Am I a Sandbagger?

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Spaceman, you know I love you right? HAHA But to say this is simple strategy is in my opinion wrong. There have been many days I have put the driver away because I am hitting it bad. Reason why? Because it is hurting my score! I know it is hurting me on that day. If True goes out and hits his first 4 drives OB and knows it is going to be a bad driving day yet continues to use it because nothing is on the line instead of putting it away and maybe grinding out a mid 90's round with out the Driver and does this round after round, he is inflating his HC. It may be somewhat unintentional, but the result in these actions isn't a true HC. If I found out I was a scratch golfer by not using my driver, it would be gone. And I certainly wouldn't game it in all of my non tourney rounds and shoot in the high 70's, then put Driver away for tourneys and shoot 69. I just wouldn't feel right about it.

Much love TH much love! I understand and you make a great point and I can be swayed. I just don't think his intention or he is a sandbagger. he's not trying to inflate his handicap, he's just playing golf as we all do with all the tools he's afforded. When more is at stake, he makes better decisions knowing the results will be better. Perhaps he should play more rounds in leisure without the driver and post those scores as well. But he's working within the confines of the rules without harm or intent to harm IMO.

still much love TH!

 

[Canio]

Just go get fitted for a new driver.

My thoughts exactly. I don't use a driver that doesn't work for me. I get a new driver! Or lessons!!

On the other hand, it very well could be considered sandbagging. If you know that using the driver is a 6 shot difference in your score, then, only using it for handicap reasons and NOT using it in tournaments IS sandbagging.

It's NOT the same as using a hybrid or FW off the tee for a tight fairway or a dogleg where I do not way to run out of fairway.

 

[Canadan]

Much love TH much love! I understand and you make a great point and I can be swayed. I just don't think his intention or he is a sandbagger. he's not trying to inflate his handicap, he's just playing golf as we all do with all the tools he's afforded. When more is at stake, he makes better decisions knowing the results will be better. Perhaps he should play more rounds in leisure without the driver and post those scores as well. But he's working within the confines of the rules without harm or intent to harm IMO.

Here's where you lost me. If he knows his scores will be better and does something intentionally to better his scores ONLY in competitive rounds, how does his handicap adequately reflect his golf game?

I know my scores are better when I line up my putts instead of 2/3 putting with a wedge during my non-competitive rounds.. Would I be taking advantage of the handicap system by using a wedge within 10 feet on the green instead of a putter in my practice rounds, and then switching to a putter in my competitive rounds? (and I know these are semantics.. I'm just thinking out loud)

 

[tomahawk18]

Much love TH much love! I understand and you make a great point and I can be swayed. I just don't think his intention or he is a sandbagger. he's not trying to inflate his handicap, he's just playing golf as we all do with all the tools he's afforded. When more is at stake, he makes better decisions knowing the results will be better. Perhaps he should play more rounds in leisure without the driver and post those scores as well. But he's working within the confines of the rules without harm or intent to harm IMO.

still much love TH!

I can't disagree too much with what you are saying except for the fact that it seems that if you are using that little number next to your name as a barometer for your game, yet the majority of your posted rounds are played without your optimum setup and it vastly effects your scores.... HMMM? He is acknowledging that he shoots much better without his driver. This is factual according to True. Then why use the driver in every non competitive round knowing your score is going to be worse? I would mix in the driver and try to improve with it, but if best scores are always without his driver, shouldn't he game that setup in non competitive rounds at least some of the time? Like I said if he is terrible with his driver on the first few holes, put it away. And if I am him, I never game it. I just don't get why you would want to use the driver and shoot 110, when he has proved he can put it away and shoot in the low 90's?

 

[Canio]

Most of us high/mid handicaps would benefit from using the 3w off the tee anyway.

Years ago, I used to use my 3W at the start of the golfing season until my swing came around. Then, I would use my driver. The OP may think it's only mental, but it must be a combo of mental and swing problems with the driver.

 

[Tmex]

I agree and you make a good point. Hopefully all ends well with TrueFX at his club.

Years ago, I used to use my 3W at the start of the golfing season until my swing came around. Then, I would use my driver. The OP may think it's only mental, but it must be a combo of mental and swing problems with the driver.

 

[tnc200]

If a guy claims a hdcp of 19, then shoots 10 over without his driver at tourney setup, something is hinky. Submitting cards for hdcp is supposed to mean a player is trying his best to shoot the lowest score on that round too. That is why a guy will only beat his hdcp maybe 25% of the time, and usually by a few strokes at the most.
Hate to say it but if you have already heard rumblings the damage is already done. I guess some guys can blow rounds by throwing drives into the rough and taking snowmen every hole. Most guys only get to play-card one or two rounds a week and that barely keeps them current. Those same guys probably are just as competitive about regular rounds as their tourney rounds. This would be like only working when the boss was watching, harsh but funny.

 

[Canio]

Call it what you want but at this point its a matter of semantics. Your handicap is not an accurate representation of your ability on the golf course. I don't think anyone here can legitimately argue that point.

+1......

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Here's where you lost me. If he knows his scores will be better and does something intentionally to better his scores ONLY in competitive rounds, how does his handicap adequately reflect his golf game?

I know my scores are better when I line up my putts instead of 2/3 putting with a wedge during my non-competitive rounds.. Would I be taking advantage of the handicap system by using a wedge within 10 feet on the green instead of a putter in my practice rounds, and then switching to a putter in my competitive rounds? (and I know these are semantics.. I'm just thinking out loud)

But he's not TRYING to inflate his score otherwise. He's playing the game with all the tools he's afforded and making decisions based on the current environment. I know you mention semantics in your above putting analogy, but if your intent was to inflate you handicap then yes that's taking advantage of the system. In the end, you're not forced to hit driver EVER just like you're not forced to use a putter either. The semantics really come down to morality. The fact that he even posed this question on himself is taking a big risk. He's been labeled sandbagger now in the negative connotation by many. He's asked an honest question and given honest information. He's not trying to cheat the system, he's playing within the guidelines.

I can't disagree too much with what you are saying except for the fact that it seems that if you are using that little number next to your name as a barometer for your game, yet the majority of your posted rounds are played without your optimum setup and it vastly effects your scores.... HMMM? He is acknowledging that he shoots much better without his driver. This is factual according to True. Then why use the driver in every non competitive round knowing your score is going to be worse? I would mix in the driver and try to improve with it, but if best scores are always without his driver, shouldn't he game that setup in non competitive rounds at least some of the time? Like I said if he is terrible with his driver on the first few holes, put it away. And if I am him, I never game it. I just don't get why you would want to use the driver and shoot 110, when he has proved he can put it away and shoot in the low 90's?

I definitely agree and understand this thought process TH. That is what I would do personally as well and have done many times!

 

[DonW]

I can't stay away from this thread. It's maddening and interesting all in the same.

I just passed over the handicaps of those posting and it's interesting where some of the views fall and what the handicap is. Not always the case but it seems that way.

I was really looking at getting into some tournaments but from what I'm gathering it might be too much of a hassle. People lying about handicaps, people getting critizied for strategy... Just seems like one big hassle and bicker fest.

Yoccos,

I've never played for more than dinner or drinks with my cousins, to me golf was always a test of my self against the course. Then last summer my cousin asked me to play on his team in their league, thought what the heck should be fun, the bickering/arguing started before we even teed off. By the end of the night I swore never again was most definitely not my idea of a relaxing summer evening, these guys would have used their grandmothers nose as a tee if they thought it would help them win the match. Can only imagine what the discussions were like after the OP posted his scores. :bicker:

 

[Tmex]

Yikes Don! I understand why people do it, but man this has really opened my eyes. I bet there was a ton of talk after scores were posted, without even having the full story.

Yoccos,

I've never played for more than dinner or drinks with my cousins, to me golf was always a test of my self against the course. Then last summer my cousin asked me to play on his team in their league, thought what the heck should be fun, the bickering/arguing started before we even teed off. By the end of the night I swore never again was most definitely not my idea of a relaxing summer evening, these guys would have used their grandmothers nose as a tee if they thought it would help them win the match. Can only imagine what the discussions were like after the OP posted his scores. :bicker:

 

[JRod]

This should have died like 5 pages ago.

 

[Tmex]

I think I tried but I was perculating this one too much. All semantics!

This should have died like 5 pages ago.

 

[tnc200]

Yikes Don! I understand why people do it, but man this has really opened my eyes. I bet there was a ton of talk after scores were posted, without even having the full story.

The scorecards will tell the tale better than anything. Whoever oversees his club will have some fun with this one.

 

[Bullfrog]

After reading pages and pages of this topic. I figured I would let you guys know what my opinion is. Again, it's just an opinion.

I think that he is hurting his true handicap score by not at least trying to hit his driver at the beginning of the competitions. But I don't think he is sandbagging. The reason I don't think he is sandbagging is that he has a choice of which clubs he wants to use at which time. It is his decision on what he wants to play. Everyone else in the competition has the same choices he has. If it were required to use your driver it would be a different story IMO but it's not. I totally understand why his club thinks he is sandbagging. They are just upset that they aren't using "Course Management" to their advantage like he is.

Okay now for the way I play. I use every club in my bag everytime I play if it calls for it. I'm not a pro I don't hit everyclub in my bag perfect all the time, what am I gonna do put my whole bag in "TIMEOUT"? I just switched drivers and am kind of struggling with it. But when I tee off at leagues tomorrow I will still be using my driver. That is my game. I won't "Punish" a club because I can't hit it perfect everytime. As Danny P tells me all the time... "IT'S NOT THE ARROW IT'S THE INDIAN".

 

[Lefty78]

The club could and probably should use the USGA table on the odds of shooting an exceptional score and lower your handicap to an acceptable amount to be fair to other players. Those tables can be found here: http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/understanding_handicap/articles/deanstable.html

I have a buddy with a 22 course handicap and he on rare occasions does shoot a low score but never in back to back tournaments.

The high handicap flights can be brutal but there is something wrong when a high handicap consistently shoots low in tournaments.

 

[Esox]

At my club they use only scores shot in club events to determine your "tournament handicap". Works pretty well. My tournament handicap is one shot higher than my 'cap from the WSGA,

Kevin

 

[mikedean441]

I dont see how this is sandbagging? Rule is 14 clubs, dont have to use them all, the handicap system should not have anything to do with what clubs the person played in a given round

 

[Smallville]

I dont see how this is sandbagging? Rule is 14 clubs, dont have to use them all, the handicap system should not have anything to do with what clubs the person played in a given round

To all the people who still think there is noting at all wrong with this, did anyone see the following post? Would you really be willing to play him in a big money game based on handicaps knowing he is going to play it like a tournament?

Question for the defenders of the OP: Let's substitute tournament play with a money game.

Would you still consider it legitimate strategy if the OP decided to bury his driver only in high stakes money games where you were giving him strokes?

 

[coolbreeze]

To all the people who still think there is noting at all wrong with this, did anyone see the following post? Would you really be willing to play him in a big money game based on handicaps knowing he is going to play it like a tournament?

Wow, I never saw that post Smalls, and while I am and always have been in the yes this is sandbagging club on this, that was a great way to put in by 50 eggs.