I really think this gets back to playing the correct tees for you distance. The club I play at most enjoy playing from where they can score. The slope and course rating change so you really have to score from the more forward tees to keep your handicap down.
Distance first, accuracy later.
I really think this gets back to playing the correct tees for you distance. The club I play at most enjoy playing from where they can score. The slope and course rating change so you really have to score from the more forward tees to keep your handicap down.
baldguy
Part-Time Sasquatch
I agree, I think. When I play from longer tees, I generally score pretty close to the same as when I play from shorter tees. I use different clubs to get close, but the majority of my over-par strokes come from inside of 100 yards from the hole. If I played from the tips every round, my handicap would be lower just based on the fact that the course rating and slope are higher from back there. I have more distance than I have accuracy.
If this is the way kids and other new golfers should be taught, then doesn't that really fly in the face of the rating/slope/tee-it-forward concepts?
ryebread
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I think rating and slope are far different from tee-it-forward. Tee-it-forward is all about speeding up the game and making people enjoy their experience more. Rating and slope are about providing an equal playing field for scoring.
Wake
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I've repeatedly heard the average scratch golfer hits it 240 with the driver. That isn't short but it certainly isn't a bomber.
ryebread
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Thanks. That's my point and why this was a leading question.
The average drive length for a male is 207 yards. If the average scratch golfer is 240, then by definition they're already long players.
Think about it another way. Let's say you're the greatest up and down player from 60 yards in that there is. If you're within 60 yards, you ALWAYS get down in 2. Well, if you're on a longer par 4, because you can only hit it 180 yards, then it takes you 3 shots to get to 60. Let's say you get to the 200 yard par 3, you can't make it from the tee. There's no way you're going to score.
I'm not saying you have to be a 290 yard driver to score. I can tell you that it is nearly impossible to be a short knocker and score. A bad short game can hurt someone who is position to put up a good score, but a good short game cannot create a good score for someone who is already over par before he gets to use it.
baldguy
Part-Time Sasquatch
agreed, but if the concept is distance taught before accuracy, then the difficulty for a new players is more in accuracy than in distance. and the higher rating/slope on longer tees is *generally* equating more distance with more difficulty. right?
I know for me, if I was to be challenged to a handicapped round for money and I were allowed to choose the tee, I'd pick the back tees every time. I have a much better chance at beating my handicap from there than I do from the shortest (non-women's) tees. I'm absolutely not disagreeing with the teaching concept, I think it makes a lot of sense. I guess it just seems like if new players (which we must assume have higher handicaps) are being taught distance before accuracy, then equating more distance with more difficulty doesn't work as well.
EaglevsFalcon
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I think the general idea is that its easier to hit the brakes than step on the gas once the bar is set, especially with kids and their still developing coordination. Train the muscles to be flexible and diverse in their movements. Not easy to do that with adults though, since adults are already maxed out in their development. Kids are pretty much a blank canvas.
Wake
Active member
Then you are playing from tees that are too long plain and simple.
DawgDaddy
Old Coot
Agree, that is why I play the senior tees always when I have the choice, I just cannot get it out there far enough to score on anything over 6100 yards any more.
Addressing the OP I fully agree with teaching kids and relatively young new golfers to go for the long ball, I took golf up in my 50's and control was what I was seeking. Now at 66 I have no distance at all to speak of.
Custom Method
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I can see how trying to teach a testosterone fueled awkward and pubescent kid accuracy and hand-eye would be difficult.
Custom Method
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Also, FWIW, as an almost 18 year old, my average drive is a little over 250, and that's pretty average for the kids who aren't fighting a slice or swing issue that I play with for school.
ryebread
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That's a fair argument, and I can see how one would make that. I am not sure that I would agree, but that's the spirit of playing it forwards.
I do think in teaching, it's important to teach distance first. Get that cranked in while one is young and flexible.
I agree with Nick, especially for junior golfers. I learned how to swing hard first and figured out the accuracy part after a few years. My 8 year old daughter has a long swing with a 130* shoulder turn and I'm not going to do anything to change it for at least 3 years. It's fun to watch her outdrive the other kids her age by 30 yards.
The main reason 85% of golfers slice the ball and hit it short is they never learn how to make a full shoulder turn so I would always encourage new golfers to learn how to turn their shoulders at least 90 degrees to the ball.
The main reason 85% of golfers slice the ball and hit it short is they never learn how to make a full shoulder turn so I would always encourage new golfers to learn how to turn their shoulders at least 90 degrees to the ball.
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Wake
Active member
Having no chance to reach a par 4 in two is not good for anybody.
If I may ask. What's not to agree with? There are multiple tees for this exact reason.
Very few of them hit it over 250. Most of the single digit seniors are around 230 from the mens tees.
Fourputt
Head Rules Official
That's why courses place different tee sets. You pick what's right for your game. If every course required 290 yards off the tee in order to score, then golf would die a rapid death.
Then how do you teach the player who is picking up the game after young and flexible is long past? A good instructor can adjust his methods to suit his student.
ryebread
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I'm a player of average length. There are plenty of par 4s that I can't reach in two. Some are due to length, but others are due to placement of hazards. It's the nature of course design.
Golf is a social game. I play the whites with my playing partners, some of which are long players, some are average and some are in the middle. I don't play "back" tees which might slow other players down. My group pretty much always pushes groups in front. I'm going to tee off from the same tees as everyone else. If I don't score as well because I'm shorter, then that's my problem.
I take my medicine on when I can't reach a hole in reg. It typically happens on par 4s, but can happen on longer par 3s or par 5s. I played a course with a 600 yard par 5 from the whites and that just wasn't reachable.
That's part of why I'm trying to learn a longer swing at this point. It's been much harder to gain more length than it was to dial in accuracy. I will tell you that I wish I'd have swung away while young as opposed to learning a truncated, 3/4s swing that has now been grooved in with tens of thousands of reps.
I'm not an instructor, nor do I claim to be. I'm sure there are methods paired with a focus on fitness to gain flexibility that I'm sure they focus on.
I'm just saying that I wish I had learned to hit long and then hit straight. I think it's the right way to teach a new player regardless of their age. Learn the longest, flowing swing that the body can take and then learn how to hit the ball straighter.
My daughter is quite young (2), but is showing interest. When the time is right and she can understand what we're doing, I'll take her out. I'll make sure that all of her early instruction though is geared towards length.
Distance is great and certainly can help you score in golf. I think I would rather see someone learn to play from the green back to the tee. As most have said at one time or another on THP anyone can learn to putt and short game. Not a lot of strength needed to hit those shots. An added benefit is the confidence gained as one has success with these short shots. Distance is one of my biggest challenges, compared to others, that make golf difficult for me. My short game is not the best either by a long stretch. Just my take. I guess my stance is learning is fostered with small successes to keep people interested and wanting to learn. People learn differently and I'm sure both methods work, its just figuring out which method is best for you.
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No kid is going to play high-level college golf hitting the ball 230-240 yards these days. Every one of my instructor's younger competetive students crushes the ball, and they have to do that to keep up. They are also very good elsewhere on the course, but unless we are talking just learning to play for the hell of it - you need to be able to hit the ball far.
The cool thing about kids is they have no fear and they aren't embarassed like adults. That's why you can teach them to just go for it. They aren't worried about vanity like adults are.
The cool thing about kids is they have no fear and they aren't embarassed like adults. That's why you can teach them to just go for it. They aren't worried about vanity like adults are.
JoeyJoeJo
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Some interesting thoughts in here.
I too am a short player who has difficulty in hitting some par 4s in two and I don't have the luxury of choosing from multiple tees, it's yellows for casual, whites for competitions, competitions count for handicap, so I'm immediately on the back foot in that regard, so I wish I'd been encouraged to develop distance when younger.
But I picked up golf in the 80's and no one, not a single person, ever said try to hit it far, it was universally accepted that accuracy won every time where I came from.
If I was starting any kids off, I'd definitely encourage this thought now.
I too am a short player who has difficulty in hitting some par 4s in two and I don't have the luxury of choosing from multiple tees, it's yellows for casual, whites for competitions, competitions count for handicap, so I'm immediately on the back foot in that regard, so I wish I'd been encouraged to develop distance when younger.
But I picked up golf in the 80's and no one, not a single person, ever said try to hit it far, it was universally accepted that accuracy won every time where I came from.
If I was starting any kids off, I'd definitely encourage this thought now.
I don't see how you don't preach distance these days, courses are not getting any shorter for competitive golf, and like Hawk has mentioned you have to bomb it just to keep up. Take Lexi Thompson for instance, she grew up trying to keep up with her brothers and now pounds it out there with the best of them, it is a huge advantage for her. If my daughter ever shows interest in golf the first two clubs I would buy are driver and putter.
evand23mc
Master of my own Domain
I can see why this would make sense, wishing it had been the case when I was a junior golfer. Really tough to gain distance now.