how much of it is the head/ how much is the shaft?

[zooropa]

Thought it might get more response here. Before i reshaft the sldr mini do we think a shaft i really like will improve it?

 

[baldguy]

Thought it might get more response here. Before i reshaft the sldr mini do we think a shaft i really like will improve it?

I think a shaft that really fits your swing will improve it. liking it or not... well taht really depends on what makes you like a shaft, I suppose

 

[Jman]

Head is always the majority of the performance baseline, the vast majority. Shafts can have an effect on launch and spin, but it is MUCH MUCH MUCH than most of us believe it is. The traits of the head are the key, and as with anything some heads fit some golfers, some don't.

 

[Brianbigoats]

I think the shaft has an effect on really dialing in a head to fit you but you can not turn a high launch head into a low launch by putting a low launch shaft

 

[SaffaClint]

I think as golfers we are always looking for something better and as such get it in our heads that something isn't right for us when it doesn't work as advertised. Kinda along the lines of placebo vs real medicine sometimes.

 

[baldguy]

Head is always the majority of the performance baseline, the vast majority. Shafts can have an effect on launch and spin, but it is MUCH MUCH MUCH than most of us believe it is. The traits of the head are the key, and as with anything some heads fit some golfers, some don't.

I think that depends on your definition of performance. If you're looking for consistency, the shaft plays a larger role in how well you make contact than any other part of the club. This is something I didn't quite believe until it was proven during my recent full bag fitting. The fitter I worked with, who came from the R&D department at Adams (and many of us met in March), explained it all to me in very technical terms that made sense but I couldn't recite... then seeing the numbers on the trackman screen solidified it for me. The shaft was far more important to improving my game than the head. So much so that I'm probably keeping the heads I already have and installing new shafts. The only reason I'd change the heads is to move to something with less offset since I'd like to take some of the draw out of my normal ball flight.

now, if your definition of performance is distance and forgiveness, then the head is the primary piece to work with. The shaft can optimize your consistency, but the head needs to fit that consistency. The shaft may also be generating more or less launch and spin than what you want, and the head can compensate. Of course, swing is more important than gear in nearly all cases. This is how it was explained to me, anyway. Given the credentials, experience, and unbelievable level of knowledge of the guy doing the explaining, I believe it. I can certainly see the results on the course. I always hit my 6 iron well, but the more I use the two 6 irons we built to test in the real world, the more I believe. Same speedblade head(s), but much better flights on a much more consistent basis with these two properly fit shafts.

 

[JB]

I think that depends on your definition of performance. If you're looking for consistency, the shaft plays a larger role in how well you make contact than any other part of the club.

The human body plays a much larger roll than any part of the club in terms of consistency.

If the shaft altered it as much as being said, a golfer would not be able to pick up x flex and then again ladies flex and hit then both on a consistent basis.

 

[AG47]

The human body plays a much larger roll than any part of the club in terms of consistency.

If the shaft altered it as much as being said, a golfer would not be able to pick up x flex and then again ladies flex and hit then both on a consistent basis.

That is spot on. A consistant swing produces consistant results. The proper shaft just fine tunes that. Though I would not recommend a person who has the swing speed to load an X flex shaft to use a ladies flex shaft. My SS is just shy if 120mph and I have had 2 ladies flex shafts snap when I loaded them on the start of my down swing.

 

[Buckjob]

Head is always the majority of the performance baseline, the vast majority. Shafts can have an effect on launch and spin, but it is MUCH MUCH MUCH than most of us believe it is. The traits of the head are the key, and as with anything some heads fit some golfers, some don't.

jmans smart.... head is always more important but there are shafts that i can't hit and don't fit my swing really well But if the head doesn't work well for you then a shaft isn't usually gonna fix the problem.

 

[MrTitleist]

(That's what she said....Anyone? Anyone?)

 

[Vegan702]

I think that depends on your definition of performance. If you're looking for consistency, the shaft plays a larger role in how well you make contact than any other part of the club. This is something I didn't quite believe until it was proven during my recent full bag fitting. The fitter I worked with, who came from the R&D department at Adams (and many of us met in March), explained it all to me in very technical terms that made sense but I couldn't recite... then seeing the numbers on the trackman screen solidified it for me. The shaft was far more important to improving my game than the head. So much so that I'm probably keeping the heads I already have and installing new shafts. The only reason I'd change the heads is to move to something with less offset since I'd like to take some of the draw out of my normal ball flight.

now, if your definition of performance is distance and forgiveness, then the head is the primary piece to work with. The shaft can optimize your consistency, but the head needs to fit that consistency. The shaft may also be generating more or less launch and spin than what you want, and the head can compensate. Of course, swing is more important than gear in nearly all cases. This is how it was explained to me, anyway. Given the credentials, experience, and unbelievable level of knowledge of the guy doing the explaining, I believe it. I can certainly see the results on the course. I always hit my 6 iron well, but the more I use the two 6 irons we built to test in the real world, the more I believe. Same speedblade head(s), but much better flights on a much more consistent basis with these two properly fit shafts.

The human body plays a much larger roll than any part of the club in terms of consistency.

If the shaft altered it as much as being said, a golfer would not be able to pick up x flex and then again ladies flex and hit then both on a consistent basis.

Unless I don't read and comprehend well, pretty sure JB was just expanding on what you were saying. If you can't put a consistent swing on something doesn't matter which head and shaft you have.

 

[Mystery Meat]

I think a shaft that really fits your swing will improve it. liking it or not... well taht really depends on what makes you like a shaft, I suppose

I agree with this .

 

[Tadashi70]

I have always been under the impression that the right shaft can make any head work. Am I off base here?

 

[Hawk]

I have always been under the impression that the right shaft can make any head work. Am I off base here?

Not for me at all. There are driver heads especially that I just can't use. Anything really low spin, regardless of the shaft. Good example was the Cleveland Classic XL. Even with the softest tipped shaft I was very low spin, and my misses were essentially diving knuckleballs.

 

[JB]

Unless I don't read and comprehend well, pretty sure JB was just expanding on what you were saying. If you can't put a consistent swing on something doesn't matter which head and shaft you have.

Thank you for that. Some people are looking for fire, when there is not even smoke, but its par for the course.

I have always been under the impression that the right shaft can make any head work. Am I off base here?

Yes...

 

[Jman]

I think that depends on your definition of performance. If you're looking for consistency, the shaft plays a larger role in how well you make contact than any other part of the club. This is something I didn't quite believe until it was proven during my recent full bag fitting. The fitter I worked with, who came from the R&D department at Adams (and many of us met in March), explained it all to me in very technical terms that made sense but I couldn't recite... then seeing the numbers on the trackman screen solidified it for me. The shaft was far more important to improving my game than the head. So much so that I'm probably keeping the heads I already have and installing new shafts. The only reason I'd change the heads is to move to something with less offset since I'd like to take some of the draw out of my normal ball flight.

now, if your definition of performance is distance and forgiveness, then the head is the primary piece to work with. The shaft can optimize your consistency, but the head needs to fit that consistency. The shaft may also be generating more or less launch and spin than what you want, and the head can compensate. Of course, swing is more important than gear in nearly all cases. This is how it was explained to me, anyway. Given the credentials, experience, and unbelievable level of knowledge of the guy doing the explaining, I believe it. I can certainly see the results on the course. I always hit my 6 iron well, but the more I use the two 6 irons we built to test in the real world, the more I believe. Same speedblade head(s), but much better flights on a much more consistent basis with these two properly fit shafts.

The head has always been the key, the traits within them vary wildy, for instance take that Bio+ that you love and then an AMP Cell, plug the same shafts in each and you will see wildly different numbers because one head is low-mid/low and the other is high/high. The amount that the shaft actually alters the club is NOT as much as some like to believe it is, YES it is important to have a properly fitting shaft BUT the human body CAN and WILL adapt to the shaft being played MUCH more so than you can adapt the to an ill fitting head.

All of these things have been confirmed time and again by some of the best in the industry, we don't make this stuff up. The fact of the matter is we as human beings have the innate ability to GREATLY over-analyze certain aspects of things.

 

[baldguy]

Unless I don't read and comprehend well, pretty sure JB was just expanding on what you were saying. If you can't put a consistent swing on something doesn't matter which head and shaft you have.

"If the shaft altered it as much as being said, a golfer would not be able to pick up x flex and then again ladies flex and hit then both on a consistent basis." sure looks like he's saying that I was either lying about my experience or just couldn't read the data. If I jumped to a conclusion, then I apologize. I'm just so used to getting beaten on in so many posts that it seemed like more of the same.

 

[Wicked Cool Bearded Man]

The head has always been the key, the traits within them vary wildy, for instance take that Bio+ that you love and then an AMP Cell, plug the same shafts in each and you will see wildly different numbers because one head is low-mid/low and the other is high/high. The amount that the shaft actually alters the club is NOT as much as some like to believe it is, YES it is important to have a properly fitting shaft BUT the human body CAN and WILL adapt to the shaft being played MUCH more so than you can adapt the to an ill fitting head.

All of these things have been confirmed time and again by some of the best in the industry, we don't make this stuff up. The fact of the matter is we as human beings have the innate ability to GREATLY over-analyze certain aspects of things.

I know I'm guilty of this haha

 

[Canadan]

I had an interesting conversation about this during the weekend, talking about what's appropriate for my swing with a driver (spin generator 2000).

I think it's time to focus on an appropriate head and seek a shaft that plays well into it -- But I think it definitely starts with the head.

 

[Tadashi70]

I had an interesting conversation about this during the weekend, talking about what's appropriate for my swing with a driver (spin generator 2000).

I think it's time to focus on an appropriate head and seek a shaft that plays well into it -- But I think it definitely starts with the head.

Now you guys got me thinking. How do you find a head that is perfect for you. The vast majority may never find that combination, I know I'd liked too.

 

[Buckjob]

Not for me at all. There are driver heads especially that I just can't use. Anything really low spin, regardless of the shaft. Good example was the Cleveland Classic XL. Even with the softest tipped shaft I was very low spin, and my misses were essentially diving knuckleballs.

i'm the same way hawk when i tried the cleveland classic that JB had in AC a few years ago i thought it was broken couldn't hit it for anything and i hit Bretts with a completely different shaft same thing couldn't hit it to save my life. i always find a head and then find a shaft that compliments it.

 

[blugold]

I don't know how much I have to add to this conversation. I am not a shaft guru by any stretch. I do know that some may think that I have a bias against stock shafts but that is not the case.

The only thing I really think, the head is very important but an appropriate shaft pairing will turn a good head into a game-changing club.

 

[baldguy]

The head has always been the key, the traits within them vary wildy, for instance take that Bio+ that you love and then an AMP Cell, plug the same shafts in each and you will see wildly different numbers because one head is low-mid/low and the other is high/high. The amount that the shaft actually alters the club is NOT as much as some like to believe it is, YES it is important to have a properly fitting shaft BUT the human body CAN and WILL adapt to the shaft being played MUCH more so than you can adapt the to an ill fitting head.

All of these things have been confirmed time and again by some of the best in the industry, we don't make this stuff up. The fact of the matter is we as human beings have the innate ability to GREATLY over-analyze certain aspects of things.

right, and I'm not making this stuff up either. my post was based on my own experience spending hours trying different shafts and different heads under the watchful eye of a professional who has spent 20 years designing, building, and fitting clubs. Talking with him about what makes a good fit. He told me he focuses on the shaft first, then the head. yes, the head will have a lot more to do with things like spin and launch, but my point was that there is more to performance than spin and launch. I had been gaming my stock speedblades for about 6 months and was getting pretty consistent numbers with that setup. acceptable, sure, but not optimal. I had adapted as much as I could but I was still only topping out at about a 1.35-1.38 smash factor with the clubs I was used to. once we found the right shafts for those heads, the numbers jumped from "decent" to "outstanding". I walked away with a build sheet that had the same flex, length, and grip that I was gaming, but a drastically different weight and profile. the performance I got was markedly better and the only thing that changed was the shaft. changing the heads had no effect on how well I found the center of the face. changing the shafts did. once I started finding the center of the face with that much regularity, he tried at least 8 different heads of vastly different types to find one that fit better. The end result was that there was no clear winner. the heads differ greatly on off-center hits but hitting the sweet spot evens out that curve significantly.

 

[Buckjob]

right, and I'm not making this stuff up either. my post was based on my own experience spending hours trying different shafts and different heads under the watchful eye of a professional who has spent 20 years designing, building, and fitting clubs. Talking with him about what makes a good fit. He told me he focuses on the shaft first, then the head. yes, the head will have a lot more to do with things like spin and launch, but my point was that there is more to performance than spin and launch. I had been gaming my stock speedblades for about 6 months and was getting pretty consistent numbers with that setup. acceptable, sure, but not optimal. I had adapted as much as I could but I was still only topping out at about a 1.35-1.38 smash factor with the clubs I was used to. once we found the right shafts for those heads, the numbers jumped from "decent" to "outstanding". I walked away with a build sheet that had the same flex, length, and grip that I was gaming, but a drastically different weight and profile. the performance I got was markedly better and the only thing that changed was the shaft. changing the heads had no effect on how well I found the center of the face. changing the shafts did. once I started finding the center of the face with that much regularity, he tried at least 8 different heads of vastly different types to find one that fit better. The end result was that there was no clear winner. the heads differ greatly on off-center hits but hitting the sweet spot evens out that curve significantly.

this is the exact opposite of every fitting i've ever had in my entire life always find a head that gets you close then find a shaft to compliment that head plus theres more shaft options that head options so that also helps find something that works for you...... i also don't believe changing a shaft will make someone hit the sweet spot of a club head. if you can't hit the sweet spot you need a more forgiving club head not another shaft. and barely any amateurs hit the sweet spot consistently anyway. lie and loft and length i would think have more help than changing a shaft with hitting the sweet spot.

 

[baldguy]

this is the exact opposite of every fitting i've ever had in my entire life always find a head that gets you close then find a shaft to compliment that head plus theres more shaft options that head options so that also helps find something that works for you...... i also don't believe changing a shaft will make someone hit the sweet spot of a club head. if you can't hit the sweet spot you need a more forgiving club head not another shaft. and barely any amateurs hit the sweet spot consistently anyway. lie and loft and length i would think have more help than changing a shaft with hitting the sweet spot.

believe it or not, it happened. and not just for me. the fitter I worked with said that was a normal thing. some people need lighter shafts, some heavier. some more torque, some less. the fitter is the expert, not me... I'm just happy with the results he got and that is how he got them.