snicker.doodles
Substantially Revised.
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Lie Angle 101
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Based on your initial comments I wouldve said a 2* minimum, but he will tell you everything that we all did in here
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
Another question with this. Let's say you have a 21* hybrid whose lie is 58.5*. The loft of that club is 21* at that lie correct? So the club head/grooves parallel to the floor/ground. Anything different from that, the loft is different and will have a bias from that left or right. Am I looking at this correctly? To me this would make a difference.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
To you, if it will make a difference, then it will. I will venture to say that fairway and hybrid and driver lie does not affect 98% of golfers above a 5hcp, and 90% of golfers below a 5hcp. Not including tour players.
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
What? How is a physical aspect a mental one? I'm asking a question. If I'm wrong please say so. Is club loft dependant on the lie angle? I'm genuinely curious about that.
Fairway2Green
The Obstacle is the Path
To add to Thaniers point, my friend said just irons and wedges need to be bent. He's a scratch golfer and gets all his clubs free from TM and he only has his irons and wedges bent.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
I would say no. Loft is not largely(and i say largely because it could affect it, but maybe to a half degree, which none of us would ever notice) affected by lie. If you think the lie of a fairway or hybrid or even driver is causing disparity in your shots, be prepared for a rude awakening.
And to the bolded part, this is golf. Mental causes Physical all day long and vice versa. So if you think it will make a difference, than it definitely will.
And to the bolded part, this is golf. Mental causes Physical all day long and vice versa. So if you think it will make a difference, than it definitely will.
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
This very well could be true. My point was, if irons have to be adjusted, why wouldn't hybrids and fairways? Surely the principles that are affected for irons would be affected for the other clubs. Maybe I'm wrong.
As I said, I was curious about it. I'm not implying anything about my game currently, I was merely trying to learn something here. I can't argue about the mental stuff, I was trying to figure out what you were getting at.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Wood swing and iron swing are drastically different, and the club shape is made differently for less turf interaction. Less turf interaction means the lie angles will affect you less. Thus a lie angle on a driver being almost irrelevant.
I know I was just stating that for others whoever were to read this thread in the future.
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
Driver aside, as it's always up on a tee, fairways and hybrids are meant to be different than irons, granted. But for hybrids especially, seeing as they are supposed to be hit more like irons, I would think there would have to be some benefit from adjusting the lie for the exact same reasons as irons would.
Lefty78
Have clubs, will travel
I am no expert but let me add some thoughts. If nothing else it will take my mind off this CPM I am strapped into.
Club length changes lie as well. I am 6'6" and every fitter assumes I need longer shafts but I have very long arms and a some what stooped stance. The posture has changed over time as has my height (about two inches shorter). I have been gripping down to effectively shorten this set and the next set will probably be close to "standard". Longer clubs give results that can be mistaken for lie needing adjustment since the heel hits first. When I started playing 50 years ago I had the opposite problem. The toe of those standard (that's all there was back then) irons hit first and every shot was a cut or outright slice then years later I finally got a set with longer shafts and it was magic! A slicer to a hooker overnight!
We have a very sharp fitter, Kevin, and he is the source of most of this info. After gripping down, I shot three rounds in the mid 70s after struggling to break 80 all winter. After recovery, I will be fitted for a new set by Kevin. Static measures don't mean much since it shows I need 1 inch over, and if I were to hit on a lie board, it would show the heel striking.
I like all the advice above especially about about examining your divots just keep in mind all the variables.
Club length changes lie as well. I am 6'6" and every fitter assumes I need longer shafts but I have very long arms and a some what stooped stance. The posture has changed over time as has my height (about two inches shorter). I have been gripping down to effectively shorten this set and the next set will probably be close to "standard". Longer clubs give results that can be mistaken for lie needing adjustment since the heel hits first. When I started playing 50 years ago I had the opposite problem. The toe of those standard (that's all there was back then) irons hit first and every shot was a cut or outright slice then years later I finally got a set with longer shafts and it was magic! A slicer to a hooker overnight!
We have a very sharp fitter, Kevin, and he is the source of most of this info. After gripping down, I shot three rounds in the mid 70s after struggling to break 80 all winter. After recovery, I will be fitted for a new set by Kevin. Static measures don't mean much since it shows I need 1 inch over, and if I were to hit on a lie board, it would show the heel striking.
I like all the advice above especially about about examining your divots just keep in mind all the variables.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
But the club is designed differently for less turf interaction. The hybrid head still reacts to the turf like a wood, but the shaft is what makes it need to be swung like an iron.
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
Surely there must be more to it than turf interaction?
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Why? Turf interaction is what slows down the heel or toe of the golf club during a divot, and thats the reason for proper lie angles for irons and wedges.
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
That may be, but on a properly struck shot, the club hits the ball first, then the ground.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Absolutely, but the ball is on the clubface ALOT longer than you think it is.
Experiment for you: Call Taylormade, Ping, Titleist, Nike, Callaway, Cobra, Mizuno, and Cleveland and ask about sending in your fairway or hybrid for bending. I guarantee you that 7(if not all) refuse.
OEMs wouldnt make these clubs if they were meant to be adjusted like irons and wedges. Due to shaft characteristics and camber, it really isnt needed.
9-Iron Man
Exciting Times
All the more reason to make sure the face is straight, no?
One of my original questions was if you in fact did need a lie adjustment on a hybrid, you would have to order a custom head from the OEM.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Your bold question is my bold answer. I doubt the OEM would even let you order a custom head like that but when they say no to bending, you can ask that too.
Fairway2Green
The Obstacle is the Path
Adams will bend hybrids for you.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Because Adams is so focussed on hybrids, I did not mention them. But will they bend all of them? Or just the 'pro' models?
c_ault
New member
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I don't believe lie angle deflection is impacted much at all by turf contact. The deflection is more to do with the loft of the club. The greater the loft the greater left or right an improper lie angle will send the ball. That is one of the reasons when getting to the FW, hybrids, and drivers that lie angle becomes less important.
One way to see this for yourself, take a pen or stick and push it through some heavy paper or cardboard so it is at a 90 degree angle to the paper/cardboard. Set the paper/cardboard on edge (0* of loft) and move it towards the toe and heel. The pen/stick may move a little from left to right but mostly still straight to the target. Now lean back the paper/card board to 45* or more and move it to heel/toe and see where the pen/stick points.
Or, if you just want to see it explained go to golfworks click on videos and watch the video on iron lie angles. :smile:
Of course you could go with my dad's school of thought "how often do you have a flat lie on the golf course?"
There may be some merit to that but my thought is shouldn't you start with the perfect set up so you don't have to adjust as much to the uneven lies?
One way to see this for yourself, take a pen or stick and push it through some heavy paper or cardboard so it is at a 90 degree angle to the paper/cardboard. Set the paper/cardboard on edge (0* of loft) and move it towards the toe and heel. The pen/stick may move a little from left to right but mostly still straight to the target. Now lean back the paper/card board to 45* or more and move it to heel/toe and see where the pen/stick points.
Or, if you just want to see it explained go to golfworks click on videos and watch the video on iron lie angles. :smile:
Of course you could go with my dad's school of thought "how often do you have a flat lie on the golf course?"
There may be some merit to that but my thought is shouldn't you start with the perfect set up so you don't have to adjust as much to the uneven lies?
I agree that you should start with as optimal a situation as you can achieve with your clubs regardless of the fact that you rarely see a flat lie out there on the course, fairway or not.
Also I think is is most common at address for the toe of the club to be a little off the ground. Your clubs are modified to the correct lie angle based on what happens during your swing as opposed to what the club looks like at address. My spec is 2* flat but at address the toe is a little off the ground. I think if that were not the case the toe of the club would hit the ground first during my swing causing me some real problems.
Also I think is is most common at address for the toe of the club to be a little off the ground. Your clubs are modified to the correct lie angle based on what happens during your swing as opposed to what the club looks like at address. My spec is 2* flat but at address the toe is a little off the ground. I think if that were not the case the toe of the club would hit the ground first during my swing causing me some real problems.
TC
Keg Thrower
Is your first name Kevin? If it is, that's even more awesome! Kevin Salvadori!