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Westwood Attacks PGA Tour

JB said:
Let me ask this in this thread. Since everybody is so up in arms about Rory not winning, let me put it another way.

If Martin Kaymer joined the PGA Tour this year and won a tournament or two, could he be named PGA Tour ROY? Should he be allowed to?
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Damn you and your logic. Reason has no place on internet forums!
 
JB said:
Let me ask this in this thread. Since everybody is so up in arms about Rory not winning, let me put it another way.

If Martin Kaymer joined the PGA Tour this year and won a tournament or two, could he be named PGA Tour ROY? Should he be allowed to?
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sure, because he is a PGA Tour rookie. It's the same type of argument they have in baseball. When Ichiro comes over from playing professionally in Japan, should he be allowed to be considered a Rookie, even though he already had over 1,000 hits in his career. Now what's funny is when Hideki Matsui came over, he finished 2nd in the ROY voting because writers said he wasn't a true rookie, though that stance softened again a few years later. I know that's a little different, but in some ways similar.

Not sure if it's right or not.
 
JB said:
Let me ask this in this thread. Since everybody is so up in arms about Rory not winning, let me put it another way.

If Martin Kaymer joined the PGA Tour this year and won a tournament or two, could he be named PGA Tour ROY? Should he be allowed to?
Click to expand...

The rules which define someone as no 1 in the world were declared as wrong many times here, so I suppose it was only a matter of time before the rules which define whether someone is a rookie or not were given similar treatment!

Incidently, I do agree on both counts, however its only when the rules work against US players that you all get up in arms!
 
Rory is not a true rookie,he played 11 tournaments in 2009.With this ,how could he be a rookie in 2010?
 
Does anyone else really care what Westwood thinks....

He got his #1 ranking... his 15 minutes of fame so he better enjoy it. Come 2011 when Tiger starts playing or even Kaymer kiss that #1 spot bye bye.
 
ddec0418 said:
sure, because he is a PGA Tour rookie. It's the same type of argument they have in baseball. When Ichiro comes over from playing professionally in Japan, should he be allowed to be considered a Rookie, even though he already had over 1,000 hits in his career. Now what's funny is when Hideki Matsui came over, he finished 2nd in the ROY voting because writers said he wasn't a true rookie, though that stance softened again a few years later. I know that's a little different, but in some ways similar.

Not sure if it's right or not.
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Last time I checked Ichiro did not get to compete in the World Series (majors). Not a fair analogy.

Putty Man said:
The rules which define someone as no 1 in the world were declared as wrong many times here, so I suppose it was only a matter of time before the rules which define whether someone is a rookie or not were given similar treatment!

Incidently, I do agree on both counts, however its only when the rules work against US players that you all get up in arms!
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I agree, however the world rankings are combining tours. That is the biggest issue. This award is strictly a PGA Tour award.
 
Westwood does bring up some good points, however it comes across as sour grapes to me. It's unnecessary to be saying that. If Rory did play in 11 events in 2009, he was not a rookie in 2010 plain and simple. Rory's a great player and definitely worthy of all the praise he gets, but between Rickie and Rory, Rickie is PGA Tour ROY.
 
Maybe I am not understanding this correctly and I can only speak for myself but I do not agree with you. I could care less what country someone is from. If they are the legitimate winner of an award than I am happy for them. I am an American but I was cheering for McDowell to win yesterday because I like the guy. Maybe I am different then the norm but I never consider national origin when cheering for a player. I would not be up in arms if McIlroy won IF he were a rookie, but I agree with most that you can't consider a guy who played 11 times the year before to be a rookie. Is he a better player than Fowler? Probably and his stats will most likely show that but how can you call him a true rookie in 2010?

Putty Man said:
The rules which define someone as no 1 in the world were declared as wrong many times here, so I suppose it was only a matter of time before the rules which define whether someone is a rookie or not were given similar treatment!

Incidently, I do agree on both counts, however its only when the rules work against US players that you all get up in arms!
Click to expand...
 
If Dustin Johnson (just an example) moved over to the Euro Tour next year and had some success would he be deserving of a ROY award?
 
Hawk said:
If Dustin Johnson (just an example) moved over to the Euro Tour next year and had some success would he be deserving of a ROY award?
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He would ground his club in a bunker and lose out.
 
Putty Man said:
The rules which define someone as no 1 in the world were declared as wrong many times here, so I suppose it was only a matter of time before the rules which define whether someone is a rookie or not were given similar treatment!

Incidently, I do agree on both counts, however its only when the rules work against US players that you all get up in arms!
Click to expand...

You still haven't responded to Rory playing 11 events in '09. How should he be eligible for a rookie award in 2010? It seems his chance to win ROY was last year and he didn't get it done then.


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JB said:
Last time I checked Ichiro did not get to compete in the World Series (majors). Not a fair analogy.
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What about Matsuzaka if you talk about the World Baseball Classic then.

Here is a another example. Michelle Wie finished 3rd in ROY voting in 2009. She played in 22 events from the time she turned pro at the end of 2005. Would you consider her a Rookie in 2009?
 
Hawk said:
If Dustin Johnson (just an example) moved over to the Euro Tour next year and had some success would he be deserving of a ROY award?
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Deserving - could be argued either way.
Winning - yes he would win it, them's the rules.
 
ddec0418 said:
What about Matsuzaka if you talk about the World Baseball Classic then.

Here is a another example. Michelle Wie finished 3rd in ROY voting in 2009. She played in 22 events from the time she turned pro at the end of 2005. Would you consider her a Rookie in 2009?
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4 events a year as an amateur golfer are not the same as 11 events on the PGA Tour in the manner that Rory played them. You cannot be serious with that analogy.

Putty Man said:
Deserving - could be argued either way.
Winning - yes he would win it, them's the rules.
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Something tells me that you would be having this same debate but in reverse if these events took place. :alien: Playing 11 events the year before kept him from winning the award.
 
RxGus said:
You still haven't responded to Rory playing 11 events in '09. How should he be eligible for a rookie award in 2010? It seems his chance to win ROY was last year and he didn't get it done then.


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Sorry, hadn't realised a response was needed.

If the rule was that 12 events were needed to remove rookie status?

My opinion on how a rookie is defined doesn't matter here. In fact I have no idea what the rules are. Does anyone know if Rory was even elidgible, officially?

This thread is turning into an arguement over the rules which define whether a player is a rookie or not. I will assume for now that Rory is defined as a rookie, and hence should have been a lock for ROY, IMO.
 
Putty Man said:
===== QUOTE Hawk ====

If Dustin Johnson (just an example) moved over to the Euro Tour next year and had some success would he be deserving of a ROY award?

===== /QUOTE ====



Deserving - could be argued either way.
Winning - yes he would win it, them's the rules.
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Hmm. I honestly have no idea what the actual rules regarding ROY are on either tour. To me, that sort of goes against the spirit of the award, but that is just my opinion, of course.

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Putty Man said:
If the rule was that 12 events were needed to remove rookie status?
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What if the rule was that you had to have won a major to be World #1? Would anybody care about Lee Westwood's tweets?
 
I think Tiger Woods should go to the Euro Tour and win Rookie of the Year. That might keep Mr. Westwood quiet (for a whole bunch of reasons).
 
JB said:
Something tells me that you would be having this same debate but in reverse if these events took place. :alien: Playing 11 events the year before kept him from winning the award.
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If Dustin Johnson came to play on the Euro tour he could win announcer of the year, referee of the year and caddie of the year, and no one would mind!
 
JB said:
4 events a year as an amateur golfer are not the same as 11 events on the PGA Tour in the manner that Rory played them. You cannot be serious with that analogy.
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She played in 8, 7, and 7. Which includes majors. Plus she was considered a "professional" and not an amateur when she announced to she was turning pro in October 2005. I could be wrong on this and I'm sure you know more about it than I.
 
This is from wikipedia so not the most reliable source but this is what they said...I am still looking for a better source
"The Rookie of the Year award was also introduced in 1990.[20] Players are eligible in their first season of PGA Tour membership; several of the winners had a good deal of international success before their PGA Tour rookie season, and some have been in their thirties when they won the award."
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ddec0418 said:
She played in 8, 7, and 7. Which includes majors. Plus she was considered a "professional" and not an amateur when she announced to she was turning pro in October 2005. I could be wrong on this and I'm sure you know more about it than I.
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So you would be okay with Tiger Woods winning rookie of the year on the Euro Tour or Martin Kaymer winning it over here? Really? That is what makes some of the PGA Tour rules ridiculous. Just like a guy winning comeback player of the year 2 years in a row. Its absurd. The two tours are not a level playing field despite what some believe and if Rory wanted to be rookie of the year, he had his chance when he was a rookie playing in double digit events as a professional.

Its a horrible rule that they have in place and guarantee it will be changed this year.
 
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