LeBron to the NFL?!?!?!

[Nicklausfan]

He might as well. I wish more people had my mentality, in that now that there's a lock out in the NBA, I'll never watch another game or support those greedy bastards. What a slap in the face these over paid premadonna's do to the American public. We've been through/are going through the worst economy in my life time and these guys want more money? Palease!!!! I'm done with all of them.

That's the thing...all of these guys whether it's the MLB, NHL, NFL (loved the quote from one player...maybe L.T. said "we're treated like slaves") and the NBA forget one thing. It's we who pay the salaries through going to games, watching on the t.v. or through the purchase of licensed apparel.

Alex

 

[Nicklausfan]

LeBron as an effective WR or TE. Any idea what his 40 is around?

Alex

 

[blugold]

Nobody said he did not have other great players on his team. So did Magic & Larry and they are still looked at as some of the greatest. He absolutely carried that team, so much so that he was the guy that called the plays on the court and coached as well. Carrying a team is not always about scoring the most points. If that was the case, Wilt and Jabar would always be called the greatest ever.

Last time I checked, Jordan did not win without other HOFers either.

My argument is that Russell was the missing piece for the Celtic teams in the 50's.

 

[One-T]

I think Lebron could effectively play the TE position in the NFL.

I do too!

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

I still see him being able to be somewhat effective if he tries. Football is a much different sport than baseball - going back to the Jordan analogy. If Tony Gonzalez could do it and become an All- Pro, LBJ could work his way into someone's lineup.

 

[gapwedge]

As much of an athlete that he is, he would be perfect as a defender in teams "nickle" pacage on the goal line -- when they run that fade to the corner he could definitely out reach any wr for the ball. Call Holmgren in Cleveland and get a tryout!

 

[Damaikis]

I think the GOAT argument depends on what you think of as "great". If it means dominant, Wilt is likely it. He scored 100 points in a game and he did it mostly on the fast break. He did it because his opponent (I don't remember who) said that they would beat him by outrunning him because he was slow. So he outran them. He also averaged close to 40 and 20 for a season or two, and I think he also had 7-8 assists that year. IMO, Wilt is the most dominant. Best? Maybe not.

If it is based on success/leadership, then I'd say it's Russell for all of the things argued before this. There are so many different options to choose from and all were great in different ways.

 

[mhachtx]

I think the GOAT argument depends on what you think of as "great". If it means dominant, Wilt is likely it. He scored 100 points in a game and he did it mostly on the fast break. He did it because his opponent (I don't remember who) said that they would beat him by outrunning him because he was slow. So he outran them. He also averaged close to 40 and 20 for a season or two, and I think he also had 7-8 assists that year. IMO, Wilt is the most dominant. Best? Maybe not.

If it is based on success/leadership, then I'd say it's Russell for all of the things argued before this. There are so many different options to choose from and all were great in different ways.

I don't agree with Simmons very often , but in his book he explains all the knocks on Wilt and he isn't in the running for GOAT.

 

[d_in_la]

Im wondering if you saw Russell play?
Wouldnt the greatest of all time be the guy that carried the team to the most titles if its a team sport?
If not, wouldnt it be the guy that had the most points ever?
I mean dont get me wrong, MJ changed the game and was the best of his era, but so were so many before him in their own era.
People are quick to give the GOAT moniker because they did not see prior eras and want to be able to witness what was/is the best.

JB, valid points.

When I refer to MJ as the GOAT, I'm referring to the modern game, which many consider to be post merger / 1977 season on. (I know, "Modern Game" ... I tred lightly!) I also think Magic, in particular, has some claim to that title, unfortunately, his career ended before his body of work was done. Would Magic have been the GOAT if not for his early retirement? Definitely a case could be made. Bird, while dominant, was only dominant on one end of the court. Bird was a good team defender and a horrible on-ball defender. And he too had a career shortened by injury. And arguably, and even to Bird's words, Magic was the better player.

I would be less likely to bestow GOAT if so many former players didn't give Jordan that same due. And trust me, I am not an MJ fan. I think he's selfish and kind of a jerk. One of the least authentic public-to-personal personas of all time. But that dude could ball like no other and did take the NBA to a new level of popularity in attendance and culture in general. It is that body of work - on court and what he did for the NBA that makes me comfortable in calling MJ the GOAT. Magic and Bird saved the league, Jordan made it explode. And that second three-peat after he returned from his dalliance with baseball. That's just mind boggling.

Prior to the modern era, I'd say Russell was the GOAT. The Godfather. I'm not sure this is even arguable. I defy you to find a player from that era who disagrees. Hell the guy won two titles as player-coach. He is also an incredible humanitarian which I respect deeply. I totally get how not giving GOAT to Russell is a bit of a travesty.

West was phenomenal. Hell he's the logo. There is a famous clip after one of the series ('67 I think) where Red Auerbach and Bill Russell are embracing and speaking to the reporter after their champagne shower and Auerbach lauds West as an incredible player, best player on the court for that series (I think). However as awesome as he was as a player, his true gift to the game came as a GM. Even West will admit his failure to win the big titles keeps him from that GOAT conversation and regularly recognizes MJ as such. And if MJ is good enough for Jerry West ...

Wilt was also incredible. Offensively and defensively. He also was a horrible free throw shooter and sometimes shrank from the big moments. Wilt was also crazy athletic. He could score dunking, taking jumpshots, and the finger roll (queue George Gervin). However, as good as he was, he never beat Russell and to put MJ in perspective, MJ has the highest career scoring average...and Wilt once AVERAGED 50 points a game over a season. That's just freaking insane. Two titles and I think he still holds the rebounding title, right?

Kareem bridged both eras, IMHO. And Kareem is my favorite basketball player of all time. Bar none. I know he can be a bit onery, but on and off the court the guy is impressive. I've met quite a few of these guys, more than simple interactions when signing an autograph, and Kareem is sharp. He's one of the few professional athletes who is also an intellectual. And seriously, is there a single more devastating, un-blockable shot than the skyhook? Ridiculous it isn't a staple for big men around the league. Although it is deceptively hard to do as consistently as Kareem did.

Oscar Robertson - he averaged a triple-double one season! And I think he was the lead name in a law suit about NBA free agency.

So that's my 2cents. I go with MJ as the GOAT. And Russell as the Godfather.

 

[tgtt]

The Dream Shake is more unblockable than The Sky Hook.

I'll take a flyer with LeBron if he wants to wear Black and Gold.

 

[fishymehta]

@d_i_la,


What are you saying? You're commending everybody on their achievements, but who do you​ think is GOAT?

 

[d_in_la]

The Dream Shake is more unblockable than The Sky Hook.

I really loved watching Hakeem, and I don't want to in anyway diminish how RIDICULOUS the The Dream Shake is, however I disagree. Primarily because the Dream shake wasn't a shot, it was a move that lead to a traditional shot. In the same way that the crossover isn't a shot. But if that was my only argument, I'd be one pretentious nit picking jerk, right? :angel: The Dream Shake is based on deception, if you guess correctly, you've stopped the move. Again, don't get me wrong, it is DEVASTATING, the cause of many "oooo!" as I flinched back from the TV set. That being said, I've seen the shots setup afterwards blocked many times. (Actually, when I watch the steps of Dirk's step-back jumper, another incredibly difficult to block shot, I see shades of The Dream Shake mixed in with Jordan's fall-away jumper.)

The SkyHook you knew it was coming, maybe not from which hand, but you knew it was coming, and you could do nothing to stop it. Not only do you not see the release point until the last second because the shooter never squares up, if you're tall enough, the only way to block it is to goal tend. I can only remember Wilt, Hakeem, maybe The Chief, blocking it, but that's about it - and I'm talking a handful of times over a 20 year career. Can you imagine that? A 20 year career and your signature shot has only been blocked enough times to count on one hand? That's insane.

Oh man, The Dream Shake ... <whistles> ... just made people look foolish. Still think it is more of a deke than a shot.

@d_i_la,


What are you saying? You're commending everybody on their achievements, but who do you​ think is GOAT?

Jordan is the GOAT.

I was just diving into my thoughts on other contenders and making a distinction of the Post and Pre ABA-NBA merger.

 

[pjcedog]

I think MJ has to be called the greatest ever because he had both tremendous individual stats and also the titles to go with them, he made everyone around him better.

 

[fishymehta]

I think MJ has to be called the greatest ever because he had both tremendous individual stats and also the titles to go with them, he made everyone around him better.

That's so true.... guys today like Kobe and LeBron put everyone else into their shadows (except now, since Wade is with LeBron). MJ sort of let other guys into his shadow, like Pippen...

 

[JB]

That's so true.... guys today like Kobe and LeBron put everyone else into their shadows (except now, since Wade is with LeBron). MJ sort of let other guys into his shadow, like Pippen...

Im not sure thats a fair statement at all. Heck, MJ was considered a selfish player during his prime when compared to what he took over for in Bird and Magic. He was a one on one basketball player at his arrival and changed the game because of that. Sure because of his talent other guys found openings, but most experts would say James is just as good if not a better passer (although both leave their feet).

Calling James more selfish than him is like comparing MJ to James before Pippen arrived. The teams were not good and while he made the playoffs, they did not do very well in terms of finishing. Very similar to James in Cleveland. Then he arrives in Miami with other talent (much like MJ in getting Pippen) and he looks less selfish than ever. The situations almost mirror each other. And I think its very easy to forget that Kobe won titles with Shaq and clearly did not push him into the shadows. Now their parting is well documented, of course, but Shaq won the MVP playing with Kobe. Hard to do that in the "shadows".

Im guessing you are a little younger than to remember the Bird and Magic era as well as when MJ entered the league? The game in the 70s was a dead game. Bird and Magic saved the NBA and were these guys that made everybody around them better. It was then that passing became "cool" and guys moved without the ball. That changed when MJ first entered the league. He was not as good a shooter as he was when he finished and was a one on one penetration player with tons of athleticism. Very similar to James (although James is stronger). Jordan became a better shooter faster than James, but had to do so because the talent was better around the league in terms of star power and he had to beat Detroit which was a very tough defensive team. He did not win without Pippen much like James did not win in Cleveland.

 

[TRyan]

Im not sure thats a fair statement at all. Heck, MJ was considered a selfish player during his prime when compared to what he took over for in Bird and Magic. He was a one on one basketball player and changed the game because of that. Sure because of his talent other guys found openings, but most experts would say James is just as good if not a better passer (although both leave their feet).

As much as I dislike Lebron I would have to agree with this statement. The dude is a great passer. He almost always has double digits assits.

 

[fishymehta]

As much as I dislike Lebron I would have to agree with this statement. The dude is a great passer. He almost always has double digits assits.

Now he does... where he actually has people like Wade and Bosh to pass to. But when he played for the Cavs, where were those assists? He only passes when he has great players on the other end. Jordan passed more than LeBron (during his Cavs days), and he passed to almost everybody, although Pippen was a favorite.

 

[JB]

Now he does... where he actually has people like Wade and Bosh to pass to. But when he played for the Cavs, where were those assists? He only passes when he has great players on the other end. Jordan passed more than LeBron (during his Cavs days), and he passed to almost everybody, although Pippen was a favorite.

Not correct. James averaged more assists in Cleveland the 3 years prior to going to Miami than he did in Miami. And with the exception of only 1 year, James averaged more assists than Jordan did as well.

 

[fishymehta]

Not correct. James averaged more assists in Cleveland the 3 years prior to going to Miami than he did in Miami. And with the exception of only 1 year, James averaged more assists than Jordan did as well.

Huh.... I thought LeBron was averaging more assists in Miami. Hehe whoops.

And what year did LeBron average less than Jordan?

 

[JB]

Jordan never averaged even 6.5 assists in the NBA except one lone year when he had 8 in 89. Outside of that, he was never a great assist guy. Decent passer at times, but not what some of our younger generation seems to believe.

 

[Damaikis]

Jordan never averaged even 6.5 assists in the NBA except one lone year when he had 8 in 89. Outside of that, he was never a great assist guy. Decent passer at times, but not what some of our younger generation seems to believe.

IMO LeBron is the best passer in the league... Jordan never was even close. Passing is not necessarily reflected by assists. If that was the case Rondo would be the best passer in the league, which I really don't think he is. LeBron makes rediculous passes and seems to have some of the best court vision I have ever seen.

 

[Danilo]

As well as not being able to make it, he would never risk his basketball career. He would be a good WR/TE or he could be one of the best basketball players of all time.

He will never be "one of the greatest basketball players of all time"

As far as him in the NFL, I'd like to see that... it's always nice to see someone so cocky get laid out!

 

[fishymehta]

IMO LeBron is the best passer in the league... Jordan never was even close. Passing is not necessarily reflected by assists. If that was the case Rondo would be the best passer in the league, which I really don't think he is. LeBron makes rediculous passes and seems to have some of the best court vision I have ever seen.

True, the guy has amazing vision. As for being a good passer, I agree that it shouldn't be based off of assists. In that case, LeBron has some pretty decent passing. And Jordan was never a bad passer, he just wasn't amazing...

 

[Damaikis]

He will never be "one of the greatest basketball players of all time"

As far as him in the NFL, I'd like to see that... it's always nice to see someone so cocky get laid out!

I think a ton of people would disagree with that. He is the best player of his era and the fact that he is even in the discussion with MJ, Magic, Wilt, Russell, etc. shows how highly people think of him. That speaks for itself.

What makes you hate LeBron so much? You a Cavs fan?

 

[fishymehta]

I think a ton of people would disagree with that. He is the best player of his era and the fact that he is even in the discussion with MJ, Magic, Wilt, Russell, etc. shows how highly people think of him. That speaks for itself.

What makes you hate LeBron so much? You a Cavs fan?

Hehe I love it when people say this....