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MLB Hall of Fame and the Steroid Era

bigbov said:
The reason I don't have a problem w/ Rose is from what I understand whenever he bet the Reds he bet them to win. If he were proven to throw games or something then my opinion would change entirely.
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Unfortunately for Rose, it can't be proven he didn't bet the Reds to lose. Therefore, it can't be proven he didn't throw games.
JB said:
But its one and the same.
I guess my thought is he knew the rules, and knew the punishment was banning. Step away.
It was before the social media era, we have no idea what he was doing while playing sadly, just that he was caught while managing.
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Of course he knew the rules. Anyone who follows baseball knows the Shoeless Joe story. So, when it was announced that Rose was caught betting, everyone knew, at that moment, that he'd never get in the HOF.

I spent many years defending Rose the player, but the older wiser me realizes that we'll never know if he bet his teams as a player or not. Mr. Rose created the dark shadow that he has to live with.
 
DiscipleofPenick said:
Think about that - just this year with Bryce Harper returning from his rotator cuff injury. We know exactly how long it takes the human body to recover from this surgery. Yet here he is, back on the field months earlier than he should be. And no one questions how this is possible? It's possible through drugs.
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It was a UCL injury and he has only been DHing this year. He hasn't played in the field (thrown).
 
DiscipleofPenick said:
Think about that - just this year with Bryce Harper returning from his rotator cuff injury. We know exactly how long it takes the human body to recover from this surgery. Yet here he is, back on the field months earlier than he should be. And no one questions how this is possible? It's possible through drugs.
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Surgery and rehab are funny things. Everybody has gotten better at both things and recovery times are rapidly changing.
 
baylrballa said:
why? different times
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Because the MLB actively kept players out of the leagues who could have massively changed the statistical on field impact of the players in the HOF from that period.
 
blugold said:
Because the MLB actively kept players out of the leagues who could have massively changed the statistical on field impact of the players in the HOF from that period.
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I'm fine kicking everyone out of the hall of fame before 1947, or making a separate one.
 
Is Andruw Jones a HOFer? I'm very biased so interested in non-Braves fan opinions. He is the greatest defensive center fielder I've ever seen and regarded by most as the 2nd best all time to Willie Mays, which is quite the compliment.

.254
434 HR
1,289 RBI
152 SB
10x Gold Glove (consecutive)
5x All Star
62.7 WAR

Braves postseason legend hitting 2 HR in a World Series game at the age of 19 (although they lost).. nothing to do with HOF qualification but still cool
 
baylrballa said:
I'm fine kicking everyone out of the hall of fame before 1947, or making a separate one.
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I just want everybody to get an asterisk or nobody gets an asterisk.
 
Considering they voted in Papi and Pudge and Bagwell in who were suspected they should probably let the all time greats in.
 
TRyan said:
He had an ELITE peak - Was the best 1st baseman in baseball for that stretch - but I am not sure the longevity was there for him.
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You could make the case that during those elite years for that handful or so, Eddie Murray was actually the best in MLB.
 
JimBetts said:
Unfortunately for Rose, it can't be proven he didn't bet the Reds to lose. Therefore, it can't be proven he didn't throw games.
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It's also never been proven he bet against his team so therefore innocent until proven guilty. The main reason I am for letting him in is there are far worse human beings in there already.
 
The fact that Bud Selig is in the HOF but some of the best players to ever play are not shows how dumb the HOF is. The HOF means nothing.
 
AndersonRains said:
Is Andruw Jones a HOFer? I'm very biased so interested in non-Braves fan opinions. He is the greatest defensive center fielder I've ever seen and regarded by most as the 2nd best all time to Willie Mays, which is quite the compliment.

.254
434 HR
1,289 RBI
152 SB
10x Gold Glove (consecutive)
5x All Star
62.7 WAR

Braves postseason legend hitting 2 HR in a World Series game at the age of 19 (although they lost).. nothing to do with HOF qualification but still cool
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Hall of Very Good numbers right there.
 
Joshnoble01 said:
Considering they voted in Papi and Pudge and Bagwell in who were suspected they should probably let the all time greats in.
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AMEN. It's the hypocrisy that drives me crazy. They have got to change the voting process, but never will..
 
IMO, there are several players from the steroid era that belong in the HOF, asterisks or not. If the recklessness doesn't stop about this era many future, potential, HOFers won't get in either.

Case and point, Tatis Jr is clearly on his way to having a HOF career. However, last year he was suspended for PEDs. If his career numbers clearly justify inclusion will he be held out because of a 60 game PED suspension?
 
JimBetts said:
Unfortunately for Rose, it can't be proven he didn't bet the Reds to lose. Therefore, it can't be proven he didn't throw games.

Of course he knew the rules. Anyone who follows baseball knows the Shoeless Joe story. So, when it was announced that Rose was caught betting, everyone knew, at that moment, that he'd never get in the HOF.

I spent many years defending Rose the player, but the older wiser me realizes that we'll never know if he bet his teams as a player or not. Mr. Rose created the dark shadow that he has to live with.
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THis rule - gambling, is also posted (so I have been told) in every MLB clubhouse - not sure about visitors, but still.
 
AndersonRains said:
Is Andruw Jones a HOFer? I'm very biased so interested in non-Braves fan opinions. He is the greatest defensive center fielder I've ever seen and regarded by most as the 2nd best all time to Willie Mays, which is quite the compliment.

.254
434 HR
1,289 RBI
152 SB
10x Gold Glove (consecutive)
5x All Star
62.7 WAR

Braves postseason legend hitting 2 HR in a World Series game at the age of 19 (although they lost).. nothing to do with HOF qualification but still cool
Click to expand...

434 HR and 10 Gold Gloves (its a popularity contest but his are deserved).... absolutely should be in HOF.
 
JB said:
You could make the case that during those elite years for that handful or so, Eddie Murray was actually the best in MLB.
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That is a fair argument to make. I, unfortunately, wasn't around to witness it - so I am sort of basing it around things I have heard and some numbers I have looked at.

Regardless, he had a pretty impressive peak, but just didn't sustain it long enough to be a HOFer (IMO)
 
baylrballa said:
:LOL:

ok, fine, everyone gets and asterisk :LOL:


suspected PED users get 2. :D
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why only 2, I think they should get one for each suspected season of use.:cool:
 
JB said:
You could make the case that during those elite years for that handful or so, Eddie Murray was actually the best in MLB.
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Eddie Murray is woefully underrated as an all time player.
 
JimBetts said:
IMO, there are several players from the steroid era that belong in the HOF, asterisks or not. If the recklessness doesn't stop about this era many future, potential, HOFers won't get in either.

Case and point, Tatis Jr is clearly on his way to having a HOF career. However, last year he was suspended for PEDs. If his career numbers clearly justify inclusion will he be held out because of a 60 game PED suspension?
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I think there is a vast difference between Tatis (or any current players who get caught) vs. 90s-2000s steroid users. Just my opinion.
 
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