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Ethics in the Golf Industry

Some things might appear unethical, but if they are within the laws there's nothing we can do about it. If they say a new club goes 20 yards farther, we should be asking ourselves, "20 yards farther than what?" Instead, most of us fall for the marketing.
 
bulldog said:
On the industry side..yes..in my mind but others my disagree.
Price fixing.

tappin from my big as note2
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HoselRocket104 said:
That's interesting. I've never thought of that but you may have a point. I'd be very interested hearing about price fixing and if it holds water. Bulldog, why do you think there's price fixing?
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I would also like to hear your reasoning. I don't think see the golf industry as different as any other highly consolidated industry in the way things are priced IMO.
 
Bulldog, why do you think there's price fixing?

Well I have no proof, just observations. You notice when a new club comes out that the price is the same at every store and when they go on sale every store has the same sell price, now this don't count places like eBay or Overstock. Also you'll see ads that state cannot show sale price because of manufacturer restrictions
 
bulldog said:
Bulldog, why do you think there's price fixing?

Well I have no proof, just observations. You notice when a new club comes out that the price is the same at every store and when they go on sale every store has the same sell price, now this don't count places like eBay or Overstock. Also you'll see ads that state cannot show sale price because of manufacturer restrictions
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When you control your distribution, companies are very easily able to control pricing, that includes restricted price points. Price fixing would be if a couple stores or OEMs got around a table and said "all drivers should be $400". Again, what you are calling pricing is actually pretty standard results from a highly consolidated and tightly maintained distribution industry.
 
Understood but to me po.tat.o ..po tot o

tappin from my big as note2
 
bulldog said:
Understood but to me po.tat.o ..po tot o

tappin from my big as note2
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There will always be subtleties of price fixing in any competitive industries where the focus is on the bottom line and cash flow. You saw it this year (and most years) with TM and Callaway woods. TM overstocked the shelves, dropped all their drivers by $100, and Callaway fired back with the same to maintain demand levels. You need to stay competitive, which mean pricing around the same level, but you also don't want to beat each other into the ground because then nobody wins.
 
I don't know if it would fit the "unethical" bill, but I feel like PGA Value Guide Trade In Values (as well as individual company values, like PGA SS and Golfsmith, which doesn't use value guide) are seriously under what the club is really worth. I've seen clubs at Golfsmith that had a Trade In Value of $7 (yes, seven) being sold used for upwards of $100. I don't begrudge the right of anyone to make a profit, but that is ridiculous.
 
mastapp said:
I don't know if it would fit the "unethical" bill, but I feel like PGA Value Guide Trade In Values (as well as individual company values, like PGA SS and Golfsmith, which doesn't use value guide) are seriously under what the club is really worth. I've seen clubs at Golfsmith that had a Trade In Value of $7 (yes, seven) being sold used for upwards of $100. I don't begrudge the right of anyone to make a profit, but that is ridiculous.
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^^^^^^^ I don't get where they come up with these figures. I've never traded in a club because their prices are so ridiculous.
 
I worked for a high end car audio company for quite a few years, and the pricing in golf is the same as it was back then in car audio. I was the go between guy between the dealer and the company itself, so I had to monitor what the dealers were doing. You had the cost to the dealer, MAP and MSRP. Dealers were not allowed to sell under MAP at all, it's in the contract they had to sign in order to be a dealer and if they did, they would no longer be dealers. MAP is what most would associate with "street price" because no one pays MSRP for anything, it's just a number to make you feel like you got a deal.

Using MAP pricing ensures that the product isn't devalued in the market by a few dealers that sell the product super cheap (usually internet based companies with no overhead) so that brick and mortar dealers could not be competitive because of their overhead. I'm sure that golf products follow a similar pricing system.
 
I just thought of this one too. Our club sells a dozen ProVs for $60. That's 25% markup on top of the markup other retail stores already have. There's only 3 places in town to get ProVs. Two are golf courses.
 
At my local club I see it all the time. Mainly with members taking advantage of things. They'll neglect 90 degree or cart path only rules and often go out in 5 somes. They'll also talk there way into a tee time with Marshall's when he place is packed. It's way the same group of guys that play money games with the head pro. It use to bother me but I've sadly gotten use to it.
 
For some reason this thread feels really ironic to me.
 
HoselRocket104 said:
I just thought of this one too. Our club sells a dozen ProVs for $60. That's 25% markup on top of the markup other retail stores already have. There's only 3 places in town to get ProVs. Two are golf courses.
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That's strange because my course sells them for $44 a dozen ($4 off) and my employee discount gets 50% off that. If the course owner is not getting wholesale prices, then they need to look for them as they are available and $60 for a dozen golf balls is outrageous.
 
Thainer21 said:
Whether it be on a club level, OEM level, marketing level, etc..

How do you all feel about what you see on a day to day basis in the game of golf? Have you witnessed any unethical behaviour at a golf course or within your club?
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Other than the fact that most of the people I play with can't add, and all the OEM's hype up equipment marketing to sell, it is an honest sport...........
 
jlukes said:
I always thought the golf industry was about as close to the pharmaceutical industry as you could get in terms of companies making claims to improve the well-being/performance of the consumer.

However, the Pharmaceutical industry has the FDA to mandate which claims can be made (only if they are proven) where as the golf industry really has not regulations in terms of marketing.
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I agree. Golf OEM marketing is similar to the products you see in GNC. If the distance claims were true everyone would be hitting their drive 300 in the fairway ?

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tdinbr said:
How about the in store putting greens that some retailers use that have grooves under the surface running to the cups. Think its a coincidence that those new putters you try out in the store seem to "can't miss"? But its a different story out on the course. That and jacked up simulators are definitely unethical in my opinion.
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I have never heard of this before.

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Erky said:
Is it unethical to push gimmicks and junk technology as a revolutionary improvement to the game of golf? Because basically every OEM does that to a degree.
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There's a difference between ethics and opinion, no?
 
Well I'm feeling pretty good about ethics in golf since everything that you guys have mentioned isn't really that bad, or even can be called unethical at all. Unethical would be advertising a certain green fee and then jack it up when you are about to pay. Most pro shops are more expensive - why? - because at that point you usually have no choice, and choice is actually worth something. Would you usually buy stuff at a golf course pro shop unless you had to? I know I wouldn't, unless it's one of the ones where they are trying to make more money with volume and actually work like a normal golf store. It's harder to operate that way because golfers usually go there to play, not to buy stuff. There are some courses which are able to successfully operate both, but it depends on the location.

The PGA value guide on the other hand, I'm not even sure. Trade in value just isn't very reliable since it's coming from the dealers, and they have every reason to under-report it. That is the biggest potential for ethical violations so far.

Just cuz I don't like groups in front of me to play slow (and at the same time not letting me play through every group that is too slow) doesn't make it unethical.
 
I really feel the word "ethics" is blurry in this context.
 
TripleBogieTim said:
Mostly just the few guys that don't quite play by the rules and there are plenty of sandbaggers around too....In fact I know a guy that plays 4-5 rounds per week minimum, but if you look his handicap scores up, he turns in like 2-3 cards a month...so he is only turning in the higher scores to keep his handicap up.
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I just dont know how people sleep like a baby knowing they are cheating others.

Its bad enough when people who dont play competitive maintain false lower scores because of ignoring rules and such. They are only cheating themselves there How does one walk around telling others he is better than he really is? i dont know how or why that makes anyone feel good at all even if it doesnt affect others.

But worse is when he does the same while in competition. And also is the other way around as you say when keeps a false higher cap than he deserves. Now he has a higher cap and also may not play honest too. Its amazing to me how the heck some people can sleep snuggly at night? i just dont know.
 
How about price gouging. Why should it cost more to golf on the weekend? I know it goes on in every industry with just about anything we do prime time but still doesnt make it right imo.
You can come up with resons to justify it but bottom line its price gouging imo. not ethical
 
rollin said:
How about price gouging. Why should it cost more to golf on the weekend? I know it goes on in every industry with just about anything we do prime time but still doesnt make it right imo.
You can come up with resons to justify it but bottom line its price gouging imo. not ethical
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Supply and demand. That isn't price gouging. That's smart business.
 
Blu - you can call it that, and in the terms of business it is considered smart for sure but that still doesnt make it ethical imo. Its taking advantage of the masses no matter how we slice it.
 
rollin said:
Blu - you can call it that, and in the terms of business it is considered smart for sure but that still doesnt make it ethical imo. Its taking advantage of the masses no matter how we slice it.
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How many more people will play a course on a Saturday or a Sunday compared to a Tuesday?

With that higher traffic you need to have more rangers on the course, more carts on the course, more maintenance and ground repair, more bartenders, more staff in the proshop. It isn't price gouging or taking advantage. It's covering overhead.
 
I always just thought it was cheaper during the week to attract more people.
 
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