What Rule Would You Change?

[Canadan]

I don't think divots should be GUR, if we start doing this then you have to have another rule as to what constitutes a divot, how big does it have to be, how deep, do you get relieve if it's sand filled or only if it wasn't repaired? Just too many variables...as others have said, if you ball hits the trees and bounces back in the fairway you don't throw it in the woods or if you skip one over the water you don't toss it back in the lake.

Have you ever hit a shot and find in sitting next to the rake right outside the bunker....most of us have...did you kick it in the bunker because you got lucky? How about the time you pulled a drive and it landed on the cart path and bounced like three times only to end up back in the fairway 50 yards further than you could ever hope to hit it.....did you pick it up and move it back to where it should have been??

I think you get the point, we all have our share of good luck and bad luck on the course...it's part of what makes this game great! Now when I find my ball in an unrepaired divot or an unraked bunker do I get upset.....you damn skippy I do....but it's all part of the game.

The problem I have with a lot of the examples you've listed are that they all reference hitting into or towards hazards. Trees and rakes are a part of the golf course. They were placed there or left there for a reason (for the record I favour rakes IN bunkers not outside). In the case of a divot in the fairway, it's not how the course was designed. It's a flaw in the course just as a pitch mark on the green is. I personally think there's a big difference between getting lucky avoiding a hazard (aka hitting a poor shot), and getting unlucky hitting in the fairway (aka where you were aiming).

Regarding the bold, is this really something that has to be closely modified if the rule were set in place? If the ball is in the fairway on an imperfection (despite how loosely defined that is), a ten second drop within a club length isn't really going to make a world of difference is it? Fairway shots remain fairway shots rather than having to deal with other peoples inability to properly repair their divots.

 

[JohnEB]

The last time I was on a course that had a sand mix on the cart, both bottles were full of cigarette butts.

So ... did the cig butts do a good job filling the divot? :smirk:

 

[TripleBogieTim]

The problem I have with a lot of the examples you've listed are that they all reference hitting into or towards hazards. Trees and rakes are a part of the golf course. They were placed there or left there for a reason (for the record I favour rakes IN bunkers not outside). In the case of a divot in the fairway, it's not how the course was designed. It's a flaw in the course just as a pitch mark on the green is. I personally think there's a big difference between getting lucky avoiding a hazard (aka hitting a poor shot), and getting unlucky hitting in the fairway (aka where you were aiming).

Regarding the bold, is this really something that has to be closely modified if the rule were set in place? If the ball is in the fairway on an imperfection (despite how loosely defined that is), a ten second drop within a club length isn't really going to make a world of difference is it? Fairway shots remain fairway shots rather than having to deal with other peoples inability to properly repair their divots.

I do so the difference you are making in the comparisons and I understand what you are saying....if I am not mistaken this exact issue was brought up in front of the PGA rules committee and the first thing that was said was they would have to write a whole set of guidelines as to what is a divot and what isn't...does the bare spot in the fairway fall under the same rule? What about if I land on that one weed clump in the fairway...just something to think about.

 

[Canadan]

I do so the difference you are making in the comparisons and I understand what you are saying....if I am not mistaken this exact issue was brought up in front of the PGA rules committee and the first thing that was said was they would have to write a whole set of guidelines as to what is a divot and what isn't...does the bare spot in the fairway fall under the same rule? What about if I land on that one weed clump in the fairway...just something to think about.

I hear you man, for sure, although I don't know that anyone could convince me that a weed cluster is a divot hahaha! (jk of course!!)

I can definitely see the variable, but if I were playing a money game with someone and we decided on the first tee to drop out of divots as a rule for the game, I really wouldn't make much of an attempt to review any divots my opponent believed they were in.. I'd just tell them to go for it. My point ends up being that if they are in the fairway off the tee, they deserve a shot off of fairway, not dirt/sand/etc as that's not how the fairway was designed to be played.

 

[blugold]

The problem I have with a lot of the examples you've listed are that they all reference hitting into or towards hazards. Trees and rakes are a part of the golf course. They were placed there or left there for a reason (for the record I favour rakes IN bunkers not outside). In the case of a divot in the fairway, it's not how the course was designed. It's a flaw in the course just as a pitch mark on the green is. I personally think there's a big difference between getting lucky avoiding a hazard (aka hitting a poor shot), and getting unlucky hitting in the fairway (aka where you were aiming).

Regarding the bold, is this really something that has to be closely modified if the rule were set in place? If the ball is in the fairway on an imperfection (despite how loosely defined that is), a ten second drop within a club length isn't really going to make a world of difference is it? Fairway shots remain fairway shots rather than having to deal with other peoples inability to properly repair their divots.

I disagree. Any course is designed to be played how it lays in front of you. Divots and pitch marks included. Golf is not about playing a course as it appears in ideal conditions, but how the course is in actuality.

You never hear final round leaders complain that they had to play in the final pairing after the rest of the field destroyed the course.

 

[Canadan]

I disagree. Any course is designed to be played how it lays in front of you. Divots and pitch marks included. Golf is not about playing a course as it appears in ideal conditions, but how the course is in actuality.

You never hear final round leaders complain that they had to play in the final pairing after the rest of the field destroyed the course.

You're welcome to disagree, but I've never seen a course maker design a course with divots on it. They are man made just like the moron who doesn't fix his ball mark (aka pitch mark) on the green which you are allowed to fix, or doesn't rake the bunker after hitting out of it. I also like how you speak in what you believe to be facts, yet many courses mark off parts of the fairway as ground under repair on account of various conditions like dead grass, soft spots, etc. Are those courses ruining the spirit of the game based on your definition of how people should play the actual course conditions??

 

[Tadashi70]

What is the divot is filled with sand? Free drop? What if you land on a replaced divot? It's part of golf, no free drop should be taken. It's such an infrequent part of the game. I can't remember the last time I landed on divot (filled or open)
I wonder how you would feel if you had made par or better. Carl P. landed in an unfilled divot over the weekend and played a great shot into the hole, made par. I know he is pro and should know how to hit out of them. But so should the average golfer, IMO.
It sounds like some already remove their ball if it lands in a divot and that's fine if you never want to improve. Learn to play he shot and dance with who you brought.

 

[gioguy21]

i once found myself in 3 different fairway divots in the first 9 holes once. first one, first hole. second one, third hole came to rest in one on my layup into a par 5...third one came on the par 4 8th hole on my drive. i honestly looked up to the sky and asked what i did wrong, thought about curling in a fetal position in the fairway and just laying there...instead, took my lumps and swore off golf that week. *sigh*

 

[Jjmorris]

i once found myself in 3 different fairway divots in the first 9 holes once. first one, first hole. second one, third hole came to rest in one on my layup into a par 5...third one came on the par 4 8th hole on my drive. i honestly looked up to the sky and asked what i did wrong, thought about curling in a fetal position in the fairway and just laying there...instead, took my lumps and swore off golf that week. *sigh*

That is pretty funny... Good laughs

 

[Lefty78]

I hear you man, for sure, although I don't know that anyone could convince me that a weed cluster is a divot hahaha! (jk of course!!)

I can definitely see the variable, but if I were playing a money game with someone and we decided on the first tee to drop out of divots as a rule for the game, I really wouldn't make much of an attempt to review any divots my opponent believed they were in.. I'd just tell them to go for it. My point ends up being that if they are in the fairway off the tee, they deserve a shot off of fairway, not dirt/sand/etc as that's not how the fairway was designed to be played.

I'm repeating myself here, but you are only entitled to the lie you get, not the lie you think you deserve. It is part of the game, good breaks, bad breaks, it all evens out eventually. Once we start putting our hand on the ball, there are no rules because we have violated "the" primary rule. Play the ball as it lies.

 

[Canadan]

I'm repeating myself here, but you are only entitled to the lie you get, not the lie you think you deserve. It is part of the game, good breaks, bad breaks, it all evens out eventually. Once we start putting our hand on the ball, there are no rules because we have violated "the" primary rule. Play the ball as it lies.

I don't really get why you quoted me here.. People are allowed to play whatever rules they feel like in a given game amongst themselves, which is what I was referring to in my post. I believe that in a head to head game if my opponent gets a ball into the fairway off the tee he should be given a fairway shot to the green, not a shot out of a divot. As long as the rules are defined on the first tee between both parties (like lift/clean/place after a heavy rain) there really shouldn't be any objections. Especially considering if I opt to post that score it's really only working against me as a handicap is there to keep things fair when playing other golfers with all rules in mind.

 

[blugold]

You're welcome to disagree, but I've never seen a course maker design a course with divots on it. They are man made just like the moron who doesn't fix his ball mark (aka pitch mark) on the green which you are allowed to fix, or doesn't rake the bunker after hitting out of it. I also like how you speak in what you believe to be facts, yet many courses mark off parts of the fairway as ground under repair on account of various conditions like dead grass, soft spots, etc. Are those courses ruining the spirit of the game based on your definition of how people should play the actual course conditions??

Except soft spots and winter are effects nature. Divots, pitch marks, and unraked bunkers are effects of the course being played.

In my opinion just play out of the divot and be happy being alive.

 

[McRock]

It seems like a simple enough rule change, but my question would be, where does this stop? Can I get a free drop when my ball lands on crab grass in the fairway? What about water grass? What if there's a patch of green in front of me that has a couple 3 leaf clovers between me and the cup? What about the fact that occassionally, our rather old greens keeper misses a spot in the fairway with the mower, and my ball lands in a patch of tall grass right in the middle?

Unless I'm in competition, I just lift and place anyways, and I don't think I'm good enough to tell much difference between hitting out of a divot or hitting off the fairway.

As a side note, I definitely fix all divots, probably because I feel like I'm one of the few on my course that does fix divots, and ball marks on greens.

~Rock

 

[Lefty78]

I don't really get why you quoted me here.. People are allowed to play whatever rules they feel like in a given game amongst themselves, which is what I was referring to in my post. I believe that in a head to head game if my opponent gets a ball into the fairway off the tee he should be given a fairway shot to the green, not a shot out of a divot. As long as the rules are defined on the first tee between both parties (like lift/clean/place after a heavy rain) there really shouldn't be any objections. Especially considering if I opt to post that score it's really only working against me as a handicap is there to keep things fair when playing other golfers with all rules in mind.

No problem with you doing what ever you want on the course. I quoted you because you used the term "deserve." I am merely saying that "deserve a shot out of the fairway" is an opinion. As far as your game, play how you like, whatever it takes to enjoy the day, it's recreation after all, just have a good time. I suspect that if we ever get to tee it up together we will have a great day. (not far-fetched, I play all over the country)

 

[jefrazie]

I thin as many shots as possible, that way I leave no divot to be repaired.

If somebody complains that they shot a bad score because they had to hit out of a divot on a good drive, then they're not deserving of a good score.

I just think of Arnold and want to yell "Stop whinning""

Golf karma always comes full circle.

LOL that is one way to always prevent divots.

 

[JohnEB]

... Unless I'm in competition, I just lift and place anyways, and I don't think I'm good enough to tell much difference between hitting out of a divot or hitting off the fairway.

As a side note, I definitely fix all divots, probably because I feel like I'm one of the few on my course that does fix divots, and ball marks on greens.

~Rock

I agree with this. Hit out of a divot, don't hit out of a divot -- that's low on the list of where my game needs to improve. I sometimes miss the green by 20 yards from a clean lie 100 yards out in the middle of the fairway. I view this play-from-divots-or-not issue as highly dependent on your skills and goals. If I were to ever get to a handicap of 5, then I might see where the divot-play is a key skill. With HC~20, not so much. And even if you do carry a 5 -- enjoy yourself and the game, as long as you don't advertise yourself as the best out-of-divot-player, lift it if you want.

 

[cj3ap2]

If I land in something that undoubtedly shouldve been raked, I lift, rake, and drop, not place.

I apologize if this has already been brought up, I don't really have time (and am kind of lazy) to read through the entire thread).

I don't take issue with your above strategy (not that it would matter anyway), just using it as a jumping off point.

Anyway, I want to be corrected if I am incorrect on this, but I'm under the impression that eons ago bunkers were never raked and the extreme inconsistancy in possible lies one could get because of that was part of the penalty for being in a bunker. I heard that when the masters began being shown on tv and courses saw the immaculate look of the layout , saw that augusta raked their bunkers and how good it looked, that other courses started to follow suit. That previously the intention of golf was never for the bunkers to be raked?

tl;dr: were bunkers originally intended to be raked? or was the even more randomness of a lie in an unraked bunker intended to be part of the penalty of being in a bunker?

 

[Tadashi70]

I don't really get why you quoted me here.. People are allowed to play whatever rules they feel like in a given game amongst themselves, which is what I was referring to in my post. I believe that in a head to head game if my opponent gets a ball into the fairway off the tee he should be given a fairway shot to the green, not a shot out of a divot. As long as the rules are defined on the first tee between both parties (like lift/clean/place after a heavy rain) there really shouldn't be any objections. Especially considering if I opt to post that score it's really only working against me as a handicap is there to keep things fair when playing other golfers with all rules in mind.

If decided amongst the players then I agree with you. But as a general rule set fourth, I do like the change. I often play two off the first with my buds and that is our decision. Buts it's also against the rules of golf.

 

[Canadan]

If decided amongst the players then I agree with you. But as a general rule set fourth, I do like the change. I often play two off the first with my buds and that is our decision. Buts it's also against the rules of golf.

haha the old breakfast ball eh? It's a beauty if there is no warmup, but I've recently shy'ed away from it.. Not really sure why.

 

[tnc200]

I play mine "as it lies". I agree with the posts that say scorewise it won't matter so I opt on the safe/rules side in all matters golf. I flub, thin, chunk and top enough perfect fairway lies to make this a trivial matter. I saw a great youtube vid of the punch shot out of a divot and I actually looking forward to trying it next time. That should take some of the injustice out of it. My playing partner fluffs his lies and I notice, but as long as he doesn't boast about a score, I keep my mouth shut about it.

 

[mikedean441]

haha the old breakfast ball eh? It's a beauty if there is no warmup, but I've recently shy'ed away from it.. Not really sure why.

Ive played in michigan a few times, people are offended if you DONT take 2 off the first tee

 

[Tadashi70]

haha the old breakfast ball eh? It's a beauty if there is no warmup, but I've recently shy'ed away from it.. Not really sure why.

This is interesting to me that you shy away from the breakfast ball but are for making divots a free drop. It's puzzling to me, not in a bad way but interesting to say the least.

 

[MWard]

I think what irks me more is playing out of a divot that's not even sand filled. At least in a sand filled divot, it's a more level lie than having to play out of one that's just X amount below the ball. The latter are near impossible. The former are at least somewhat playable.

 

[TheHeez]

In a drought prone state, I find that many of my divots turn to dust and I replace when I can.

As someone who carries 90% of the time, what do you guys suggest when it comes to filling divots? Should I swipe a dispenser from a cart? Carry a baggy of sand/seed? I'm honestly curious how I can do better for my track.

 

[tequila4kapp]

I'm in the camp that says "Whoever said golf was going to be fair?" Play it as it lies.