Starting the swing

[annsguy]

@annsguy Sorry for derailing, but back on topic - I definitely struggle with swingpath and also try to initiate with the lead shoulder. I pretty much focus on a quick takeaway with the left side determining the path until the shaft is parallel to the ground. After that it’s a bit of a different feel, but that focus has helped get me started in the right direction.

Thanks, I keep trying this at different levels of speed off the ball. I appreciate your staying on topic.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

Thanks, I keep trying this at different levels of speed off the ball. I appreciate your staying on topic.

Sure thing. My last instructor had me go to parallel, stop and correct, go to the top, stop and correct, and then downswing. I played the best golf of my life following that lesson so maybe he was onto something.

 

[WILDTHING]

Sure thing. My last instructor had me go to parallel, stop and correct, go to the top, stop and correct, and then downswing. I played the best golf of my life following that lesson so maybe he was onto something.

What was he correcting and how did he know it was correct?

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

What was he correcting and how did he know it was correct?

My swing plane was so flat it was comical. I don’t know why nobody had mentioned this to me prior! We were trying to get more upright with the swing. I was basically trying to hit certain windows in the backswing and at the top and then validating these results with the ball flight we were looking for.

 

[razaar]

I try to keep the shoulders out of the backswing. My purpose is to swing my hands back and up parallel with the ball/target line to the top. The wrists fling the clubhead up to the top with the hands following the clubhead and the left shoulder following the hands. The motive power to start it off has the left thigh rotating towards the target and the left humerus rotating away from the target.

 

[Lane]

I try to keep the shoulders out of the backswing. My purpose is to swing my hands back and up parallel with the ball/target line to the top. The wrists fling the clubhead up to the top with the hands following the clubhead and the left shoulder following the hands. The motive power to start it off has the left thigh rotating towards the target and the left humerus rotating away from the target.

Razaar- come on . It can’t be that easy ! You don’t get to the P3 or P5 position making sure your left arm is parallel to the ground and your clubface starts straight back from the ball 18 inches ?
How could you be such a good player ? Maybe the first two sentences of your post explains - why ?

 

[Luchnia]

Looking at some live action driver swings by many top players to determine how to start the driver swing we often see small movements in various parts of the body that appear as the triggers, but what happens in those first couple feet of the takeaway?

Maria Fassi starts her swing with a simple and often small wrist movement at the club handle, but you don't always see this trigger movement. The entire start of the swing is a unified movement with an enormous amount of ground force reaction which produces fantastic results. The process happens in a moment of time and Maria makes it look super synchronized.

Looking at some videos of the pros start their driver swings might be helpful, but we as hackers might simply think be better not making the focus on what initiates the swing as much as trying to find the key that works for our individual styles. For me the less I think about the swing and the more I think about the "where" I am sending the ball the better my ball striking and the starting of the swing is.

In the video notice how Maria starts each of her swings and pay attention to how different parts of her body works in those brief trigger moments.

 

[hadi05]

This one has been an interesting read. Not that I have much to add but when I practice at home I have a 2 part back swing. First part I practice is the first parallel (shaft to ground). I check the club face, position of club and wrist. Second is full back swing position (Second parallel) and check the same things.

My takeaway starts straight back and with my left shoulder as the lead (this keeps my wrist from moving to early). I stop on full swings when my left shoulder is under my chin. I have a mid-high handicap so, not sure I'm the best person to take advice from.

 

[Lane]

I actually think that your dominant hands method makes sense. You're right that the body may figure it out. Especially with good athletes.

But there is a problem, let's say somebody decides to focus on their hands, because they are connected to the club and we are swinging that club after all. A lot of people will focus on their hands and snatch the club back and inside too fast and cause them to slide up and back onto their trail leg. This position is terrible because when they start down they will slide into their lead leg. This motion is a nightmare for somebody of average athletic ability. The flip side, they feel themselves slide up and back so they decide to fix it by stacking on their left with a reverse pivot. Then, when they start down, the fall back and start to fat every shot.

Now, let's assume the person stays nicely balanced between their feet, but still snatches the club back and inside because they are focusing on their hands. When they do this, their left arm is low and pinned to their chest. Being that hands are good movers, at the top their body decides to get the hands back in front of their chest and THROWS their trail shoulder out and over the top. We know that OTP move is terrible, no need to beat that drum.

But let's say that person is somewhat athletic and feels their left arm pinned to their chest and knows that throwing the hands out and over the top is bad, so they decide to keep their hands back and focus on a hard lower body turn. This is the dreaded stuck inside position. Coming into the ball, since the club is stuck inside, in order to make good contact, the golfer will have to flip the club face closed in order to make contact. This will usually result on one of two results long monsterous draws or smothered snap hooks. The golfer will usually recognize the latter as a problem and resist the flip, now their block slicers with a two way miss.

The answer to fix any of the above problems may not be "focus on your hands more." It may be to focus on your hands less.

That's the beauty of instruction and teaching and not having a shortsighted dogmatic approach to the golf swing.

I guess Ben Hogan never bought into this **** myth **** that if you swing flat from inside you will have to “square the face by flipping your hands .”
Thank goodness he didn’t buy into that crap or we might not have ever heard of him. These old ** MYTHS ** have a long life span and don’t die easily BC they have been regurgitated over many decades . Still are !!!!!

 

[Lane]

Looking at some live action driver swings by many top players to determine how to start the driver swing we often see small movements in various parts of the body that appear as the triggers, but what happens in those first couple feet of the takeaway?

Maria Fassi starts her swing with a simple and often small wrist movement at the club handle, but you don't always see this trigger movement. The entire start of the swing is a unified movement with an enormous amount of ground force reaction which produces fantastic results. The process happens in a moment of time and Maria makes it look super synchronized.

Looking at some videos of the pros start their driver swings might be helpful, but we as hackers might simply think be better not making the focus on what initiates the swing as much as trying to find the key that works for our individual styles. For me the less I think about the swing and the more I think about the "where" I am sending the ball the better my ball striking and the starting of the swing is.

In the video notice how Maria starts each of her swings and pay attention to how different parts of her body works in those brief trigger moments.

Someone needs to get to Fassi and tell her she shouldn’t be dropping her HANDS down and back behind her at the very start of her DS . Doesn’t she understand that she will have to ** flip ** her hands swinging down from inside so flat.
Why does she swing like Ben Hogan ?

 

[Desmond]

Looking at some live action driver swings by many top players to determine how to start the driver swing we often see small movements in various parts of the body that appear as the triggers, but what happens in those first couple feet of the takeaway?

Maria Fassi starts her swing with a simple and often small wrist movement at the club handle, but you don't always see this trigger movement. The entire start of the swing is a unified movement with an enormous amount of ground force reaction which produces fantastic results. The process happens in a moment of time and Maria makes it look super synchronized.

Looking at some videos of the pros start their driver swings might be helpful, but we as hackers might simply think be better not making the focus on what initiates the swing as much as trying to find the key that works for our individual styles. For me the less I think about the swing and the more I think about the "where" I am sending the ball the better my ball striking and the starting of the swing is.

In the video notice how Maria starts each of her swings and pay attention to how different parts of her body works in those brief trigger moments.

Too imperceptible for me. She is really late getting to the front side but with the driver, it's on a tee, so not as vital as other clubs. That is a flat but really shallow swing. I like the shallow part. She is jumping. I'm not that athletic... but I want to be,

 

[Lane]

I have observed Fassi closely v. She *pulls * her hands and arms and entire lever system back in one piece. Their is very little lower body movement at the start of her BS until her hips are forced to rotate which is necessary for her * stretch * her left side lat and back muscles to their max .

 

[jmix18]

I am totally dead at the start and frankly often I literally feel stressed. I’m 64 and have played since I was 22. I mentioned the brain several posts back and I believe thinking too much often gets in my way.

Guess it’s like Crash Davis says in Bull Durham… “Don’t think, it only hurts the ball club.”

 

[Lane]

Guess it’s like Crash Davis says in Bull Durham… “Don’t think, it only hurts the ball club.”

View attachment 9057430

Thinking only helps - if you are thinking about the correct thing. You can’t think about *** things *** during the DS . You ONLY have time to think about one ( 1) thing and it must be the correct one .

 

[jmix18]

@annsguy - when working with my instructor he’s had me really over exaggerate extending back at the beginning of my backswing and think about starting the swing with the big muscles in my upper back. For whatever reason that seems to work for me as I get a proper rotation and stay online. Zero chance to think about hands in my swing as 35 years of baseball and quick hands is killer on my golf swing.

 

[jmix18]

Thinking only helps - if you are thinking about the correct thing. You can’t think about *** things *** during the DS . You ONLY have time to think about one ( 1) thing and it must be the correct one .

I’ll respectfully disagree - as the more thinking that occurs the more mentally f’d I am on the course. I’ll stand by Crash’s first rule. “Don’t think, it only hurts the ball club (golf swing).”

 

[Lane]

@annsguy - when working with my instructor he’s had me really over exaggerate extending back at the beginning of my backswing and think about starting the swing with the big muscles in my upper back. For whatever reason that seems to work for me as I get a proper rotation and stay online. Zero chance to think about hands in my swing as 35 years of baseball and quick hands is killer on my golf swing.

You are correct- the hands can definitely destroy your golf swing if used incorrectly . Apparently, you have learned the correct way. Congrats!

 

[Luchnia]

@annsguy - when working with my instructor he’s had me really over exaggerate extending back at the beginning of my backswing and think about starting the swing with the big muscles in my upper back. For whatever reason that seems to work for me as I get a proper rotation and stay online. Zero chance to think about hands in my swing as 35 years of baseball and quick hands is killer on my golf swing.

I know some golfers that share this as they were previous baseball players and struggle with control because of the quick hands killing their swing. One guy told me he had to completely get the hands out of it and focus on the whole swing. When they do hit they crush the ball, but control is all but gone from them. I like how Tiger presents the hands and arms in his book as coming along for the ride (not a quote, but the idea and we can see how Tiger starts his driver swing.

 

[Luchnia]

Why does she swing like Ben Hogan ?

You see what you see. She does not remotely swing like Ben Hogan, but this is NOT the thread for who swings like Ben Hogan.

 

[jmix18]

I know some golfers that share this as they were previous baseball players and struggle with control because of the quick hands killing their swing. One guy told me he had to completely get the hands out of it and focus on the whole swing. When they do hit they crush the ball, but control is all but gone from them. I like how Tiger presents the hands and arms in his book as coming along for the ride (not a quote, but the idea and we can see how Tiger starts his driver swing.

I really think it’s just about getting moving and not thinking - for me that is. I had very quick hands and swing in baseball that had to be retuned for a golf swing. Big fault is when I don’t use the body and revert back to the Bball swing. Literally think about using my large back muscles to get things going and support my rotation.

 

[blugold]

I guess Ben Hogan never bought into this **** myth **** that if you swing flat from inside you will have to “square the face by flipping your hands .”
Thank goodness he didn’t buy into that crap or we might not have ever heard of him. These old ** MYTHS ** have a long life span and don’t die easily BC they have been regurgitated over many decades . Still are !!!!!

I've grown tired of your strawmen. I am going to do everything in my power to not respond to any of your intellectually disingenuous posts.

Good day, sir.

 

[Luchnia]

I've grown tired of your strawmen. I am going to do everything in my power to not respond to any of your intellectually disingenuous posts.

Good day, sir.

I am trying the same thing myself. I don't really care about the poster as much as what is posted that is false information and unrelated subject matter unless it is in light of the discussion. I know I can get off-track in discussion many times.

I learned years ago to deal with the problem and not point at the person, which in this case all we can deal with is false, or unproven information from the points being made. I think you and I are simply trying to portray reasonable information and expose fallacies.

I would hope the same type of scrutiny is done against what I post. I like to make every attempt to share value added information and never want to mislead anyone, whether it be golf, or otherwise. Even though they may not realize it, I have gotten some great help from THPers. I am sure others have as well. Now back to the regular scheduled program...

 

[blugold]

I am trying the same thing myself. I don't really care about the poster as much as what is posted that is false information and unrelated subject matter unless it is in light of the discussion. I know I can get off-track in discussion many times.

I learned years ago to deal with the problem and not point at the person, which in this case all we can deal with is false, or unproven information from the points being made. I think you and I are simply trying to portray reasonable information and expose fallacies.

I would hope the same type of scrutiny is done against what I post. I like to make every attempt to share value added information and never want to mislead anyone, whether it be golf, or otherwise. Even though they may not realize it, I have gotten some great help from THPers. I am sure others have as well. Now back to the regular scheduled program...

People are wrong everyday on the internet. I've tried to handle that better over the years, sometimes I fail at it (like when somebody the brain can only make some decisions every 2 seconds or that pitchers and quarterbacks don't think about their feet when throwing).

 

[Carolina Golfer]

Looking at some live action driver swings by many top players to determine how to start the driver swing we often see small movements in various parts of the body that appear as the triggers, but what happens in those first couple feet of the takeaway?

Maria Fassi starts her swing with a simple and often small wrist movement at the club handle, but you don't always see this trigger movement. The entire start of the swing is a unified movement with an enormous amount of ground force reaction which produces fantastic results. The process happens in a moment of time and Maria makes it look super synchronized.

Looking at some videos of the pros start their driver swings might be helpful, but we as hackers might simply think be better not making the focus on what initiates the swing as much as trying to find the key that works for our individual styles. For me the less I think about the swing and the more I think about the "where" I am sending the ball the better my ball striking and the starting of the swing is.

In the video notice how Maria starts each of her swings and pay attention to how different parts of her body works in those brief trigger moments.

Thanks, for sharing. I see a one piece takeaway, load/coil into the trail leg, start downswing from the ground up, maybe some reaction ground force (getting vertical and on her toes), while posting on the target leg. Isn't this the golf swing were all chasing? But, not easy to do?

 

[Desmond]

I’ll respectfully disagree - as the more thinking that occurs the more mentally f’d I am on the course. I’ll stand by Crash’s first rule. “Don’t think, it only hurts the ball club (golf swing).”

When I finally establish a pattern, I only want to focus on a rhythm.