We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Rays and Tommy John

JB

JB

Follow @THPGolf on Social Media
Albatross 2024 Club
Staff member
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
283,983
Reaction score
437,181
Location
THP Experiences
For MLB fans this will be interesting, for non, it won't make much sense. But since 2020, the Tampa Bay Rays have had 8 pitchers have Tommy John surgery and now an 9th will join the list in one of AL's best Shane McClanahan is done. A list of their pitchers and surgeries since 2020.

Jeffrey Springs was 2-0 with a .56 and was shut down
Shane Baz the #1 prospect in 2022 had it in September
Top 5 Prospect Brendan McKay in September
Tyler Glasnow had the Surgery in August of 2021
Nick Anderson in 2021
Drew Rasmussen started 4-2 with a 2.26 ERA in 2023 and then was shut down
Andrew Kittredge had it in 2022
Poche, Chirinos and Beeks all had surgery in 2020

Fluke with bad luck or something else going on with conditioning and mechanics.
 
Thats too many to be just a coincidence
 
I thought this was a sunglass/underwear thread. However, seems like the training regimen needs to be looked at. Seems crazy.
 
I wonder if it is all the same training staff, medical staff and pitching coach over the past 4 years?

If it is, it may be time to make a change.
 
Here's my conspiracy theory, the team intentionally pitched these guys in a way that they would need Tommy John early so the pitchers can get the surgery out of the way early in their careers. The instances of pitchers needing two TJs is rare. It's a remarkably success surgery with great long term prognosis. Get it done early and don't worry about it later.
 
Not uncommon. Would hazard a guess that this is about the league average.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Admin
  • #7
RealPretendPsychic said:
Not uncommon. Would hazard a guess that this is about the league average.
Click to expand...
According to Fox Sports last night, their pitching injury totals are about 35% higher than MLB average over the last 5 years.
No idea what that means, but that is what spurred the thread. Losing 3 guys in a season to Tommy John I do not believe is the league average though.
 
blugold said:
Here's my conspiracy theory, the team intentionally pitched these guys in a way that they would need Tommy John early so the pitchers can get the surgery out of the way early in their careers. The instances of pitchers needing two TJs is rare. It's a remarkably success surgery with great long term prognosis. Get it done early and don't worry about it later.
Click to expand...
 
JB said:
According to Fox Sports last night, their pitching injury totals are about 35% higher than MLB average over the last 5 years.
No idea what that means, but that is what spurred the thread. Losing 3 guys in a season to Tommy John I do not believe is the league average though.
Click to expand...
Since 2020 teams have averaged 4 players at the MLB level undergoing TJ and 13 for the entire organization. Tampa is second with 8 at the MLB level and well behind Cleveland’s total of 25, with 15 throughout the organization.

I remember the Phillies had a handful of guys undergo hernia surgeries after the season a few years ago. I believe the training staff was gone shortly after.
 
blugold said:
Here's my conspiracy theory, the team intentionally pitched these guys in a way that they would need Tommy John early so the pitchers can get the surgery out of the way early in their careers. The instances of pitchers needing two TJs is rare. It's a remarkably success surgery with great long term prognosis. Get it done early and don't worry about it later.
Click to expand...

I actually somewhat agree with this. Most pitchers know it’s coming. And anymore? The majority come back throwing stronger than prior.
 
Couldn't happen in a better division. ;) My opinion on this has alwasy been there is much more importance placed on velocity in the last 10-20 years which has led to more arms being blown out. As far as the specific thread topic, it certainly seems to be more than just coincidence with the Rays
 
jbb2388 said:
Couldn't happen in a better division. ;) My opinion on this has alwasy been there is much more importance placed on velocity in the last 10-20 years which has led to more arms being blown out. As far as the specific thread topic, it certainly seems to be more than just coincidence with the Rays
Click to expand...
Man I can dislike a lot of teams, but would never root for injury :)
 
Here is my theory, with support.

I listed to quite a bit of Off Course with Dan Edwards, but I also listen to Nothing Personal with David Samson while waiting for Dan to drop a new episode. Samson, the former president of the Marlins, has spoken from time to time about pitching guys more than what is in the best interest of the players.

His position was that some teams that don’t want to spend (like the Marlins and Rays for example) don’t plan on signing the players to their second contract, or don’t think that they will sign even if more money is offered, so they pitch them more to win now. This is especially true during team control years.

I think it’s credible, and a way for a team like the Rays to win more in the margins.
 
Doesn't almost every pitcher get Tommy John at some point? And most of them come back with an increase in velocity. I've even heard stories of people having it done preemptively, without an injury.

On a separate, semi-related topic, should Tommy John (the player not the surgery) be in the HOF?
 
Wow that's insane! Anyone ask the pitching coach what's going on? There has to be something going on with the mechanics of the throwing motion. :eek:
 
I agree @JB something seems amiss here.

However, TJ and arm injuries in general are up with the added emphasis on velocity.

Not sure if it is more of a workout / injury prevention thing but likely more of a mechanical thing - Arm slot etc. with added pressure being placed in that UCL area.

Either way - it seems something they should be (and likely already are) looking into.
 
TRyan said:
I agree @JB something seems amiss here.

However, TJ and arm injuries in general are up with the added emphasis on velocity.

Not sure if it is more of a workout / injury prevention thing but likely more of a mechanical thing - Arm slot etc. with added pressure being placed in that UCL area.

Either way - it seems something they should be (and likely already are) looking into.
Click to expand...

I agree with you,
 
Glasnow (was) and McClanahan is on my fantasy team. I thought I was just jinxed, but yeah it's odd. I think it's gotta be bad luck, if it's mechanics or conditioning, someone should get fired.
 
Super weird. But I still think it is bad luck. All these teams have access to the best strength and conditioning and technique coaches. I believe pitchers all just throw so hard now that the likelihood of the wheels coming off is much more possible if not probable. Look at Ohtani..
 
Since guys are coming back from it and throwing faster, some are having it whether needed or not. I was reading an article on this sometime last season.
 
PPFour12 said:
I actually somewhat agree with this. Most pitchers know it’s coming. And anymore? The majority come back throwing stronger than prior.
Click to expand...
Is there such a thing as elective Tommy John surgery?

That's crazy that they have had that high percentage of injuries.
 
I'm really intrigued what the facts around this are, because they also develop pitchers way more successfully than most if not all of the other clubs in baseball.
 
War Eagle said:
Is there such a thing as elective Tommy John surgery?

That's crazy that they have had that high percentage of injuries.
Click to expand...
The velocity and torque of the modern slider is 100% to blame and pitchers now just understand it's happening. Like I anecdotally referenced above, I think the amount of high school and college pitchers getting Tommy John would blow some minds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top