Lions81
Well-known member
Got ya. Remember that was all carry since its landing in the rough, and its at sea level. He's just a kid I pay close attention to because he's going to be an absolute stud (already is).
USGA and R&A - Distance Rollback Proposals
Got ya. Remember that was all carry since its landing in the rough, and its at sea level. He's just a kid I pay close attention to because he's going to be an absolute stud (already is).
And such a simple solution. I remember the course conditions back in the 1980s, and the agronomy was so much different. Fairways were mowed much longer, and the rough was not mowed as often. If they want to dial back distance, it would be easy to let the rough and fairways grow longer for the PGA tour events, tighten the fairways, and water the landing areas Between about 265 and 340 yards. Problem solved. Obviously, most of us don't want to see US Open conditions each week, nor do the players.
If they bifurcate on the ball and/or equipment, I can guarantee the OEM's will sue the hell out of the USGA. More than 50% of the sponsorship money for the PGA Tour TV ads comes from the manufacturers, and they will be forced to reduce their budgets dramatically if the pros are playing a specific "Tour" ball or driver/FW. If I were an executive at Callaway, TM, Ping, etc., I would be calling the PGA Tour commissioner and letting him know that the ad budgets will be cut dramatically.
I hope the PGA Tour disagrees with bifurcation and will tell the USGA to go to hell, but I honestly don't know their stance or how aggressive they would get resisting bifurcation.
- Moderator
- #103
they won't roll the ball back for all golfers - so I feel pretty good not having to make any big claims in here.
...and if they do it on tour, all that's going to make me do is like the tour less, I guess. If I even bother to watch.
For a solution, there first needs to be a problem.
Agree on the player. He has the potential to be very successful Tour player.
Limiting the driver to 46" wouldn't kill me even though I have been having good results with a 47.5" driver on the simulator. I will wait to see suggestions before commenting on the ball. I would say they could let the fairways on PGA events be longer than putting greens and the distance would roll back.
Change is hard. And inevitable.
I have never understood many of these desires. I hear complaints that driving ranges are too small for tour events, ok.. That is like 4 days year that is problem. The rest of the time people are beating dimple'less short flight balls.
Messing with equipment is a 
move by USGA and R&A.... This would be a terrible terrible thing and would hammer OEM departments. This is just insane
move by USGA and R&A.... This would be a terrible terrible thing and would hammer OEM departments. This is just insane
- Moderator
- #111
Improper change is illogical. Citing tour statistics to promote change is illogical.
Of course change is hard. You know what's not hard? LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE PICTURE instead of a couple hundred freaks of nature abusing bad course designs.
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
Agreed!
It's one thing to do this to the Tour players, but why punish the non Tour player? The game is all about fun for 99% of us. Other than that, if you're playing for money in a non Tour event, let them decide. It's sort of like limiting bats in softball tournaments. It's part of the game and if you know ahead of time, you bring the right bats. But don't limit everyone else's fun.
I love one when side of an argument cites “change is hard” as a straw man I am more sophisticated than you position. It’s arrogant and condescending. Not wanting change is not fear of change.
also wanting a good reason for change is not fear of change. You could spin that same sentence 180 and say the old gaurd of the game are those that are unwilling to accept growth and change.
so yes. “Change is hard” and “you can’t teach old dogs new tricks”.
A great take on dialing back distance from Gary McCord. https://golf.com/gear/gary-mccord-bifurcation-rolling-back-golf-ball-bryson/
An excerpt:
“If I’m the longest at 340 yards, like Bryson, then I’m going to be the longest at 290. I’m still going to be the longest…all that’s going to do is bring back these old golf courses… instead, Bryson’s going to be out there with a driver and 6-iron, and everyone else will be hitting a 4-iron.
“It’s all relative, and that’s how we’re gearing all of the [strokes gained] stats now. But would that make the game better for the viewer? Um… I really like to watch these guys bomb it and take bunkers out at 320. It’s kind of interesting.
“This Tour now, if you look at the top-10 guys, go find a guy that doinks it down the fairway. I dare you. You can’t do it. I tell these kids now… I say, ‘You learn to fly it 320 because that’s where the farthest bunker is. If you can hit it over that bunker and you can take the crookedness out of the dogleg, you’re going to beat these other guys in the longterm. You can’t if you’re hitting a 3-wood short and hitting a 5-iron, and they’re hitting a sand wedge. You’re gonna get killed.’
“…that’s where it is right now. And Bryson, I do believe is going to ignite a fire – a hellfire – of getting bigger and stronger and everything else.”
An excerpt:
“If I’m the longest at 340 yards, like Bryson, then I’m going to be the longest at 290. I’m still going to be the longest…all that’s going to do is bring back these old golf courses… instead, Bryson’s going to be out there with a driver and 6-iron, and everyone else will be hitting a 4-iron.
“It’s all relative, and that’s how we’re gearing all of the [strokes gained] stats now. But would that make the game better for the viewer? Um… I really like to watch these guys bomb it and take bunkers out at 320. It’s kind of interesting.
“This Tour now, if you look at the top-10 guys, go find a guy that doinks it down the fairway. I dare you. You can’t do it. I tell these kids now… I say, ‘You learn to fly it 320 because that’s where the farthest bunker is. If you can hit it over that bunker and you can take the crookedness out of the dogleg, you’re going to beat these other guys in the longterm. You can’t if you’re hitting a 3-wood short and hitting a 5-iron, and they’re hitting a sand wedge. You’re gonna get killed.’
“…that’s where it is right now. And Bryson, I do believe is going to ignite a fire – a hellfire – of getting bigger and stronger and everything else.”
this is the way. hit the tour HARD in its pocket. this rule is reaching directly into the pocket of the OEMs, so they too can hit back.
- Moderator
- #117
I support positive change for golf in a big way. I've been a heavy proponent of supporting altered rules from the latest changes to make the game more enjoyable for golfers of all skill levels on both social, THP, and my home courses committees and advisory board. I rarely seek out what benefits me the most when doing so.
The idea that change is hard is fair, but the execution and logic surrounding it had better be sound.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2010
- Messages
- 19,618
- Reaction score
- 4,085
- Location
- Liberty Lake, Washington
- Handicap
- GHIN 7.1
Hopefully they will see the error of their ways......
CorvetteGuy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2020
- Messages
- 1,300
- Reaction score
- 1,462
- Location
- Great PNW - Seattle Area
- Handicap
- GHIN 7.6
Why is the 46" driver limit even possibly on the table? what has a 48" driver done to the game?
I am an old guy at 74 and tall, been swinging a 48" driver for 4-5 years - can't imagine swing a short club. I have 6 drivers all 48" including a B21 Callaway. Damn this would really chap my hide if this change were to happen.
I am an old guy at 74 and tall, been swinging a 48" driver for 4-5 years - can't imagine swing a short club. I have 6 drivers all 48" including a B21 Callaway. Damn this would really chap my hide if this change were to happen.
Support the timber industry, make them use Hickory Sticks!!
Man the USGA and the NCAA have a lot in common. I'm a fairly conservative guy. But both these organizations scream to me "old and privileged." So out of touch with anything modern in the game.
I know very little about club or ball tech and defer to those here that know more. But I for one, as a mid 30's average height and weight guy enjoy hitting the occasional 300 yard drive with my modern equipment. If they take that ability away from amateurs they sure aren't going to grow the game.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Man the USGA and the NCAA have a lot in common. I'm a fairly conservative guy. But both these organizations scream to me "old and privileged." So out of touch with anything modern in the game.
I know very little about club or ball tech and defer to those here that know more. But I for one, as a mid 30's average height and weight guy enjoy hitting the occasional 300 yard drive with my modern equipment. If they take that ability away from amateurs they sure aren't going to grow the game.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
- Moderator
- #121
because all they see is a couple guys on tour experimenting with the longer shafts and suddenly it's a problem.Why is the 46" driver limit even possibly on the table? what has a 48" driver done to the game?
I am an old guy at 74 and tall, been swinging a 48" driver for 4-5 years - can't imagine swing a short club. I have 6 drivers all 48" including a B21 Callaway. Damn this would really chap my hide if this change were to happen.
Remember when stock length was 46.5-47 a few years ago, because the OEMs knew it meant longer drives? It didn't last because it's insanely inaccurate in an average height person's hands.
If I was given an arguemt that didn’t feel like it was coming from those that time had passed or what felt like ultra private elite courses feeling outdated. I would readily accept a change that made the game better for everyone..
True, but the one guy who shot under par at Winged Foot was that guy - the current poster guy for this distance debate
The USGA doesn't care about you.Why is the 46" driver limit even possibly on the table? what has a 48" driver done to the game?
I am an old guy at 74 and tall, been swinging a 48" driver for 4-5 years - can't imagine swing a short club. I have 6 drivers all 48" including a B21 Callaway. Damn this would really chap my hide if this change were to happen.
This X1000000000000. The only people going to be hurt by rolling the equipment back are the people who weren't the reason for this to begin with. The idea that the equipment needs rolled back is asinine to me. I can't think of one reason it needs rolled back. Would you take track and field back to cinder tracks, because times are getting too fast? Take basketball rims to 16', because there are too many dunks in the game? Take football back to no forward passes, because the RB isn't as important as it once was?
This old mentality surrounding the game of golf will be the demise of the sport. Period.