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Graphite Iron Shafts - The New Norm?

Nippon Shafts
tahoebum said:
I think until more than half of the PGA Tour players are using them, golfers won't be willing to pay extra for graphite iron shafts. I don't know if that will happen any time in the next 30 years. Steel iron shafts are light enough, very low torque, consistent, and relatively cheap to make. I personally am not trying to maximize the distance out of my irons very often so I don't see myself paying more for graphite that won't help me hit it any closer. Isn't the percentage of tour players currently using graphite shafted iron sets less than 10%? Kuchar, Snedeker, Rich Beem, and Boo Weekly are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
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JB said:
It is still lower than 10%.
However I should add that graphite does not just mean lighter and distance.
It can be every bit as stable as steel.
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It wasn't all that long ago that tour players were still using steel shafts in their titanium drivers and fairway woods. Now they are all using graphite (or at least 98%+). I think it's just a matter of time before we start seeing the conversion on the iron side... as quality continues to improve and production costs diminish, I can see steel shafts going the way of the buggy whip. I wouldn't have thought this even possible, but I hit a demo club with the new Recoil shafts and now I'm a believer it will definitely happen. At least that's my two cents.
 
I love my Steelfiber i110s. After an hour fitting different steel shafts I hit them and at first didn't even realize they were graphite - I was trying not to pay attention to prevent any bias amongst makers. After a few swings with awesome numbers I looked down and asked about them. After that I had to spend the extra. And that's the biggest issue to me - cost. No way I would have gotten them if I wasn't splurging a little. Stigma goes away fast once someone tries them and realizes how awesome they are. Now that I'm used to them i regularly hit twice as many GIR as I did with steel. Results talk.
 
G$$$ said:
It wasn't all that long ago that tour players were still using steel shafts in their titanium drivers and fairway woods. Now they are all using graphite (or at least 98%+). I think it's just a matter of time before we start seeing the conversion on the iron side... as quality continues to improve and production costs diminish, I can see steel shafts going the way of the buggy whip. I wouldn't have thought this even possible, but I hit a demo club with the new Recoil shafts and now I'm a believer it will definitely happen. At least that's my two cents.
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And now many of the PGA Tour players are switching to graphite driver shafts that are 100+ grams, choosing control over distance. The graphite iron shafts played on tour are 95+ grams, in the same weight range as many steel shafts. IMO, their are great reasons to play a graphite shaft in a driver or 3 wood, but for someone like me who only gets new irons once every decade, I don't believe switching to graphite shafts in my irons will help my game one iota. The PGA Tour has been mostly graphite driver shafts for 20 years, yet nearly all these players are using steel in their irons. Since these players can get any shaft for free, common sense tells me that if graphite iron shafts offered even a miniscule advantage, we would find them more prevalent on Tour.

Accuracy, feel explain why some PGA Tour players have gone to heavier driver shafts

By E. Michael Johnson
There was some heavy lifting happening at the Commercial Bank Qatar Masters and Farmers Insurance Open.

gary-woodland-gw-equipment-0203.jpg

Gary Woodland. Photo: J.D. CubanSergio Garcia won in Qatar using a 100-gram Mitsubishi Diamana White Board shaft in his TaylorMade SLDR driver. Gary Woodland, meanwhile, was in contention to the very end at Torrey Pines with a 102-gram Mitsubishi Diamana S+ Blue Board. The hefty driver shafts are indicative of a movement, by some, away from the lighter weight shafts that have made inroads on tour the past few years.
It is easy to understand why drivers with lighter shafts became popular. One of the biggest benefits to tour players in the quest for distance has been the arrival of lightweight graphite shafts that could withstand the stress delivered by high swing speeds. The lighter the shaft, the faster the club can be swung. The faster the club is moving, the farther the ball goes. It is why the most popular weight for driver shaft-weights on the PGA Tour is still in the mid-60-gram range, with some players having tried shafts less than 50 grams.
But more and more, there are exceptions -- players opting for driver shafts decidedly heavier than most of their tour brethren. Yet with distance considered such a precious commodity, why would tour players consciously leave yards on the table by using a shaft that would contribute to a slower swing speed?
For most players in the "heavy" camp, the answer is control, Woodland included.
Related: 2014 Hot List Drivers
"I have plenty of speed, but I need to keep the ball in play to be successful," Woodland told Golf World last year when asked about using a weighty driver shaft. "The extra weight allows me to feel where the clubhead is during the swing and that helps me find more fairways. It's a plus for my game and not a negative at all."
Tiger Woods is also back to using a heavier shaft in his Nike driver. Woods was one of the last to forego a steel shaft for graphite and over time the weight in his driver shaft crept lower, eventually to less than 70 grams. However, at the Northwestern Mutual World Challenge in December, Woods went heavy again, switching to a Mitsubishi Diamana Blue Board 103-gram shaft. Woods said that as he became more comfortable with his swing, he felt he could handle the weight again and that it gave him a better feel of the club at impact.


 
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I believe that cost and stigma are the biggest limiting factors.

Cost will naturally come down as manufacturing efficiencies and advances are realized.

The stigma might be longer in change however. Pros playing graphite will help though. Seems like the AVERAGE player still thinks graphite is for the old guys.

JM
 
tahoebum said:
And now many of the PGA Tour players are switching to graphite driver shafts that are 100+ grams, choosing control over distance. The graphite iron shafts played on tour are 95+ grams, in the same weight range as many steel shafts. IMO, their are great reasons to play a graphite shaft in a driver or 3 wood, but for someone like me who only gets new irons once every decade, I don't believe switching to graphite shafts in my irons will help my game one iota. The PGA Tour has been mostly graphite driver shafts for 20 years, yet nearly all these players are using steel in their irons. Since these players can get any shaft for free, common sense tells me that if graphite iron shafts offered even a miniscule advantage, we would find them more prevalent on Tour.

Accuracy, feel explain why some PGA Tour players have gone to heavier driver shafts

By E. Michael Johnson
There was some heavy lifting happening at the Commercial Bank Qatar Masters and Farmers Insurance Open.

gary-woodland-gw-equipment-0203.jpg

Gary Woodland. Photo: J.D. CubanSergio Garcia won in Qatar using a 100-gram Mitsubishi Diamana White Board shaft in his TaylorMade SLDR driver. Gary Woodland, meanwhile, was in contention to the very end at Torrey Pines with a 102-gram Mitsubishi Diamana S+ Blue Board. The hefty driver shafts are indicative of a movement, by some, away from the lighter weight shafts that have made inroads on tour the past few years.
It is easy to understand why drivers with lighter shafts became popular. One of the biggest benefits to tour players in the quest for distance has been the arrival of lightweight graphite shafts that could withstand the stress delivered by high swing speeds. The lighter the shaft, the faster the club can be swung. The faster the club is moving, the farther the ball goes. It is why the most popular weight for driver shaft-weights on the PGA Tour is still in the mid-60-gram range, with some players having tried shafts less than 50 grams.
But more and more, there are exceptions -- players opting for driver shafts decidedly heavier than most of their tour brethren. Yet with distance considered such a precious commodity, why would tour players consciously leave yards on the table by using a shaft that would contribute to a slower swing speed?
For most players in the "heavy" camp, the answer is control, Woodland included.
Related: 2014 Hot List Drivers
"I have plenty of speed, but I need to keep the ball in play to be successful," Woodland told Golf World last year when asked about using a weighty driver shaft. "The extra weight allows me to feel where the clubhead is during the swing and that helps me find more fairways. It's a plus for my game and not a negative at all."
Tiger Woods is also back to using a heavier shaft in his Nike driver. Woods was one of the last to forego a steel shaft for graphite and over time the weight in his driver shaft crept lower, eventually to less than 70 grams. However, at the Northwestern Mutual World Challenge in December, Woods went heavy again, switching to a Mitsubishi Diamana Blue Board 103-gram shaft. Woods said that as he became more comfortable with his swing, he felt he could handle the weight again and that it gave him a better feel of the club at impact.
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This is just not accurate. Saying one offers more than the other based solely by tour use is just not there. Comfort has a lot to do with it. Based on your thought here one would say that inserts in putters are definitely better because more tour pros use putters with them than non inserts.

And fwiw, your example article by our friend Mike even says that the most popular weight for driver shafts is mid 60s. So based again on your thought process here, since the majority of tour pros are using lighter weight driver shafts than they must be better.

25 years ago the majority of tour pros used muscle backs and we heard the same thing. You couldn't work the ball with perimeter weighted irons. A dozen years ago tour pros did not use hybrids and we heard the same thing. Hybrids were for old people. Then a handful made the switch and a few years later the masses did.

Nobody has said that the graphite used on tour or that becomes the norm will be lighter so I'm not sure where the hang up with weight is. Just as I am not sure where the thought is that graphite in nature is less accurate. Both of those are not all that accurate. However as technolgoy evolves things change even on the largest stage and do eventually trickle down. We saw the reverse with hybrids as they became the norm for the amateur before thet our pro.

Last year on the PGA Tour we saw a handful of wins by graphite shafted irons. Not a lot of use as of yet, but moreso than just a few years ago. And each year it seems 1-2 players are switching and testing.
 
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Listed in the OP were

Is it cost?
Stigma attached?
Quality?
Tour player usage?

I personally think stigma is the #1 reason and it is probably not even close. Most people think of them as old man and lady shafts and won't even give them a chance. I think perceived quality is next because again most have never even tried graphite iron shafts because of the stigma. Cost is probably the next reason but that really doesn't hold much water as people own multiple putters, drivers and even iron sets so trying out one set of graphite shafted irons for a couple hundred more dollars would just be a drop in the bucket. Of course tour player usage will always play a part in some peoples minds but the average golfer probably has no idea what is in play on tour except for the Titleist golf ball.

The original list really nails exactly why I feel most people have yet to even begin to entertain the thought of gaming (or even trying graphite shafts in their irons.)
 
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I think Dawg may have hit the nail on the head as some people see graphite shafted irons as a club for the old or female golfers. All I know is they helped a wrist problem I had almost immediately after I switched!
 
I was playing with graphite shafts not too long ago. they were tm r7's with stiff graphite shafts and I thought they were slightly a little whippy but not bad. one thing I would take over steel shafts anyday that you get with graphite is feeling the weight of the club head.
 
JB said:
It is still lower than 10%.
However I should add that graphite does not just mean lighter and distance.
It can be every bit as stable as steel.
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For about double the cost if not more. Golf is already so expensive a lot of people can't afford this luxury.
 
JRod said:
For about double the cost if not more. Golf is already so expensive a lot of people can't afford this luxury.
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Bingo. When a company releases a set of irons that costs the exact same for the steel-shafted version as the graphite-shafted version, that will help in the marketplace. Part of me thinks that graphite iron shafts of varying price levels will become more prevalent in the coming years, but I also wonder how much R&D a company will put into a $10-20 graphite iron shaft when that same company may see bigger profit margins in the driver/fairway wood shaft market.
 
JRod said:
For about double the cost if not more. Golf is already so expensive a lot of people can't afford this luxury.
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Cost is a big issue. But to be fair, cost has always meant premium to golfers.
Look at golf balls, putters, etc.
The more expensive the golf ball is, has always meant that it was "better" to the average golfer. In fact there was a thread a while back that talked about the Chrome ball being inferior based solely on price. Look at drivers. The general view of the $399 model vs the $299 model.
Yet when it comes to shafts, graphite costs more, but is still viewed as inferior by many.
 
I'm going to preface this by noting i am not a fitter, and probably could/will be schooled in this topic easily
For me it's:
1. Complexity: Steel shafts seem pretty simple. R, S, X, and light/heavy. I've never had to think about steel driver shafts, but my main experience with graphite shafts have been in woods and drivers. Seeing the complexity with that selection process (all of which may be true for steel, as i said, i don't know), i wouldn't even know where to start in picking a graphite shaft. Many times we're kind of defaulted into our steel shafts usually by availability and price. Many times the upcharge for graphite shafts is $100 on a set of clubs, if i'm going to spend that money, i want to make sure that the graphite shafts selected fit, otherwise i'll go with the cheaper option.
2. Cost. Not just the cost of the shaft, as mentioned graphite is typically more expensive than steel. But if i'm going to upgrade any shaft, i would go for a fitting. I have DG S300 in my irons now (stock), even if i wanted to go to another steel shaft i would want a fitting. And am i really going to get that huge benefit for my investment, probably not until my swing looks better.

As for stigma, if i was fit for recoil shafts, and i knew for a fact they were the best for me and the same price as the default steel, i wouldn't have a problem gaming them.

just my two cents.
 
So after don't some intense research lately I can say what most already know. The cost of Graphite iron shafts is absolutely ridiculous.

I don't know how they expect people to afford a 1000 dollar set of clubs with an extra 440 dollars worth of shafts tacked on. At this point I really don't have a choice if I want to continue playing golf somewhat pain free but it's extremely frustrating.

Maybe this belonged in the rant thread.
 
I think cost will be the biggest hurdle for me. I prefer a slightly heavier shaft than will often come standard - somewhere in the 110-120 range. I've had trouble trying to swing the 50-60 gram stock graphites with any consistency. I can find a steel shaft for little up charge in most brands but the graphite that would be a good fit tends to get pricey.

If the price was the same or close to steel, I'd play whatever felt and performed better.
 
With the Recoil shafts coming to retail at $45 per shaft, I feel that other manufacturers will soon follow suit. That is still a bit pricey for most, but if you think about it, a new C Taper from KBS is about $37 per shaft, so the recoils aren't far off. I think Quality is definitely there, but there is a lack of tour presence. Most of the tour guys that have moved away from steel are using Steelfibers, and those are still pretty pricey. Even pulls are over $300 a set on most forums. I play Recoils mostly, and though the retail are nice, the prototypes felt more closely to steel. Those ones are still in the neighborhood of $90 per shaft.

The reason I went to graphite is longevity in playing. I am only 28, but have bad elbows and wrists from years of bowling. The more I can dampen the impact with the ground (I am a high SS digger, current shafts are the 125 F5 version recoils) the better off I will be long term. When playing PX 7.0 and DG X100 hard stepped shafts, every time I hit the ground was a mystery as to whether or not it would hurt. And in winter, when the ground is firmer, I would catch myself not committing to a shot because I knew in the back of my mind that it was not going to feel good. Now with the recoils, I can go after it all I want and the shafts take the brunt of the blow. And with as hard as I swing and as big of divots as I take, I have not had any issues with durability in the shafts.
 
I picked up a 588 MT 4 iron with a Recoil Prototype 125 F4 shaft and it feels fantastic. It is a shame the protos are so expensive as I would love to have them in all my irons.
 
Shanep10 said:
I picked up a 588 MT 4 iron with a Recoil Prototype 125 F4 shaft and it feels fantastic. It is a shame the protos are so expensive as I would love to have them in all my irons.
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How much are they? Fuji mcis are supposed to retail for like 150 a shaft I believe.
 
Sure, why not..... I will replace my golf shaft with graphite after I reached 50 years old, ( or probably sooner than 50 haha ) I am thinking of using UST Mamiya Recoil 460 for iron 4,5 ; recoil 660 for iron 6,7,8,9 ; recoil 680 for P, GW, 54, 60.
 
Cost is a factor. But the biggest factor is perception. if more OEMs just started to offer only recoils or steel fibres in their stock irons and the price for a set was the same as steel, then people would test and buy.Its all about what the OEMs are offering, and their are probably unwilling to take this step, to offer graphite as the main shaft with no upcharge. The perception of most golfers would be its an old mans shaft. I had this comment, "oh you play graphite in your irons???" My answer in 5 years you will be too. the perception that you are not strong enough for steel or that graphite is for super slow swingers is funny. Try swinging a steel fibre shaft. Its pretty stout. The benefits of graphite are so wide. Its the future. steel is dead as far as I am concerned. no reason to even look at them. And the graphite is only gonna get better. sure there are some great steel shafts but I see no reason to hit them, premium steel shafts are expensive too.
 
Has anyone shaved a .370 parallel tip down to a .355. Is this something that can be a dyi or take it to a shop or just avoid it all together.
 
Scrap Iron said:
Has anyone shaved a .370 parallel tip down to a .355. Is this something that can be a dyi or take it to a shop or just avoid it all together.
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Absolutely. Have done this to a number of sets. Not difficult at all. Take your time and go slow. Your removing such a small amount that some 80-100 grit sandpaper can do the job. And you are only doing it to the top 1/2" or so of the shaft.
 
Recently made the change from Recoils over to Aldila SLT 115. Great shafts to be honest. Most of the top tier graphite are very comparable to steel. Cost is going to be the determining factor for a lot of people though. For a good set of graphite, you will probably pay about twice what you would for steel or more.
 
Listed in the OP:

  • Cost
  • Stigma
  • Quality
  • Tour Player Usage
My thoughts on this that it's a little bit of each. However, IMO, I believe that the number one reason would be tour player usage. If about half of the top 30 tour players used graphite shafts in their irons today, people would be demanding graphite shafts for themselves.

Take a look a what happens after a major tour win. Whatever putter the winner used in that tournament, the sales of that putter skyrockets on the Monday. I'm not saying that that this is the way people should be buying equipment, but that's the way it is.

Cost will always be important to some, but adding less than 15% to a set of irons for many is simply not an issue for the majority of golfers - especially here on THP.

Graphite has improved a lot, especially in the last three to five years. Six years ago, torque values on low torque graphite shafts were typically around 5.5 or more. Today a Ping CFS r-flex graphite shaft has a 2.3 torque value. IMO, there has been more improvement in graphite vs. steel shafts over the last several years.

So once the majority of tour players goto graphite shafts in their irons, steel shafts will be outsold by graphite shafts.

Today how many tour players use graphite in their drivers, fairway woods and hybrids? And today how many everyday players use graphite in their drivers, fairway woods and hybrids? Once the tour players switch to graphite - so will the golf industry. YMMV.

I just think of myself as being ahead of the curve. :banana:
 
My irons are now graphite for the first time ever. In fact, my edges are about to get an upgrade also. I consider myself a stronger swinger and my entire bag minus putter is going that way.
 
fupresti said:
My irons are now graphite for the first time ever. In fact, my edges are about to get an upgrade also. I consider myself a stronger swinger and my entire bag minus putter is going that way.
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Same here. My wedges are next. I have flat out loved the switch to recoils.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
 
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