. Nothing fanstastic to report. It wasn't the most productive session, only because my head just wasn't in it and I was having a little trouble focusing. I followed the process and put good rolls on the ball. But it was pretty obvious that better focus = making better decisions and being more precise in following the process.

 

[Jman]

I got a little practice time in today. Nothing fanstastic to report. It wasn't the most productive session, only because my head just wasn't in it and I was having a little trouble focusing. I followed the process and put good rolls on the ball. But it was pretty obvious that better focus = making better decisions and being more precise in following the process.

At least you got out to practice though dude, something to be said for that and I'm sure there'll be some good taken from it. I know the days you speak of well though, when you need to go and do but never quite have that clarity and direction out there doing work. Happens to us all dude.


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[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

I know there has been a LOT of talk in here about how/if the SPi putting method would/could carry over to non-SeeMore putters. I get that its not the point of this thread but with so much emphasis on the SPi method I really wanted to chime in. Since I'm no also testing another couple putters for THP that are actually heel shafted this Q was raised again. I can tell you this, I had NO issued putting with my SPi method, and putting well. A simple move of the ball a bit forward in the stance and nothing else changed for me. Same grip, same stance, same rock of the shoulders. This just ADDS to the confidence for me in the SeeMore SPi method.

I would say that it depends on how far along you are with the method. If you have employed it with success with the SeeMore, I can certainly see why it carries over. If you are struggling.... then it doesn't matter what you have in your hands. Is it repeatable? Yes. Is it dependable? Yes. But you need to be comfortable with it first IMO.

 

[Jman]

I would say that it depends on how far along you are with the method. If you have employed it with success with the SeeMore, I can certainly see why it carries over. If you are struggling.... then it doesn't matter what you have in your hands. Is it repeatable? Yes. Is it dependable? Yes. But you need to be comfortable with it first IMO.

Couldn't agree more, like I said in my following posts. I'm not discounting the RST, I love it, hell, I have 3 custom putters with milling imitating its purpose, I'll always believe in it.

My point is just that the method CAN stand on its own and I for one love that fact. It just makes me appreciate SeeMore and their belief in the SPi method even more.


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[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

Couldn't agree more, like I said in my following posts. I'm not discounting the RST, I love it, hell, I have 3 custom putters with milling imitating its purpose, I'll always believe in it.

My point is just that the method CAN stand on its own and I for one love that fact. It just makes me appreciate SeeMore and their belief in the SPi even more.


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Dude, as a noob to this thread, I love the fact that you believe in it so strongly. It really makes me look forward to the days ahead when I get my hands on that amazing piece of flatstick goodness...

 

[Jman]

Dude, as a noob to this thread, I love the fact that you believe in it so strongly. It really makes me look forward to the days ahead when I get my hands on that amazing piece of flatstick goodness...

I'm ready for you to get it, it'll be fun to witness how it changes your game, it really will.

I think feathers got ruffled with my thoughts yesterday and that wasn't my intent, it's just my thoughts on it all. I love that the SPi will stand on its own for me with all putters, that's just another feather in SeeMore's cap for wanting to truly make people better putters. I dunno, just feel like I got some up in arms for sharing my thoughts, plus, we all know the internet is terrible for showing emotions! Haha


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[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

I'm ready for you to get it, it'll be fun to witness how it changes your game, it really will.

I think feathers got ruffled with my thoughts yesterday and that wasn't my intent, it's just my thoughts on it all. I love that the SPi will stand on its own for me with all putters, that's just another feather in SeeMore's cap for wanting to truly make people better putters. I dunno, just feel like I got some up in arms for sharing my thoughts.


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No sweat bro. True story- my fitter Tim told me a story about a letter sent by K.J. Choi to SeeMore AFTER he took their putter out of his bag. He said in the letter that he appreciated everything that they stand for and that they did for him and even though he wasn't gaming their putter at the moment, he wanted to thank them for making him a better putter. This to me speaks to EXACTLY what they are about. Amazing company.

 

[Jman]

No sweat bro. True story- my fitter Tim told me a story about a letter sent by K.J. Choi to SeeMore AFTER he took their putter out of his bag. He said in the letter that he appreciated everything that they stand for and that they did for him and even though he wasn't gaming their putter at the moment, he wanted to thank them for making him a better putter. This to me speaks to EXACTLY what they are about. Amazing company.

Yep, it's very cool, and he STILL putts the SPi way, with Pat as his coach. I love it.


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[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

Yep, it's very cool, and he STILL putts the SPi way, with Pat as his coach. I love it.


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Agreed. To me that speaks volumes as to what the company is truly about. Do they want to sell putters? Sure, but honestly, I don't feel like it is their main goal. They want to MAKE PEOPLE PUTT BETTER. This makes me want to support them forever.

 

[Jman]

Agreed. To me that speaks volumes as to what the company is truly about. Do they want to sell putters? Sure, but honestly, I don't feel like it is their main goal. They want to MAKE PEOPLE PUTT BETTER. This makes me want to support them forever.

Amen dude, and it's why I was so tickled when I took the other testing putter out and had success. It's also why I'll always cling to SeeMore...and why I own 4 mSeries putters right now! LOL!!!


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[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

Amen dude, and it's why I was so tickled when I took the other testing putter out and had success. It's also why I'll always cling to SeeMore...and why I own 4 mSeries putters right now! LOL!!!


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This says it all bro.

 

[BamBooBender]

Some great posts about the Spi method and the RST. I believe the method can totally stand on it's own. I also believe that the RST is a great tool. The two of them combined have certainly made me a better putter, not to mention the time I have spent practicing them.

Could I put the method to use with another putter? Yes.

Will I? I seriously doubt it. The mFGP is firmly in the bag.

Perfection is unattainable, but I'm fully convinced that the mFGP that I have been testing fits me well enough to reach my potential as a putter. I would love to have that same level of confidence in my other clubs.

 

[tequila4kapp]

I spent some time on the practice green working on short game again today.

I was contemplating today how the entire dynamic around putting is changing for me. Previously I would have characterized myself as a feel putter. If I wasn't making putts I would not objectively know why I was missing and would chalk it up to it just being one of those days when I was off. Looking back I feel like that was really a time of guesswork and luck. The current state is so different. If I really focus on picking my line and rock my shoulders the ball is probably going in the hole. If it doesn't go in the hole I can find an objective reason...and fix it. This really fits my Analysts' mind.

Coming back to my practice session...I realized I was setting the bar too low for myself with the 1 ball drill, so I changed the expecation and focused on getting up and down in 2 shots (I previously would strive for no more than 3 shots). My chipping and pitching was just okay but I was sinking a lot of first putts. I am definitely improving. Thank you SeeMore!

 

[Tadashi70]

September 23, 2012
SeeMore m5 testing
Lake Nona practice green
Hot and Humid
Bridgestone B330S

I have not been much in the mood to play much club this week with the wife being gone and the mountain of work I had I front of me. I tried several mornings but never could get it together. Today I had some time between my trip and some errands. So I loaded up, made a call and headed to Lake Nona.

I wanted to give this SPI method another go with a non SeeMore putter as well as my m5. I also wanted to putt on some lighting fast greens. Nona is the perfect place with a huge putting green with every type of breaking putt you could ask for.p

I started the session with speed drills to get the pace and then I worked on 'line' drills (the break of the green from ten feet with two tees placed on either side of the line about 2" a part.) I then moved to 20' left to rights and right to lefts. The speed of the green was quick, I mean the rolls were pure and fast. It didn't take much effort to get the ball rolling and they just seemed to keep rolling once started. Nothing was left short and I made a good number of twenty footers. The line drill is a must not to mention fun.

When I was good and hot I switched to putter 'B' and putt it through the same drills I had just done with the m5. I have to admit it was really surprised at how much the two mirrored each other. Outside of the feel off the face, look and weight the results where scarily similar. Granted I didn't make as many but I chalk that up to lack of use. I think my very tall friend JMAN had a great point and I put it to the test. The SPI technique if learned can be used with any flat stick.

The SPI method combined with my m5 have made me the best putter I have ever been. I make more putts now then ever before. The teachings are solid and method just last out works. If you struggle with your putting I suggest you look into the SeeMore method and a Seemore putter.

 

[thedue]

Nice job Freddie, I bet Lake Nona was extremely fast compared to anything I frequent. I must agree about the technique, since dawning the SeeMore I've became a much better putter, the numbers just don't lie.

 

[Tadashi70]

Nice job Freddie, I bet Lake Nona was extremely fast compared to anything I frequent. I must agree about the technique, since dawning the SeeMore I've became a much better putter, the numbers just don't lie.

Thanks Due, the proof is in the putting

 

[Jman]

Good stuff Freddie, its an interesting thing. Obviously, its nice to have the RST there for us at all times, but its nice to know for me personally that whatever has to be in the bag at the putter spot at a given time I can still putt with it without any real concerns.

That said, I really do think I'll always go back to a SeeMore now when the discretion is mine, why jack with a good and confident thing, ya know?

(I'm not that tall! LOL)

 

[Buckjob]

just saw this on SeeMores Website this morning and actually played the game against myself in my practice session today had to make so many to move onto the next part of practice. they really have so many great resources on the website to help with your putting. i love looking at all the different drills. These are all speed and distance control drills.



Speed Instinct Drills
1. Draw-Back
Either alone or in competition, draw-back is one of the best games to develop better speed instincts. Every putt that doesn’t reach the hole must be drawn back a club length farther away from the hole. So if a putt is left three feet short of the hole, the player will end up hitting their next putt from approximately 6 feet (If putter is around 35 inches). Each putt that reaches the hole or travels past the hole we will be played traditionally.

Of course, if one competitor is putting with a long putter, hopefully their competitor with the shorter putter will show some mercy and allow everyone to only move the ball back about three feet.

Draw-back teaches the golfers to consider speed when preparing for the putt, because it promotes every player to get the ball to the hole and give it a chance to go in.

It’s a great game that gets everyone to focus on speed while enjoying competition!

2. Eyes Closed
After setting up to the ball utilizing RifleScope Technology (RST), practicing hitting putts with the eyes closed enhances feel and can build confidence in speed control.

After hitting the putter, you can also try walking to the hole with your eyes close and attempt to put the club where you think the hole is. This really helps depth perception and confidence of distance.

3. Speed Zone
Sit a club or alignment stick 18 inches behind a hole and practice getting all putts to the hole while not hitting the club behind it. You should lay the club perpendicular to the target line.

How to Match Line and Speed?
When consistent contact is achieved, a golfer can correctly develop feel for distance control. By having a correct, neutral setup, the putter can swing as it was designed. Essentially, only one variable remains - the length of the backswing will control the length of the putt. When the golfer does not have to worry about stroke related thoughts, the focus can be on creating a good picture and tapping into the instincts. This is the only true way to match line and speed.

 

[Tadashi70]

Speed is what I live by in the greens. I also sometimes putt while looking at the hole, great distance control drill.

 

[Buckjob]

Date: September 23, 2012
Temp/conditions: 65*/ Perfect conditions
Green Speed conditions: Medium Fast
Course: Penn National The Founders Course

Total Putts: 30
GIR: 9/18
Putts Per GIR: 2.1
Putts Per Hole: 1.7


First off i'd like to apologize for my absence in the testing thread over the last few weeks. i had some very difficult personal things come up in my life that had taken me away from THP and honestly golf was one of the last things on my mind for the first time in a very long time. I know THP and SeeMore deserve better but i needed to get my head right and deal with some things. That being said the opportunity to get my mind back on golf and to start clearing my mind from everything that has happened has already happened. My Pro Am is Friday so starting 2 days ago i started my practicing again and yesterday i played my first round since everything happened.

I'll be honest with everyone my game has suffered a lot not playing for 2 weeks i can't remember the last time i hadn't really hit a bucket or played in such a long time. The good news is although my putting is a little rusty i think that was the quickest part of my game thats coming back. 2 days ago i played short game games with myself and had to get up and in from all around the green on the fairways and rough and sand so i got back into my putting routine. i started my routine just like i had when i first got my SeeMore and it was like an old friend and it helped me with my confidence which is another thing that i am lacking right now but is slowing starting to build. Todays practice really helped me there but i'll get to that after my round recap yesterday.

Yesterday i went to Chambersburg,PA which is about 2.5 hours from my house to play at Penn National Golf Course with a very good old friend of mine. Hes known me since middle school and we have played a lot of golf together over the years and even though he moved far away we still play at least a few rounds of golf together each year. We just played last right before i got my SeeMore for testing. And he knows my game really well and knows i have always struggled with my putting. Yesterday i really wanted to play well for a few reasons. #1 i wanted to show Drew my buddy how far my game has improved with all the work i had been putting in and with my lessons. #2 i wanted to show him the i finally was putting the way i should have been for all the years i've known him especially with all the practice time i putt into it. and #3 i wanted to play well to build my confidence before this Pro Am and to know i was getting my game back on track before Friday.

Well my round was decent all in all i was happy with how i played i made some mistakes more than i normally would but i still scored well and i started off really well. The biggest surprise was my scrambling ability and my putting had a good amount to do with that. i scrambled for par 50% of the time yesterday. and i started off with a par and birdie and was even till hole 8 and 9 when i bogeyed the both so i was only +2 on the front and that was with 16 putts and 2 three putts. both of them were just mental mistakes and bad putts. which i honestly expected more of yesterday. It really sucks that i 3 putt those holes i should have been even on the front if it wasn't for those mental mistakes. but i made a good birdie putt on #2 and i scrambled on 2 other holes from really tough spots to save par. It was nice having the comfort of the RST yesterday i really needed something to help me clear my head yesterday especially with how mental putting is and my routine and the RST were my rock yesterday i know i messed up with the 2 three putts but that was expected after the week i just had i really didn't expect to shoot anywhere close to what i did. but my putting was very solid all day long. and i was making some longer putts the birdie putt was an 8 foot breaker that fell right in the middle of the hole and most of my 2 putts were tap in pars. Just like i was before i took the time off from playing.

The back 9 i struggled a little more especially off the tee. but again i scrambled well. and saved par more than a few times. i only hit 3 GIR on the back 9 as well. But i had 6 Pars. i had 2 putt all of the GIR i had on the back and had another 3 1 putts to save pars on another 3 holes one was even a sand save that i hit my sand shot to 6' and drained the putt. it was nice seeing my scrambling so good. i really needed it and even if my game is much better by friday which i think it will be i am gonna need to scramble well and make putts to play well. The two other guys i got paired up with yesterday both had played the Country Club im playing on Friday and told me how difficult it is. I just laughed just what i needed to hear when i felt the way i did...... but i am looking forward to the challenge. So all in all with only 14 putts on the back and no 3 putts i felt really good about my putting for the days round. i'll take 30 putts any day especially when without those 2 mental mistakes on the front it would have been 28 putts. which sounds much better even with such a low GIR. The important thing was for me getting back into my routine and feeling confident in my putting which i def accomplished. And it was pretty easy with the SeeMore System and RST. i think thats another thing that i wouldn't have thought of testing out especially in the thread now. i mean i had been playing 2-3 times a week since the testing had started and i never would have thought i'd take 2 weeks off from golf for the most part. But i think even after like the off season for people that use the SeeMore it is an easy transition back to your routine and its also always something you can practice during the winter months inside. to keep it fresh.

I also wanted to touch on todays practice session i went to my local chip and putt i played 9 holes with 2 balls a hole. so in theory 18 holes of chip and putt. all of the holes are 60-120 yards so its really easy to get a GIR or close. i usually shoot even to -2 when i play there with 2 balls a hole like i did today. but today i shot -7. i drained about 3 LONG putts and the other birdie putts only 2 were within 3 feet. Today i felt so good about my putting i made a 20' breaking putt on the 9th hole with my second ball to finish my round. that felt SO good. today really helped my confidence although it was on slower greens it still really helped me a lot. I'll be playing another round tomorrow and i'll have a write up on that as well. Really so lucky to have been picked to test this putter out. its really improved my putting so much and given me the confidence to make more putts. i need to keep that confidence growing for friday which is prob gonna be the toughest round of golf i have ever played in my 16 year golfing career and i honestly CAN'T wait!!!!!

 

[Hawk]

Buck! First, don't apologize for a second dude. There are things that take precedence over golf and forum testing and you don't need to explain that.

Second, I saw two pretty awesome stats there. 50% scrambling and -7 on your par 3 course. That's got to be great for your confidence. While I'm not at 50% for scrambling, I've converted more often this year due to better putting and wedge play and I think it's the only reason my scores have been where they are.

You're setting yourself up to play a great round on Friday buddy. Just trust it and you'll do fine.