Drivers - Biggest and Best - Your thoughts?

[Esox]

I want 15 more yards. That would shave 3 shots off my game at my home course. I also want to be taller.

Kevin

 

[All4's]

I'm with you on most of your posts but throw out the law of physics that determines your distance? Neigh, I think not good sir.

The difference here is that A is the equation is not in proportional lockstep with M. Thus with a lower weight you can increase your accereration in a higher ratio then one is removing mass from the striking object. Further more, if lighter lets one hit the center of the face more frequently there is no degredation on A where it is independant of M thus allowing more force to be imparted on the ball.

Correct and I'm glad you said that instead of me as you did a great job.

OH, I know physics are integral to golf, and I was a little dramatic in that proclamation, but the argument presented in the article is very misleading. Because of the limit of COR already established for driver performance, extra mass in the driver head does not effect transfer of energy to the ball in any significant way. Granted, on off center hits, more mass will aid in helping the clubhead maintain stability and thus transfer energy to the ball. But on center contact, as you stated, the mass does not appreciably affect the ball speed with more mass.

BUT the real way to look at F=mA for driver distance is this: Force is a constant (golfer's technique and strength), and the time (well, really, the space) to accelerate is also constant, so the only way to generate more speed is to increase acceleration. The best way to increase acceleration is then to remove mass (or to get golf lessons). a= F/m

So for me, for instance, I can swing the new light drivers about 5 mph faster than my current driver. But despite the 30 or more grams of weight I'm "losing", my smash factor remains the same. Thus, the author stating that removing mass doesn't help you hit the ball further is, at least in my experience false.

Not exactly. It doesn't work that way. COR doesn't work that way. If you have two driver heads, both with .830 COR faces, both traveling at 100mph, the heavier of the two will go further.

Which is why Super Tuna nailed it in addressing the ratio of the speed gained against the weight reduced.

I'm still looking for the extra distance gain in new technology that I see my friends and others enjoy. For me I still hit my Cobra L4V (heavier than hell) farther than anything I've tried. I tried a bunch last year and never quite found the right fit. Still looking (Nike VR_S you have been warned).

Anywhoo, to the OP's question; yes, I think an extra 15 yards would really save me a stroke or two. The previous example of having 220 vs 205 or 165 vs 150 is enough IMO to save strokes.

Far, far, far more important to me is the enjoyment it would add to my game. Longer drives, out driving my buddies, reaching par 5's, etc. I've never been practical enough to say "I don't care if my buddies out drive me as long as I score better" and not be lying. I wish I was wired that way, it would save me grief, cash and untold ribbings but I'm just not. I play the game to hit fun shots AND to score well. I can't imagine giving up the former to improve the latter. But I recognize I'm likely in the minority. But hey, I pay my green fees so I get to hit that flop shot over the bunker after I've short sided the hell out of myself with the last "fun" shot.

 

[fairband]

I want 15 more yards. That would shave 3 shots off my game at my home course. I also want to be taller.

Kevin

Do you wanna be a baller? If you had a girl who looked good would you call her?

 

[BIRDOG]

So please, throw the F=mA equation out the window when you are looking at generating ball speed.

I'm with you, we should get rid of all that mumbojumbo rubish stuff, like E=mc2, the sun orbits around earth not the other way around, and yes, the earth is in fact flat, otherwise why did the Titanic sink.
I couldn't resist.LOL

 

[BIRDOG]

I think I might just try this for the fun of it. Can I just pretend I am Bubba and move it 50 yds closer?

Really? 50 is all you need to hit like Bubba?

 

[JR]

I actually don't carry a driver at the moment. You don't need one at my course, at all. I think golfers do get a little caught up in the whole distance thing. If I can get 15 more yards in the fairway? Sweet, sign me up. Unfortunately, that is not always the case. I believe a balance of distance and accuracy is ideal, with accuracy being given slightly higher priority. But your mileage may vary.

 

[roswellj]

If you really want to get into the physics of it then have a look at this. It is essentially Newtons second law but with a whole variation of factors written in. It doesn't even include the COR which would alter the calculations again. Also you have to remember that the mass of the entire club will not be included in the calculation as different forces are acting on different parts of the club so effectively the 'mass' of the entire club won't be exerting energy onto the ball during the contact phase. It's been a long time since I've done physics this complicated but it looks to be essentially correct.
Just go to http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-a-golf-swing.html if you don't want the page to be full of physics calculations.

Spoiler

Where:
r is the radius of the golfer's swing
P is the grip location where the golfer is holding on to the club
G is the center of mass of the golf club
l[SUB]G[/SUB] is the distance from P to the center of mass of the golf club
θ is the swing angle the golfer's arms make with the vertical
α is the angle the golf club makes with the golfer's arms

Next, we need to draw a free-body diagram of the golf club. This is the important object of study since it is the golf club that is reacting to "input" from the golfer, so it must be isolated from the system.

Where:
g is gravity, acting downwards. This value is equal to 9.8 m/s[SUP]2[/SUP]
l[SUB]club[/SUB] is the length of the club
M[SUB]P[/SUB] is the moment exerted on the golf club at P by the players hands
F[SUB]Px[/SUB] is the horizontal force exerted on the golf club at P by the players hands
F[SUB]Py[/SUB] is the vertical force exerted on the golf club at P by the players hands
G(x,y) is the position, in Cartesian coordinates, of the center of mass G. Note that this position is with respect to ground, and is a function of time.

We can express the position of the center of mass as follows:

Next, using Newton's Second Law we write the general force equation in the x-direction:

Where:
ΣF[SUB]x[/SUB] is the sum of the forces in the x-direction
m is the mass of the golf club
a[SUB]Gx[/SUB] is the acceleration of the center of mass in the x-direction, with respect to ground
Note that

Thus we have

For simplicity, note the following notation:

For simplicity, it is also assumed that the golfer's arms rotate at a constant angular velocity. In other words, the angular acceleration is zero:

Similarly, by Newton's Second Law the general force equation in the y-direction is:

where ΣF[SUB]y[/SUB] is the sum of the forces in the y-direction, and a[SUB]Gy[/SUB] is the acceleration of the center of mass in the y-direction, with respect to ground.
Note that

Thus we have

We must now write the general moment equation for rotation of a rigid body about its center of mass G.

Where:
ΣM[SUB]G[/SUB] is the sum of the moments about the center of mass
I[SUB]G[/SUB] is the moment of inertia of the golf club about its center of mass, about an axis pointing out of the page
α[SUB]club[/SUB] is the angular acceleration of the club
Note that

This is the angular acceleration of the golf club with respect to ground.
Thus, the moment equation becomes

To solve these equations we can substitute (1) and (2) into (3). The resulting equation is as follows:

This is a second order differential equation in terms of α. It can only be solved numerically. It will solved for the part of the swing where the wrists are uncocked, and subject to the following initial conditions at the release point, given as:

Note that α = 90° is a common (and approximate) angle that golfer's hold the club relative to their arms, prior to uncocking their wrists.
An additional condition is that M[SUB]P[/SUB] = 0 since the wrists are allowed to rotate freely at the release point, and at every point in the swing thereafter.
The other unknown quantities in the equation such as r, m, l[SUB]G[/SUB], I[SUB]G[/SUB] are constants based on the properties of the golf club and the parameters of the golfer's swing.
Using trial and error, one must input different wrist uncocking (release) angles, in the above equation (for θ[SUB]o[/SUB]), until α = 180° at θ = 180° (in the solution).

Physics Of A Golf Swing — Solution
The physics of a golf swing can be illustrated in the graph below. This graph shows a representative solution which gives good insight into how the golf club angle α increases as the swing angle θ increases.

For the above solution shown in the graph, I chose the following input values which I feel are fairly representative of the typical golf club and golf swing:
l[SUB]G[/SUB] = 0.58 m
I[SUB]G[/SUB] = 0.015 kg-m[SUP]2[/SUP]
m = 0.300 kg
r = 0.5 m
dθ/dt = 15 rad/s
Initial swing angle θ[SUB]oi[/SUB] (at start of swing) = 10°
Swing angle θ[SUB]o[/SUB] (just before release) = 57°
Initial club angle α (just before release) = 90°

So according to this particular model, the optimal release angle to uncock your wrists is θ[SUB]o[/SUB] = 55-60° .

Physics Of A Golf Swing — Closing Remarks
It is interesting to see that the most rapid increase of club angle α(shown in the graph above) begins at a swing angle of around θ = 120° (even though uncocking of the wrists occurs much earlier in the swing). This is because the club angle α increases slowly at first before reaching a rapid release rate. However, looking at the strobe picture of Bobby Jones' swing one might (mistakenly) conclude that the correct swing angle to uncock your wrists is at approximately 120°, simply because that is when the increase in club angle α becomes very noticeable. Thus, analyzing the physics of a golf swing using a dynamics approach, will yield more accurate information than if someone were to just observe a golfer's swing, and draw conclusions from that. The lesson here is that certain information can only come to the surface when the physics of the problem is examined carefully.
A final consideration of the physics of a golf swing is to see how fast the club head moves at the point of impact, at the bottom position (using the previous input values). Since the club head is moving horizontally (in the x-direction) at the bottom position, there is no vertical component of velocity (in the y-direction). Therefore, the velocity of the club head is given as:

Note, the above equation is derived by calculating dx/dt, and replacing l[SUB]G[/SUB]with l[SUB]club[/SUB].
Using a club length l[SUB]club[/SUB] = 0.7 m, r = 0.5 m, θ = α = 180°, dθ/dt = 15 rad/s, and dα/dt = 19 rad/s (as calculated from the solution), we get V[SUB]x[/SUB]= 31 m/s for the club head speed just before it hits the ball.
It is interesting that, in analyzing the physics of a golf swing, we see that the arms and wrists play a somewhat passive role, and yet a powerful hit results. So where does the swing energy come from? It comes from the muscles in the torso and shoulders which swiftly rotate the golfer's arms and club through the swing. Uncocking the wrists at the optimal swing angle means that, as much energy as possible is transferred to the club head (in the form of kinetic energy), just before it contacts the ball.

 

[ddxu]

I'm a low spin player so I've had the most success with the TM SuperTri. I love the ability to swap shafts easily and the different weight ports let me tweak my ball flight. Its a few years old now, but haven't found anything I can hit better consistently.

 

[TripleBogieTim]

I want 15 more yards. That would shave 3 shots off my game at my home course. I also want to be taller.

Kevin

While we are at it, I want to be 50 lbs lighter and 10 years younger.....if I am going to dream....dream big!

Although I my try this 15 yard theroy during a round when I play by myself.

 

[Rvick82]

I'm a low spin player so I've had the most success with the TM SuperTri.

That is actually one of the drivers I am considering. Looks like a solid club for the money.


Sent from my DROIDX

 

[Rvick82]

Although I my try this 15 yard theroy during a round when I play by myself.

I think I am going to try this tomorrow - well if it not too busy on the course.


Sent from my DROIDX

 

[Hawk]

I think it's all relative. I think 15 yards is pretty big, especially for guys that are averaging 200 yards off the tee.

 

[ddec]

That is actually one of the drivers I am considering. Looks like a solid club for the money.

it really is a good club. I keep going back and forth on whether or not to ditch mine.

 

[Tmex]

I think it's all relative. I think 15 yards is pretty big, especially for guys that are averaging 200 yards off the tee.

Sure is Hawk. I'd love 15 extra carry yards. I wouldnt care if I was in the woods. Low stingers ftw!

 

[Hawk]

Sure is Hawk. I'd love 15 extra carry yards. I wouldnt care if I was in the woods. Low stingers ftw!

I know from my driver issues last year that I was desperate to get 15 yards. I don't really buy the whole longer is less accurate thing either. If the shaft/head combo fits you, it's the swing you put on it that determines how far you go into the woods. I think '15 yards further in the woods' is a flawed argument. I had no problem burying myself in trees when I was struggling to get 200 yards of carry.

 

[TC]

I actually don't carry a driver at the moment. You don't need one at my course, at all. I think golfers do get a little caught up in the whole distance thing. If I can get 15 more yards in the fairway? Sweet, sign me up. Unfortunately, that is not always the case. I believe a balance of distance and accuracy is ideal, with accuracy being given slightly higher priority. But your mileage may vary.

Well, if you plan on playing your home course for the rest of your life then I'd say you're fine to do that. I play lots of different courses. I can tell you for a fact that the course we play at the Georgia Outing, Old Union, you wouldn't hit a lot of the par 4's in regulation without banging driver off the tee. Certain courses dictate what's more successful for the golfer and sometimes you have to hit a driver.

 

[Rusty]

Instead of moving your drives forward, why not just move up one set of tees, but continue to use driver instead of 3 wood? I know when I play the White tees instead of the Blues, I average 5 or 6 strokes better. Thus, I would like to hit longer drives from the Blues (and with the Classic I think I will).

 

[Tmex]

I know from my driver issues last year that I was desperate to get 15 yards. I don't really buy the whole longer is less accurate thing either. If the shaft/head combo fits you, it's the swing you put on it that determines how far you go into the woods. I think '15 yards further in the woods' is a flawed argument. I had no problem burying myself in trees when I was struggling to get 200 yards of carry.

I agree Hawk. I thought it was the other way around for the longest time. But truth is, even if you're longer and in the woods... its still less to green from the woods haha. Its not like taking less of the tee guarantees lower scores. I hit 3w last round, 3x off the tee instead of driver and doubled each hole because I could not get off the tee with my 3w. But I kept trying because it was the safe play.

 

[ddec]

I know from my driver issues last year that I was desperate to get 15 yards. I don't really buy the whole longer is less accurate thing either. If the shaft/head combo fits you, it's the swing you put on it that determines how far you go into the woods. I think '15 yards further in the woods' is a flawed argument. I had no problem burying myself in trees when I was struggling to get 200 yards of carry.

I agree. I think I was more or just as accurate with my Razr Hawk set to 46 inches as I was with a Supertri at 44 3/4 or 45.

 

[TC]

I disagree with you guys at this point.

 

[Hawk]

Instead of moving your drives forward, why not just move up one set of tees, but continue to use driver instead of 3 wood? I know when I play the White tees instead of the Blues, I average 5 or 6 strokes better. Thus, I would like to hit longer drives from the Blues (and with the Classic I think I will).

That's how I feel as well. Last year, I just played from the white tees. This year I plan to move back.

I agree Hawk. I thought it was the other way around for the longest time. But truth is, even if you're longer and in the woods... its still less to green from the woods haha. Its not like taking less of the tee guarantees lower scores. I hit 3w last round, 3x off the tee instead of driver and doubled each hole because I could not get off the tee with my 3w. But I kept trying because it was the safe play.

I think I get too tense and try to steer the ball sometimes when I'm playing it safe.

Edit to say: I still do it though.

 

[TC]

Going from a shorter shaft to a longer shaft in itself changes one's swing. And it depends on the woods you're missing in. Miss in the woods here and you're hitting 3 off the tee.

 

[GrantD]

Well, if you plan on playing your home course for the rest of your life then I'd say you're fine to do that. I play lots of different courses. I can tell you for a fact that the course we play at the Georgia Outing, Old Union, you wouldn't hit a lot of the par 4's in regulation without banging driver off the tee. Certain courses dictate what's more successful for the golfer and sometimes you have to hit a driver.

This is true about Old Union. I would crush a driver and still have a long iron in to a Par 4 green. Crazy long!

 

[ddec]

Going from a shorter shaft to a longer shaft in itself changes one's swing. And it depends on the woods you're missing in. Miss in the woods here and you're hitting 3 off the tee.

true. But I can without a doubt tell you that I was more accurate with the Razr Hawk at stock length than any other driver I played last year. I think it's why fitting is key. What works for 1 person might not work for someone else.

 

[Hawk]

I disagree with you guys at this point.

I'll put it this way, because I really do agree with you and it is how I'm trying to play the game this year. Logic says that hitting fairway wood or hybrid is often the best option.

I'm trying to erase the mindset of using the shorter club to 'be safe' and instead using it because it fits the yardage that I want to end up at. When I step up to the tee thinking I have to swing a hybrid so I don't end up in trouble, I tend to hit the ball bad. I think it's just a matter of being tense or whatever.