Mark_UK
Legal Alien
Yep, after all, he was married to one.
2015 Solheim Cup
Yep, after all, he was married to one.
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
Yep......
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
Can't be done. Once the ball was picked up the hole is done, over with.
We all see things thru different views, and that is OK, but I see where Lee screwed up yes, but the opposing players had/were walking off the green, and that was the biggest mistake/crime of it all. Then you have SP, well away from the hole, come back and say wait a minute here......Why was Hull crying? Because she knew it was wrong.
Incorrect. Per decisions of golf the ball can be replaced nearest to its original spot under certain specific situations.
Evok
Don't worry, Be happy!
Yeah I thought they said something about the rules official or coaches or something could of allowed her to replace the ball. Can't remember what they said but I thought it was something like that.
jitzy
New member
Arnold did it with Jack in a U.S. Open playoff, he was conceding the hole but had to put the ball back after he picked it up. Now that was probably 30 something years ago and I'm sure rules change also it's a different tour. Either way SP looked like a POS in this and I'm glad she apologized but I think she was forced into it.
Galen Marek
Well-known member
SP was definitely being an a-hole but the apology feels sincere to me so I say forgive and forget. Plus she pretty much spurred on the Americans to an otherwise non-existent victory so thanks for that Suzann.
However one thing is still bothering me. Now I consider myself an all-American male cut from the same cloth as John Wayne, Steve McQueen and Charles Bronson (nobody else has that opinion of me but let's not talk about that) but that "Class, style, USA" was just embarrassing and painful to watch. Who the hell came up with that?
However one thing is still bothering me. Now I consider myself an all-American male cut from the same cloth as John Wayne, Steve McQueen and Charles Bronson (nobody else has that opinion of me but let's not talk about that) but that "Class, style, USA" was just embarrassing and painful to watch. Who the hell came up with that?
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
I have not looked up a ruling, but I just asked our 50+ year PGA Pro his opinion, and he was pretty clear that once the ball was picked up, the hole is over and done with, at least that was his feeling in a match play situation like this, UNLESS......the ball or ball marker was still there. Looking at the video, I would say there was no marker as the ball was down and she picked it up, but I'm never afraid to admit that I'm no rules expert.
My impression was that this was what Annika wanted in the discussion that followed and SP would have nothing of it, which was I think when Hull was shown crying.
My impression was that this was what Annika wanted in the discussion that followed and SP would have nothing of it, which was I think when Hull was shown crying.
decision / rule 2 4/3
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
Good find! Good to learn. I also sent this question to the PGA of America.
2-4/3 Player Lifts Ball in Mistaken Belief That Next Stroke Conceded
Q.In a match between A and B, B made a statement which A interpreted to mean that his (A's) next stroke was conceded. Accordingly, A lifted his ball. B then said that he had not conceded A's next stroke. What is the ruling?
A.If B's statement could reasonably have led A to think his next stroke had been conceded, in equity (Rule 1-4), A should replace his ball as near as possible to where it lay, without penalty.
Otherwise, A would incur a penalty stroke for lifting his ball without marking its position - Rule 20-1 - and he must replace his ball as near as possible to where it lay.
The only hole in this is that "no one made a verbal statement".
Yep. If an opponent says something that could reasonably be interpreted to mean a stroke was conceded, but then he says it wasn't, the player could place the ball back where it was.
Seems like walking away from the green could be reasonably inferred to mean a stroke has been conceded.
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
There lies the issue. No spoken words, and players walking off the green, only to return after the fact.
I guess at the end of the day, it sucked, and maybe I should send SP a thank you card for giving the USA the inspiration to just lumber on and win.
JRod
Well-known member
AshMan
Passionate Golfer
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Walking away was indeed in my eyes a statement of it had been conceded. The moment the ball stopped, they started walking to the next hole. That to me was making a statement, ether verbal or physical it was easy to have anyone assume it was conceded.
I think that SP should have not acts the way she did. I felt it was very petty how she responded. I think everyone else thought that the hole was conceded.
What I suspect is that SP thought they had lost the hole, so walked, then when she realized that Lee picked up the ball without an official concession, she used it to her advantage to say that she did not concede the hole, Which to me was very unsportman-like.
Either way, I think the US did a great job of coming back to win it. I think that regardless of what happened, the US was meant to win it.
I think that SP should have not acts the way she did. I felt it was very petty how she responded. I think everyone else thought that the hole was conceded.
What I suspect is that SP thought they had lost the hole, so walked, then when she realized that Lee picked up the ball without an official concession, she used it to her advantage to say that she did not concede the hole, Which to me was very unsportman-like.
Either way, I think the US did a great job of coming back to win it. I think that regardless of what happened, the US was meant to win it.
Silverbullet01
Tee it high, let it fly!
I guarantee one thing, she will putt everything out now.
Texasbrons
FXDF FatBobs Rule!!
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I didn't get to watch any of this and I'm catching up after the fact. It's kind of telling that over half of the pages of the Solheim thread are dedicated to this incident. So as I'm not a rules expert here's a question. Hull was obviously distraught with SP's call and strict adherence to the rule. Who made her the decision maker for the duo? Why couldn't Hull counter what SP said and just say "I'm sorry, I thought it was clear that I was conceding the putt and my partner wasn't aware."? I know they seemed to have come up with the story of discussing the concession, but nobody is buying that. Hull could just as easily declared the putt conceded, given her emotions about it. Why is SP the only voice that matters here?
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kbrownpa
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For those that missed it. Day 3 replay on The Golf Channel today at Noon
Hinchyoooo
New member
***European poster alert ***
I feel pretty sorry for SP in all of this. On the outside looking without the context of the match most (including myself) would probably have given that putt, but this was a big competition for the players and this match was all square on the 17th hole with Lee needing that putt for the half. Match play brings in a number of different tactics and making your opponent putt from 18 inches on the 17th hole of a match that is all square would be right up there with the things you'd do. Put doubt in her mind. "Why are they asking me to putt this?" Lee picking the ball up like she did took away an opportunity for Europe to potentially take a lead as there is no guarantee she would have made the putt and for that it is with her that the fault should lie.
Watching the video, it is fairly clear that Europe haven't given the putt. Hull walking away will have caused some confusion but it is not for Lee to assume that this means the putt is given until she is told. The chap in the pic below is looking over towards Pettersen and if you watch the video play out it suggests that he's wanting to confirm in the direction of SP whether it is given. I think this to be true because you can see him raise a hand as in "hang on a minute, what are you doing?" when Lee picks it up, all whilst he did not leave the green. Those to the left of him are also not walking away from the green and appear to understand that the putt isn't given. Furthermore, as soon as Lee picks it up, you can hear SP shout "Hey". She was clearly watching it and hadn't walked away.
To add to this, I have read in a few places that SP had already warned Lee on two occasions during the match about Lee assuming putts have been given and not pulled her up by the rules for it. If this incident was the third time, why should SP have let her get away with it again? This doesn't appear to have been confirmed anywhere but it would be interesting to know if this is true.
In the heat of the moment people have said various things about the incident which they might like take back and I wouldn't be surprised if Laura Davies was one of them. A lot of the criticism appears unfair and it is interesting that some of the American commentators too share that view. The criticism is about it breaking sportsmanship. Just flipping things the other way, how is it sporting that Lee picked up a putt that evidently wasn't given regardless of her confusion, taking into account that there was no guarantee she would have made it?
Nevertheless, we are where we are and it was all an unpleasant situation. With the benefit hindsight it would have been best to just have said the putt was given. However in the heat of the moment SP didn't have that hindsight and had watched her opponent pick a ball up that she had wanted to see her putt. How people can jump on her for that without being in the situation is a bit unfair, regardless of what their previous opinions of her were.
Congratulations to the USA, whether they were fired up by this incident or not the performances in the singles were deserving of the victory.
I feel pretty sorry for SP in all of this. On the outside looking without the context of the match most (including myself) would probably have given that putt, but this was a big competition for the players and this match was all square on the 17th hole with Lee needing that putt for the half. Match play brings in a number of different tactics and making your opponent putt from 18 inches on the 17th hole of a match that is all square would be right up there with the things you'd do. Put doubt in her mind. "Why are they asking me to putt this?" Lee picking the ball up like she did took away an opportunity for Europe to potentially take a lead as there is no guarantee she would have made the putt and for that it is with her that the fault should lie.
Watching the video, it is fairly clear that Europe haven't given the putt. Hull walking away will have caused some confusion but it is not for Lee to assume that this means the putt is given until she is told. The chap in the pic below is looking over towards Pettersen and if you watch the video play out it suggests that he's wanting to confirm in the direction of SP whether it is given. I think this to be true because you can see him raise a hand as in "hang on a minute, what are you doing?" when Lee picks it up, all whilst he did not leave the green. Those to the left of him are also not walking away from the green and appear to understand that the putt isn't given. Furthermore, as soon as Lee picks it up, you can hear SP shout "Hey". She was clearly watching it and hadn't walked away.
To add to this, I have read in a few places that SP had already warned Lee on two occasions during the match about Lee assuming putts have been given and not pulled her up by the rules for it. If this incident was the third time, why should SP have let her get away with it again? This doesn't appear to have been confirmed anywhere but it would be interesting to know if this is true.
In the heat of the moment people have said various things about the incident which they might like take back and I wouldn't be surprised if Laura Davies was one of them. A lot of the criticism appears unfair and it is interesting that some of the American commentators too share that view. The criticism is about it breaking sportsmanship. Just flipping things the other way, how is it sporting that Lee picked up a putt that evidently wasn't given regardless of her confusion, taking into account that there was no guarantee she would have made it?
Nevertheless, we are where we are and it was all an unpleasant situation. With the benefit hindsight it would have been best to just have said the putt was given. However in the heat of the moment SP didn't have that hindsight and had watched her opponent pick a ball up that she had wanted to see her putt. How people can jump on her for that without being in the situation is a bit unfair, regardless of what their previous opinions of her were.
Congratulations to the USA, whether they were fired up by this incident or not the performances in the singles were deserving of the victory.
Hinchyoooo
New member
Whenever I am in a pairs matchplay and I'm playing with a more senior player, I let him be the one to decide whether or not to give putts. As with everything people differ in what they consider reasonable, fair and right etc. So to make matters quicker, easier and clearer for opponents, the senior player always makes the call.
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That is a great video that puts all of the "speculation" away.
Hinchyoooo
New member
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
So what is everyone's thoughts on SP's apology on the GC?
Evok
Don't worry, Be happy!
I didn't watch it but honestly it's over, she already apologized, we won etc haha I felt like it wasn't necessary. I think it's time to move on ya know? I saw the preview and just thought ok enough already