Bubba Watson

[Redowl]

Everybody in this world is judged for their actions on a daily basis, it just depends on how wide the spectrum is. I am judged by the people I interact with daily at my job.. and if I throw a tantrum or make the wrong move, it'll probably cost me my job.
This isn't about any single action.. Show me a great athlete and I am sure someone can show me where they have faltered (see:Rory's club tosses)... It's about consistency, and Bubba is consistently on the wrong end of the conversation about being a 'PROFESSIONAL' golfer.

As someone who neither likes, nor dislikes Bubb, I respectfully disagree.

At a certain point, people aren't judging Bubba (or others in a similar situation) on a daily basis. They are using pre-determined opinions and experiences to dog-pile at their leisure. Go back to the Friday Masters thread and read all the comments with people calling Bubba names, wishing ill of his performance, giving him unflattering nicknames, etc. I watched quite carefully and I did not see Bubba blame the gallery, his caddie or anyone else for his poor performance. I saw a look of disgust on his face quiet frequently as he played poorly and kept adding shots to his card. BUT, I saw this same look of disgust on many great golfers' faces on Friday - they all looked like Augusta was peeing in their corn flakes that day. Yet, if you read that thread without being able to watch any golf, you'd get the impression that Bubba was yelling at anyone and everyone within earshot.

This same thing happened when it was 'cool' to rip on Tiger.

 

[Canadan]

As someone who neither likes, nor dislikes Bubb, I respectfully disagree.

At a certain point, people aren't judging Bubba (or others in a similar situation) on a daily basis. They are using pre-determined opinions and experiences to dog-pile at their leisure. Go back to the Friday Masters thread and read all the comments with people calling Bubba names, wishing ill of his performance, giving him unflattering nicknames, etc. I watched quite carefully and I did not see Bubba blame the gallery, his caddie or anyone else for his poor performance. I saw a look of disgust on his face quiet frequently as he played poorly and kept adding shots to his card. BUT, I saw this same look of disgust on many great golfers' faces on Friday - they all looked like Augusta was peeing in their corn flakes that day. Yet, if you read that thread without being able to watch any golf, you'd get the impression that Bubba was yelling at anyone and everyone within earshot.

This same thing happened when it was 'cool' to rip on Tiger.

I think you're looking far too closely... Or at least my reasoning reflects that.

When i say consistently, I mean multiple times throughout a season... That become more and more visible as they occur -- Which provides bubba with a reputation that is not flattering at all, and then people decide they don't care for him from that point.

I personally tried to give Bubba the benefit of the doubt many times because i loved watching his creativity.. But the nonsense just got boring. Now it's fun to root against him.

 

[Redowl]

I think you're looking far too closely... Or at least my reasoning reflects that.

When i say consistently, I mean multiple times throughout a season... That become more and more visible as they occur -- Which provides bubba with a reputation that is not flattering at all, and then people decide they don't care for him from that point.

I personally tried to give Bubba the benefit of the doubt many times because i loved watching his creativity.. But the nonsense just got boring. Now it's fun to root against him.

I understand what you're saying and I partially agree. If judged as a whole, perhaps Bubba's body of work is less good and more bad. I would be lying if I had proof, knowledge or even opinion of that. I am simply pointing out that Bubba's daily actions aren't as bad as some would have us believe. As someone said, sports always need a villain - and Bubba seems to be the evil man of the hour.

But just keep in mind that even when the bad guy isn't doing bad things, we still want to remind people they're bad. Perhaps we want to label Bubba as the bad guy because it makes 'our guy' look better in our own mind.

 

[JB]

I understand what you're saying and I partially agree. If judged as a whole, perhaps Bubba's body of work is less good and more bad. I would be lying if I had proof, knowledge or even opinion of that. I am simply pointing out that Bubba's daily actions aren't as bad as some would have us believe. As someone said, sports always need a villain - and Bubba seems to be the evil man of the hour.

But just keep in mind that even when the bad guy isn't doing bad things, we still want to remind people they're bad. Perhaps we want to label Bubba as the bad guy because it makes 'our guy' look better in our own mind.

Let me ask you a question. Are you a NFL fan? Packers fan? Lets assume you are for this question.
What were your thoughts on Suh when he played for the Lions?

 

[Redowl]

Let me ask you a question. Are you a NFL fan? Packers fan? Lets assume you are for this question.
What were your thoughts on Suh when he played for the Lions?

NFL fan - yes.
Packers fan - yes.

(I will admit, I haven't followed Suh since he left the Lions - so I can only respond with my impressions when he was in Detroit)
I think Suh pushed the envelope too far on occasion, took some cheap shots and was a 'dirty' player.

 

[JB]

NFL fan - yes.
Packers fan - yes.

(I will admit, I haven't followed Suh since he left the Lions - so I can only respond with my impressions when he was in Detroit)
I think Suh pushed the envelope too far on occasion, took some cheap shots and was a 'dirty' player.

And yet on 99% of the plays, Suh did nothing wrong. But he is now and will forever be labeled as a dirty player (rightfully so to some). Because of HIS actions. Despite the actions being different, the context doesn't change. The only difference is what one fans tolerance is to those actions.

 

[Redowl]

And yet on 99% of the plays, Suh did nothing wrong. But he is now and will forever be labeled as a dirty player (rightfully so to some). Because of HIS actions. Despite the actions being different, the context doesn't change. The only difference is what one fans tolerance is to those actions.

BUT - I didn't sit in front of my TV constantly accusing him of penalties when he wasn't committing an infraction. I didn't sit around taking his name in vain when the action was elsewhere on the field. When Suh 'accidentally' stepped on Rodgers' ankle I considered it a dirty-deed but I didn't give it another thought when our defense was on the field. Disliking Suh would gain me no advantage - it wouldn't elevate Rodgers in my mind. It wouldn't make my team better or worse. Suh isn't a villain in my mind. I'd rather ride in a car with him vs. a bear. (mammal, not 'da Bears...).

 

[JB]

BUT - I didn't sit in front of my TV constantly accusing him of penalties when he wasn't committing an infraction. I didn't sit around taking his name in vain when the action was elsewhere on the field. When Suh 'accidentally' stepped on Rodgers' ankle I considered it a dirty-deed but I didn't give it another thought when our defense was on the field. Disliking Suh would gain me no advantage - it wouldn't elevate Rodgers in my mind. It wouldn't make my team better or worse. Suh isn't a villain in my mind. I'd rather ride in a car with him vs. a bear. (mammal, not 'da Bears...).

Then you are the one saint of a Packers fan, because every week in the NFL thread and ALL over social media, he is called "Dirty Suh" and other such names no matter what he does. Just talking about him, he is referred to the scum bag dirty player all over the net. There is no difference, despite what people want to believe.

FWIW, I don't recall anybody accusing Watson of penalties either. They were talking about his character, just as people do Suh and other athletes.

Sports fans have a threshold and its different for everybody. I just personally believe as a whole, we set the bar pretty low.

 

[blugold]

BUT - I didn't sit in front of my TV constantly accusing him of penalties when he wasn't committing an infraction. I didn't sit around taking his name in vain when the action was elsewhere on the field. When Suh 'accidentally' stepped on Rodgers' ankle I considered it a dirty-deed but I didn't give it another thought when our defense was on the field. Disliking Suh would gain me no advantage - it wouldn't elevate Rodgers in my mind. It wouldn't make my team better or worse. Suh isn't a villain in my mind. I'd rather ride in a car with him vs. a bear. (mammal, not 'da Bears...).

I'm a Packers fan. I never saw Suh *NOT* commit a penalty, objectively speaking.

I am very vocal about Bubba being a putz. I am a fan of his golf and I get really frustrated that he let's his personality overshadow his talents.

 

[Redowl]

Then you are the one saint of a Packers fan, because every week in the NFL thread and ALL over social media, he is called "Dirty Suh" and other such names no matter what he does. Just talking about him, he is referred to the scum bag dirty player all over the net. There is no difference, despite what people want to believe.

FWIW, I don't recall anybody accusing Watson of penalties either. They were talking about his character, just as people do Suh and other athletes.

Sports fans have a threshold and its different for everybody. I just personally believe as a whole, we set the bar pretty low.

A saint I am not. I have lost my temper many-a-time while watching the Packers and their opponents. But you are correct, I never called him Dirty-Suh or a scumbag. I generally find it is wise to look at what social media is saying, take a deep breath and then do the opposite.

As far as what people on THP were saying about B. Watson: There were people saying "I bet he blamed his caddie". "Apparently there was water on the ball prior to his drive" "#prayfortedscott" "Bubba is whining like always" "look at the look on Bubba's face - what a baby" "Bubba's looking like a douche again" etc.

And I realize those statements harken back to past transgressions and I don't defend any action in his past. I am simply pointing out that THP members were criticizing and condemning B. Watson for the same thing Mickleson, Day, Spieth, Garcia, etc were doing over the weekend.

 

[JB]

A saint I am not. I have lost my temper many-a-time while watching the Packers and their opponents. But you are correct, I never called him Dirty-Suh or a scumbag. I generally find it is wise to look at what social media is saying, take a deep breath and then do the opposite.

As far as what people on THP were saying about B. Watson: There were people saying "I bet he blamed his caddie". "Apparently there was water on the ball prior to his drive" "#prayfortedscott" "Bubba is whining like always" "look at the look on Bubba's face - what a baby" "Bubba's looking like a douche again" etc.

And I realize those statements harken back to past transgressions and I don't defend any action in his past. I am simply pointing out that THP members were criticizing and condemning B. Watson for the same thing Mickleson, Day, Spieth, Garcia, etc were doing over the weekend.

You reap what you sow in life. Just as the exact example I used, that must have not been explained well on my end, because its identical.

 

[Redowl]

I'm a Packers fan. I never saw Suh *NOT* commit a penalty, objectively speaking.

I am very vocal about Bubba being a putz. I am a fan of his golf and I get really frustrated that he let's his personality overshadow his talents.

I certainly won't argue with a true Packers fan

Is Bubba a putz? Perhaps!

I am just pointing out that people assume his 'personality' is guilty until proven innocent.

 

[blugold]

I certainly won't argue with a true Packers fan

Is Bubba a putz? Perhaps!

I am just pointing out that people assume his 'personality' is guilty until proven innocent.

The Court of Law and the Court of Public Opinion are two vastly different arenas.

Benefit of doubt expires when predictable tendencies become established.

 

[Redowl]

JB,
I love this forum and your posts - I hope you don't think I'm being thin-skinned, whiny or dense. THP is a great place for discourse.

But I guess the part I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what did Bubba sow this weekend that he needed to reap? Did he play crappy golf? Yup. Did he yell at his caddie or blame the conditions? Nope.

I'm truly not being argumentative - I just think some folks around here are less-than-impartial when it comes to their assessment of the guy.

 

[JB]

JB,
I love this forum and your posts - I hope you don't think I'm being thin-skinned, whiny or dense. THP is a great place for discourse.

But I guess the part I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what did Bubba sow this weekend that he needed to reap? Did he play crappy golf? Yup. Did he yell at his caddie or blame the conditions? Nope.

I'm truly not being argumentative - I just think some folks around here are less-than-impartial when it comes to their assessment of the guy.

I get it brother, its just conversation.
Sadly life is not a weekend, otherwise I would party harder, if someone acts like an ass (using an example, not related to Watson) once every 6 weeks for several years, it becomes a trend and when they are close, or something pops up that isn't that bad, their bed is made. "You reap what you sow".

 

[Redowl]

The Court of Law and the Court of Public Opinion are two vastly different arenas.

Benefit of doubt expires when predictable tendencies become established.

'Predictable tendencies' are what's wrong with social media and group-think. Similar language is used when diagnosing mob-mentality. If you act like a jerk - you're a jerk. If you don't act like a jerk you might not be one, or you might be one in hiding.

I will judge on action and forgive when possible.

 

[Redowl]

I get it brother, its just conversation.
Sadly life is not a weekend, otherwise I would party harder, if someone acts like an ass (using an example, not related to Watson) once every 6 weeks for several years, it becomes a trend and when they are close, or something pops up that isn't that bad, their bed is made. "You reap what you sow".

This I agree wholeheartedly with. :thumb:

 

[blugold]

JB,
I love this forum and your posts - I hope you don't think I'm being thin-skinned, whiny or dense. THP is a great place for discourse.

But I guess the part I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is what did Bubba sow this weekend that he needed to reap? Did he play crappy golf? Yup. Did he yell at his caddie or blame the conditions? Nope.

I'm truly not being argumentative - I just think some folks around here are less-than-impartial when it comes to their assessment of the guy.

Well, to be fair, he didn't yell at his caddy but he did denigrate a patron of Augusta National.

That's the sort of collateral damage his "quirks" cause. Those are the sort of things that make some people call him a putz.

 

[Wake]

I have a question to caleric and wake (not singling anybody out, just know you two). What are your thoughts on Johnny Manziel? What about Terrell Owens? Allen Iverson?

I Think Manziel is a POS who has repeatedly hit women, along with alot of other terrible behavior, and frankly see no comparison. I can somewhat see where you are going with Owens, a great player with mental issues that impacted those around him. Of course his issues impacted his team, which Bubba does not have. I honestly don't know enough about Iverson to compare. I know he had legal issues before his career, and is now broke, and didn't care for practice, but thats about all that I know.

I see Bubba and see a great golfer who probably was never cut out for life in the limelight. As far as I know, he has never been accused of any major law violations, of cheating in golf, of not paying his debts, or really any other major violation. He gets angry at his caddie and vents in an inappropriate way, and he is unaccommodating of fans, he is upfront of his faith (despite his flaws),and he can showoff his stuff too much are pretty much the only complaints. They are all valid complaints and it's perfectly fine that others don't like him. None of those keep me from enjoying watching him golf. He isn't my favorite golfer, if I had a son I wouldn't point towards him as a role model, he is just a guy I enjoy watching, along with alot of other golfers. I have a slightly different perspective having talking to several who watched him grow up and have been around him since. THey have all basically said he's a weird, but good dude. I'm not saying his behavior is OK, but it just doesn't keep me from thinking he is incredibly fun to watch on the course, and when he is on he is more fun than anyone else in my eyes.

I think some go overboard in their hatred at times. He catches flak for things that others wouldn't because of his past, and like I said it gets old seeing some bash him at every opportunity. But that's their prerogative.

 

[mikeg_74]

Bubba Watson

Bubba just strikes me as someone who's insecurities constantly have him finding ways to make himself look more important than he is

 

[JB]

I Think Manziel is a POS who has repeatedly hit women, along with alot of other terrible behavior, and frankly see no comparison. I can somewhat see where you are going with Owens, a great player with mental issues that impacted those around him. Of course his issues impacted his team, which Bubba does not have. I honestly don't know enough about Iverson to compare. I know he had legal issues before his career, and is now broke, and didn't care for practice, but thats about all that I know.

I see Bubba and see a great golfer who probably was never cut out for life in the limelight. As far as I know, he has never been accused of any major law violations, of cheating in golf, of not paying his debts, or really any other major violation. He gets angry at his caddie and vents in an inappropriate way, and he is unaccommodating of fans, he is upfront of his faith (despite his flaws),and he can showoff his stuff too much are pretty much the only complaints. They are all valid complaints and it's perfectly fine that others don't like him. None of those keep me from enjoying watching him golf. He isn't my favorite golfer, if I had a son I wouldn't point towards him as a role model, he is just a guy I enjoy watching, along with alot of other golfers. I have a slightly different perspective having talking to several who watched him grow up and have been around him since. THey have all basically said he's a weird, but good dude. I'm not saying his behavior is OK, but it just doesn't keep me from thinking he is incredibly fun to watch on the course, and when he is on he is more fun than anyone else in my eyes.

I think some go overboard in their hatred at times. He catches flak for things that others wouldn't because of his past, and like I said it gets old seeing some bash him at every opportunity. But that's their prerogative.

I wasn't comparing any of their actions. I was comparing a threshold that people have for players that continually have fans calling them out right or wrong due to past transgressions. A perfect example here is Owens, if one wants to go with actions. A player that blamed those around him, but not really, because he had some disorders. A player that each season said he was working on change, but it never happened.

People will have different thresholds for who they root for, but the argument that all that matters is what happens on the court/course/field has no merit, because as soon as that threshold is met for an individual fan, they do a 180.

 

[Redowl]

Well, to be fair, he didn't yell at his caddy but he did denigrate a patron of Augusta National.

That's the sort of collateral damage his "quirks" cause. Those are the sort of things that make some people call him a putz.

This is where I will put on my Not a Bubba Watson Defender hat and place another cap on my head:

Fans-can-be-A-holes.

This story was under-sourced.

The news article was about Jeff Knox and wasn't a first-hand encounter. There may be information lacking, as the story says (B. Watson) "...had some fun with the spectators, too"

If this was Rory, Jordan, Ernie, Phil or someone else we would not interpret it the same way. People want to hate the villain. People will interpret the grey areas to make them black. Show me proof and I will consent. Show me half the puzzle? I say C'mon...

 

[JB]

This is where I will put on my Not a Bubba Watson Defender hat and place another cap on my head:

Fans-can-be-A-holes.

This story was under-sourced.

The news article was about Jeff Knox and wasn't a first-hand encounter. There may be information lacking, as the story says (B. Watson) "...had some fun with the spectators, too"

If this was Rory, Jordan, Ernie, Phil or someone else we would not interpret it the same way. People want to hate the villain. People will interpret the grey areas to make them black. Show me proof and I will consent. Show me half the puzzle? I say C'mon...

So can players...
And you're right, it would have been different...because of past transgressions.
If I walk into a locker room full of QBs from the NFL and there is a dog fighting ring set up, most don't think Aaron Rodgers is behind it, they would think Mike Vick is. Right or wrong, that goes back to you reap what you sow.

 

[Wake]

I wasn't comparing any of their actions. I was comparing a threshold that people have for players that continually have fans calling them out right or wrong due to past transgressions. A perfect example here is Owens, if one wants to go with actions. A player that blamed those around him, but not really, because he had some disorders. A player that each season said he was working on change, but it never happened.

People will have different thresholds for who they root for, but the argument that all that matters is what happens on the court/course/field has no merit, because as soon as that threshold is met for an individual fan, they do a 180.

I get what you are saying, and I've never made any argument that other's shouldn't dislike him. It's just watching him get called out for every little thing and comments like "nice shot douche" get a little old, that's the only thing I've said.

It's probably how Jameis fans felt in 2014.

 

[Redowl]

So can players...
And you're right, it would have been different...because of past transgressions.
If I walk into a locker room full of QBs from the NFL and there is a dog fighting ring set up, most don't think Aaron Rodgers is behind it, they would think Mike Vick is. Right or wrong, that goes back to you reap what you sow.

I agree. If we had a mat of conclusions and we jumped to them - we'd all likely end up in the same place. But when did we as a society decide that was right and we'd just 'go with it'?
If we assumed Vick did, we'd circulate a petition to cancel his advertisers, promoters and benefactors. If it turned out Vick didn't do it and Rodgers did, we would be shocked at first but then we would bury him (Rodgers) with our anger and malice. Would we apologize to Vick for our assumptions or would we just cast him aside and say "well, your past transgressions pointed us towards you so this current crime and the repercussions of our assumptions are still your fault".

The world of keyboard cowboys is getting old. People should get blamed for what they do - not what we imagine.