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MLB Hall of Fame and the Steroid Era

JB

JB

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Do you think these players should be in?
Some are, some aren't, including Griffey, Jeter, Rivera (first ever unanimous). Some that have used have gotten in including Big Papi.
Yet some of the greats, are still left off. And more importantly, in the HOF, its about numbers and how many are distorted from this period.

Where do you stand?
 
Let them in, I don't care one way or another. If some are, then they all should be.

Whatever your criteria is, just stick to it. if the criteria changes, then go back and reevaluate those you left out due to that previous criteria.
 
They should all be in, it’s stupid that they aren’t. The whole purist traditionalist mentality in golf is bad enough, but MLB takes it to infinitely higher levels.

They should be in and Pete Rose should be in. Period.
 
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All 3 of 'em. As an aside, Bernie Williams belongs in the HOF.
 
Let them all in.
 
Let em all in.
 
all of them should definitely be in. The majority of players during the steroid era were using PED's so it was largely a level playing field anyways. Plus adding David Ortiz didnt make sense since his name was linked to PED's like some of the others who have not been voted in for that reason

Also McGwire took Andre while it was legal to use in MLB
 
They should be in. Period.. I hate the baseball hall of fame politics.
 
templeton80 said:
They should be in. Period.. I hate the baseball hall of fame politics.
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Yeah its awful. Forever there was the "I will never vote first ballot so there is no unanimous". That finally went away with Rivera, but the fact that Ripken, Gwynn and others weren't unanimous and pre-Steroid era is awful. The irony being that the HOF ceremony each year is dying for MLB and hasnt been strong in quite some time.
 
Baseball players have been taking PEDs since the beginning of baseball.
 
Put them all in. What never gets talked about is all the pitchers were using as well.

And I agree w/ @TRyan ... for the love of God put Pete Rose in already.
 
bigbov said:
Put them all in. What never gets talked about is all the pitchers were using as well.

And I agree w/ @TRyan ... for the love of God put Pete Rose in already.
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Its funny how much I have less issue with Rose not being in (despite amazing accomplishments) than I do with PEDs.
 
JB said:
Yeah its awful. Forever there was the "I will never vote first ballot so there is no unanimous". That finally went away with Rivera, but the fact that Ripken, Gwynn and others weren't unanimous and pre-Steroid era is awful. The irony being that the HOF ceremony each year is dying for MLB and hasnt been strong in quite some time.
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it really bugs me. It bugs me that sports writers do the voting from some supposed moral high ground. The no such thing as unanimous was ridiculous. I think the man is a dork but how is Rose is not in the hall of fame as a player for something that happened well after his playing days boggles my mind. I can’t stand bonds but come on!! The game made million or maybe trillions off his home run feet. He has has also “never tested positive”!! So while yes, it is a very safe assumption that he juiced. You can’t definitively say that.
 
To think there was a “steroid era” and it ended and players today are clean is hysterical. PEDs are rampant in sports, and always will be regardless of how you classify them.

Let them all in. Everyone uses advantages in one way or another.
 
My personal view is that there has always been cheating in baseball. Long before steroids, players used anything to gain an advantage. Steroids took it to new levels, obviously, but it was also one of the most exciting times to be a baseball fan. I say put them all in based on numbers and if you want to put an asterisk by it, so be it. If I remember right it wasn't even considered cheating at the time, because they weren't testing for it, or at least not banning people for it. It can't be illegal if you're not trying to stop it, so to turn around now and act like they tainted the game seems silly to me. The MLB and the MLBPA did this to themselves by turning a blind eye for years. They reaped the benefits during the McGuire/Sosa/Bonds home run chase when ratings were high. It's an important part of the MLB history whether you liked it or not.
 
templeton80 said:
it really bugs me. It bugs me that sports writers do the voting from some supposed moral high ground. The no such thing as unanimous was ridiculous. I think the man is a dork but how is Rose is not in the hall of fame as a player for something that happened well after his playing days boggles my mind. I can’t stand bonds but come on!! The game made million or maybe trillions off his home run feet. He has has also “never tested positive”!! So while yes, it is a very safe assumption that he juiced. You can’t definitively say that.
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Body of work while still part of MLB?
I agree on the steroid era, especially since others are in.
Not sure where I stand on Rose, because he literally hit the fabric of competition with gambling on his own games where he very well could influence the outcome.
 
Let them all in, including Pete Rose.
 
JB said:
Body of work while still part of MLB?
I agree on the steroid era, especially since others are in.
Not sure where I stand on Rose, because he literally hit the fabric of competition with gambling on his own games where he very well could influence the outcome.
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I can see, and totally respect where you are coming from - however, I feel like you could make the argument that taking PEDs is also hitting the fabric of competition as well.
 
This is a topic I'm oddly passionate about and a hill I will die on forever. At this point I think the MLB hall of fame is a completely broken concept and just needs torn down and restarted.

The writers have been historically bad at electing players. Even in the first ballot, no one was unanimous. I think about that a lot. The writers founded this institution, decided who gets to vote, who is eligible, and guys like Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth were not 100% selections. Which then started the whole "if Babe Ruth didn't get 100% , then no one should" stupidity we've dealt with forever. Then in the 1950s Joe DiMaggio didn't get elected on the first ballot and we had to deal with 'if DiMaggio isn't a first ballot guy, then no one is" mentality. The writers also used to have a saying - "If I have to think about it, the answer is no" for those who are worthy.

Then there was the train wreck that was the 2013 ballot. On what could've been the greatest hall class ever, no one got elected in a sham protest vote. No less than 8 players on that ballot - Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Schilling, Biggio, Kenny Lofton, and David Wells had strong arguments to be inducted into the hall. I would consider at least 4 of those names to be slam dunk candidates. We've had to deal with an overstuffed ballot ever since. The writers have essentially invalidated an entire generation of players by refusing to elect anyone (but David Ortiz) even closly related to PED use, held back candidates for years that were even suspected, and even the clean players still get a mark because they played in you know, that era.

The Veterans committee is also a failure. It had generally just been a tool for the already enshrined players to elect their buddies. Go look up the Frankie Frisch All-Stars. Basically every HoFer you've never heard of that was elected in the 1950s through early 70s was the responsibility of this guy. It was essentially the same thing in 2019 when we saw Harold Baines get elected. The committee that elected him contained the GM that drafted him, two GMs that signed/traded for him, two former managers, and at least one teammate. He just had the numbers. Add to the politics, the fact that now the veterans committees are tasked with correcting the oversight of the writers, and they are an ill constructed and overwhelmed body.

I would like to see a much more inclusive Hall, with a tiered structure. And yes, Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame. As this is getting long, I'm going to close with a list of juiced era players I think belong in the hall. And I love talking baseball and will talk about anyone or anything with the game. You can @ at me all day and I'll talk.

C - Jorge Posada
1B: McGwire, Helton, Palmeiro, Giambi, Delgado, Mattingly, Andres Galarraga
2B: Lou Whitaker
3B: Matt Williams (Scott Rolen is not a HoFer)
SS: Garciaparra
LF: Bonds, Manny, Albert Belle
CF: Dale Murphy, Jim Edmonds, Bernie Williams, Kenny Lofton
RF: Sosa, Canseco, Juan Gonzalez, Sheffield
SP: Clemens, Kevin Brown, David Cone, Doc Gooden, Schilling, Saberhagen, Hershiser
CP: Billy Wagner, Quisenberry, John Franco
 
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