Revisited: How Would a Scratch Golfer Fare Against an LPGA Pro?

[greenOak]

Here's the most recent quotation I could find, but I know I've seen other places before:

View attachment 9239110

I've seen these stats before and I suspect a lot of it is setup driven - PGA tour tends to have firmer greens making how the ball reacts on the green more unpredictable. The PGA tour may also have tougher pin positions on average but I'm not sure about that.

Also, Minjee Lee appears to be a major statistical outlier in approach play. In 2022 she gained a whopping +2.02 strokes per round in approach play. On the PGA tour, Scheffler led this category with +1.194 last year, and Zallatoris led with +1.063 in 2022. In the PGA tour strokes gained database (goes back to 2004), Tiger Woods, who is widely regarded as the GOAT iron player, is the only player to ever average over 2 strokes gained in approach play for a season (+2.072 in 2006). In fact, nobody outside of Tiger has ever broke the +1.5 mark. Even in terms of how far ahead she is of second place, Tiger is the only player in the men's game who has shown similar dominance.

 

[mantan]

This thread got bubbled up again and comes up on every golf thread almost yearly. It's kinda wild that it does. The old adage is 'scratch ain't schit'

So the idea that somebody who isn't even sniffing the anywhere close to the lowest level of male professional golf would be able to beat a professional LPGA player is laughable. Maybe if it's match play and they are getting strokes. But these women are dotting fairways and hitting greens at courses all over the world where the typical scratch player is shooting 71-75 at their club they know like the back of their hand.

Any advantage off the tee will be eaten up by an LPGA being more accurate with their irons, having a professional level short game and putting.

As a twist on the old Brian Scalabrine quote, the average LPGA player is closer to Scottie Sheffler than a scratch golfer is to their level.

 

[War Eagle]

This thread got bubbled up again and comes up on every golf thread almost yearly. It's kinda wild that it does. The old adage is 'scratch ain't schit'

So the idea that somebody who isn't even sniffing the anywhere close to the lowest level of male professional golf would be able to beat a professional LPGA player is laughable. Maybe if it's match play and they are getting strokes. But these women are dotting fairways and hitting greens at courses all over the world where the typical scratch player is shooting 71-75 at their club they know like the back of their hand.

Any advantage off the tee will be eaten up by an LPGA being more accurate with their irons, having a professional level short game and putting.

As a twist on the old Brian Scalabrine quote, the average LPGA player is closer to Scottie Sheffler than a scratch golfer is to their level.

I've played with LPGA pros before, and I was no scratch, but was decent. Their game was on such a different level it wasnt even funny.

 

[MtlJeff]

This thread got bubbled up again and comes up on every golf thread almost yearly. It's kinda wild that it does. The old adage is 'scratch ain't schit'

So the idea that somebody who isn't even sniffing the anywhere close to the lowest level of male professional golf would be able to beat a professional LPGA player is laughable. Maybe if it's match play and they are getting strokes. But these women are dotting fairways and hitting greens at courses all over the world where the typical scratch player is shooting 71-75 at their club they know like the back of their hand.

Any advantage off the tee will be eaten up by an LPGA being more accurate with their irons, having a professional level short game and putting.

As a twist on the old Brian Scalabrine quote, the average LPGA player is closer to Scottie Sheffler than a scratch golfer is to their level.

The thing i don't quite follow is that their scoring is their scoring, it's available online which I posted a couple of pages ago. Obviously there's pressure of playing in tournaments etc which has to be factored. But the bottom 10% of players on tour i would guess are playing to maybe +1 or +2 type levels. This is assuming their courses are rated maybe 74 or 75

It would seem reasonable to think that a scratch player could not embarrass themselves vs a low level LPGA player.

The scoring spread on the LPGA tour is like 5+ shots from top to bottom. On the PGA tour it's tighter.

It would appear, that the 150th ranked LPGA player is playing closer to scratch than we probably think

 

[Parrot]

Also, Minjee Lee appears to be a major statistical outlier in approach play. In 2022 she gained a whopping +2.02 strokes per round in approach play. On the PGA tour, Scheffler led this category with +1.194 last year, and Zallatoris led with +1.063 in 2022. In the PGA tour strokes gained database (goes back to 2004), Tiger Woods, who is widely regarded as the GOAT iron player, is the only player to ever average over 2 strokes gained in approach play for a season (+2.072 in 2006). In fact, nobody outside of Tiger has ever broke the +1.5 mark. Even in terms of how far ahead she is of second place, Tiger is the only player in the men's game who has shown similar dominance.

Minjee is super exceptional on approach play.

 

[golfaddict77]

Wouldn’t even be close. Those ladies hit bombs are can flat out roll the rock.

Most of them average 240-260 off the tee. Not exactly bombing it. But yes, they can definitely play.

 

[tequila4kapp]

A clown on Twitter took some heavy heat a while back for tweeting that any amateur with a 4 handicap could beat an LPGA Pro playing from the same tees.

This week at the Hilton Vacations Tournament of Champions, we got to see how that works out in real life. Danielle Kang posted four rounds in the 60s. The combined total of rounds in the 60s from the FIFTY competitors in the Celebrity Division? Zero.

The winner of the Celebrity Division was Derek Lowe, a retired MLB pitcher who plays off a 0.2 Index. Although they were playing Stableford format, his stroke play scores for the four rounds were 76-72-75-72. A respectable total of +7 for the tournament, but 23 strokes off Danielle Kang's -16. His +7 finish would have put him T24 amongst the 29 golfers in the LPGA Division.

Mardy Fish is widely recognized as one of the best players on the Celebrity golf circuit. He plays off a +2.8 Index and shot 81-70-73-82, and his second round was the only celebrity round that was under par. Put him on the LPGA leaderboard and he would have finished 28th of 29.

Question answered.

In all sports the professionals are SOOOO good and they play against each other that we lose perspective. I've been able to see LPGA, LIV and Korn Ferry events in person. They are not even remotely playing the same game as even scratch players. It is insane how great they are.

 

[Architex]

The thing i don't quite follow is that their scoring is their scoring, it's available online which I posted a couple of pages ago. Obviously there's pressure of playing in tournaments etc which has to be factored. But the bottom 10% of players on tour i would guess are playing to maybe +1 or +2 type levels. This is assuming their courses are rated maybe 74 or 75

It would seem reasonable to think that a scratch player could not embarrass themselves vs a low level LPGA player.

The scoring spread on the LPGA tour is like 5+ shots from top to bottom. On the PGA tour it's tighter.

It would appear, that the 150th ranked LPGA player is playing closer to scratch than we probably think

The yardages and slope of LPGA courses are probably higher than you think. My home course that is 6188 from the white tees is rated 78.3/147 for women.


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[Jman]

Most of them average 240-260 off the tee. Not exactly bombing it. But yes, they can definitely play.

Longer than most am’s, no matter what they claim on the internet.

 

[blugold]

Most of them average 240-260 off the tee. Not exactly bombing it. But yes, they can definitely play.

Wait until see what the average driving distance is for a scratch male golfer.

 

[JB]

View attachment 9247616

It’s such a nonsense post
Pin placement and conditions are not even in the same ballpark.

 

[MGoBlue]

It’s such a nonsense post
Pin placement and conditions are not even in the same ballpark.

Sorry to post nonsense. Deleted.

 

[JB]

Sorry to post nonsense. Deleted.

It wasn’t about what you posted. It was about Golf Digest using social media as a narrative rather than reality.

its bait for their followers

 

[golfaddict77]

Longer than most am’s, no matter what they claim on the internet.

Definitely longer than most, but not me, and certainly a good number of others on here. At 46, most of my drives still end up between 270 and 290 yards or so. Over 300 only happens occasionally now, but I still get several drives a season over that benchmark. My problem is accuracy. Long doesn't help if it's not in play. That's where the ladies really shine. They will hit it down the middle all day long, and then stick their approach on the green most of the time. That's what I envy about them.

 

[jfox789]

A friend of mine regularly plays with an LPGA golfer. He is a +4 and they play the same tees. He claims their matches are won/lost 50% of the time.

 

[Slot708]

Depends who the pro is

 

[1860VS]

A buddy of mines wife was on the team at Arizona State. Now in her mid 30s, she can (and has) beaten some teaching pros I play with. From the same tees. Yea, I am sure LPGA ladies can kick ass as well.

 

[Gsea]

Carried on the LPGA/Epson/Symetra. Out of 10 times maybe once if she had a rough round.