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"Jack thinks the USGA is close to rolling back the ball"

SuperStroke
golfinFF said:
agreed blu, the old man is ruining his reputation with the younger golfers IMO as he attacks the way they play golf.
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May be getting a little senile in his old age. The ball isn't the issue as the ball will only go where the swing allows. Distance may be longer yet scores are relatively the same.
 
Everything reaches a peak then starts back to its roots. I can see this happening in the next couple of years
 
lmh3 said:
I feel that the USGA is dangerously close to making themselves seen as an enemy, rather than a protector of the game. By changing rules and conformity of equipment based on the top .5% of golfers that will impact everyone seems silly and reactive to me. I also think that this would lead to companies making non conforming balls and equipment for the amateur golfers and would lead to bifurcation of the game.
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Completely agree.
 
I agree with so many of the posts on here! Like JB said, Jack had no problems when he was overpowering courses and using the advantages of his length. Yep, he sells balls, course designs, re-designs, etc. This dude is making a LOT of money off of this length "problem". Now that he has a ball company, you think he'd be right there with a new ball for the new rule? Yep! Merion was too short... Heck, Tom Watson almost won the Open at St Andrew's last time it was there. So what if guys are getting bomb patches each week- are they the winners? Nope. And as was mentioned, it isn't like scores are drastically lower than the past. Anyway, Jack just needs to stop and someone needs to have the balls to say it. No one will. They'd lose their job...
 
Always interesting to see this pop up again. I do find it a bit ironic him arguing this.
 
Pkielwa said:
I agree with so many of the posts on here! Like JB said, Jack had no problems when he was overpowering courses and using the advantages of his length. Yep, he sells balls, course designs, re-designs, etc. This dude is making a LOT of money off of this length "problem". Now that he has a ball company, you think he'd be right there with a new ball for the new rule? Yep! Merion was too short... Heck, Tom Watson almost won the Open at St Andrew's last time it was there. So what if guys are getting bomb patches each week- are they the winners? Nope. And as was mentioned, it isn't like scores are drastically lower than the past. Anyway, Jack just needs to stop and someone needs to have the balls to say it. No one will. They'd lose their job...
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Interesting point about Merion. I was there for two days at the US Open and it was really awesome to see how they've transformed a 100 year old course into a really tough golf course that challenges the worlds best players. It's one thing to have a tough and long course, but it's delightfully twisted to see how demented a tough but short course can be. You can see the details or perspective on TV - you need to see it yourself.
 
USGA and R&A could spend more time on rules that increase pace of play.

Are scores really that ridiculously better than 20 years ago that they need to keep messing with equipment rules? If they really want to get scores back up in the higher digits just slow down the greens and let the fairways grow out some. This way the PGA can play in the same conditions as the rest of us golfers.
 
lmh3 said:
I feel that the USGA is dangerously close to making themselves seen as an enemy, rather than a protector of the game. By changing rules and conformity of equipment based on the top .5% of golfers that will impact everyone seems silly and reactive to me. I also think that this would lead to companies making non conforming balls and equipment for the amateur golfers and would lead to bifurcation of the game.
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I agree. I grew up respecting the USGA but today, I don't feel they are following their age old mission. They are basing any and all changes based on what 0.01% of the worlds golfers (world class player) are doing, and not thinking at all about the other 99.9% (you and me).

I just wonder, if they make changes to be ball to take lets say 50 yards away from the world class professionals, what will it take away from the rest of us? I still believe the answer is a tour only ball from each OEM and leave the ball limits where they are at for us. All the groove rule change did was cost the OEM's millions of dollars which they are getting back from us in higher prices. It had zero effect on the tours as intended.
 
HoosierGolfer said:
I agree. I grew up respecting the USGA but today, I don't feel they are following their age old mission. They are basing any and all changes based on what 0.01% of the worlds golfers (world class player) are doing, and not thinking at all about the other 99.9% (you and me).

I just wonder, if they make changes to be ball to take lets say 50 yards away from the world class professionals, what will it take away from the rest of us? I still believe the answer is a tour only ball from each OEM and leave the ball limits where they are at for us. All the groove rule change did was cost the OEM's millions of dollars which they are getting back from us in higher prices. It had zero effect on the tours as intended.
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Problem solved.
 
I wouldn't have a problem with a tour only ball and one for everyone else. I know many would though because they want tour spec equipment so they can compare themself to a pro.

Its going to be hard to roll it back imo. I guess the top events will have to continue narrowing fairways and growing rough longer to counter the ball length and protect some of the older courses.
 
JManni62 said:
Problem solved.
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I don't even believe that is a solution. I think that would be a PGA Tour rule anyways. Which throws the US Open out of whack.

The right answer, change nothing.
 
blugold said:
I don't even believe that is a solution. I think that would be a PGA Tour rule anyways. Which throws the US Open out of whack.

The right answer, change nothing.
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The R&A/USGA could adopt the same rule for specific competitions, but then it becomes one big clusterfook. Still, I don't have a problem with one set of ball standards for upper echelon play.
 
JManni62 said:
The R&A/USGA could adopt the same rule for specific competitions, but then it becomes one big clusterfook. Still, I don't have a problem with one set of ball standards for upper echelon play.
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I guess, I do. For what reason? It isn't because scores haven't gone down, especially for the 99.99% of golfers that make the USGA relevant. The pros are not ruining or changing the game for us amateurs. To enact any rule change because of the longest hitters of the best golfers is just dumb.
 
I sincerely don't think it will happen any time soon. I HOPE it doesn't anyway. It's all about $'s and that is disappointing. If I had to play a wound Balata ball right now, I'd have to tee it forward to up around the ladies tee. Probably have to borrow one of TNT's dresses.

Isn't Jack a proponent of enlarging the size of the hole as well?

JM
 
So then what happens when the US open and The Open Championship come around. Two sets of equipment rules one for pros and one for a amateurs who are competing in the same tournament. I don't like the idea of a tour only ball. The ball is not the issue I firmly believe that. Jack maybe a pioneer but he is wrong in this case.
 
It should be obvious to all by now where the problem with the game lies. First, it was the grooves then it was belly putters and now it's the ball. It's about time the USGA realizes the core of the problem is good golfers. Anybody with a single digit handicap or better just needs to be banned from the game. It's painfully obvious that is where all the problems with golf begin. If it wasn't for these "good" golfers all of the problems with golf would instantly vanish. It's not the equipment it's people with too much talent. Remove them from the game immediately!
 
Johnny mojo said:
I sincerely don't think it will happen any time soon. I HOPE it doesn't anyway. It's all about $'s and that is disappointing. If I had to play a wound Balata ball right now, I'd have to tee it forward to up around the ladies tee. Probably have to borrow one of TNT's dresses.

Isn't Jack a proponent of enlarging the size of the hole as well?

JM
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Funny you say that because I just read how the USGA want to incorporate bigger holes but not refer to it as golf. WHAT? I like golf the way it is, stop messing with it please!
 
Harry Arnett had an interesting take on this very thing in the THP Podcast we just put up last week.
 
My guess is the manufacturers will have a major problem with any kind of ball bifurcation given how that market. How do you use pros to market a ball, or equipment for that matter, when they have to use completely different ones? Not sure how strong there lobby is with the USGA now though. Seems like it would be easier to create bifurcation through course set up than dialing stuff back.
 
TBH, Jack's incessant barking about this issue makes me lose a little respect for him. It's a little too closely tied to his ego and legacy, like he's beating the "I went to school in 19 feet of snow uphill both ways when I was you age" drum. Like another post said, he had no issues setting up his courses as some of the longest and toughest out there so his name carries weight in architectural circles, but then turns around and claims the modern ball is endangering golf. Just leave this issue alone, it's fine thanks.


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I have only skimmed the thread and maybe this was already brought up but...

Why not just make the fairways softer and tighter, The rough longer and more penalizing, and the greens firmer and faster?

These are the best players in the world..Make it HARD!!!
 
Johnny mojo said:
I sincerely don't think it will happen any time soon. I HOPE it doesn't anyway. It's all about $'s and that is disappointing. If I had to play a wound Balata ball right now, I'd have to tee it forward to up around the ladies tee. Probably have to borrow one of TNT's dresses.

Isn't Jack a proponent of enlarging the size of the hole as well?

JM
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I think the other way. There is little doubt in my mind that they are looking at the ball and there will be new limits on the ball, sooner than later.
 
HoosierGolfer said:
I think the other way. There is little doubt in my mind that they are looking at the ball and there will be new limits on the ball, sooner than later.
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If that does happen, I hope the USGA shrivels up and goes away. If they roll the ball back, it proves how superfluous they really are.
 
blugold said:
If that does happen, I hope the USGA shrivels up and goes away. If they roll the ball back, it proves how superfluous they really are.
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And hypocrites. It woul be a sad day for lots of people I think.
 
Although I personally don't have a problem with the pros using a tour spec ball (downside: the start of bifurcation) - I have to agree with the comments about Nicklaus. He complained about grooves, he complained about belly putters, and now he is on a rant about the golf ball. I'm not sure if it's his ego as a player or course designer that's fueling it, but he really needs to give it a rest.
 
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