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Graphite Iron Shafts - The New Norm?

Nippon Shafts
Tadashi70 said:
I guess I am curios what data points to this. Are club companies seeing an increase in Graphite orders. Given enough time anything can change but if given the option I don't seethe consumer changing. It would have to be forced by the manufactures.

Metal woods took over because companies limited their production of persimmon woods. The consumer didn't have much of choice.

I agree that eventually things will change but I guess I just don't see it happening in the next 20 years. (probably could have lead with this last statement)
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Freddie, I don't believe he was talking about the change from persimmon to metalwoods. I believe he was talking about the shaft change from Steel shafts in metalwoods to graphite shafts in metalwoods.

I'd be interested to see data from companies as well as to what % of irons sold are graphite now and if that numbers has increased noticeably in recent years.
 
Cost. To re-shaft a set of club's with Program, Steelfiber, Recoil, etc, is expensive! When I priced a change last year, I was looking at over $700. I figured I could just sell what I have and upgrade to new for cheaper.
 
Tadashi70 said:
I guess I am curios what data points to this. Are club companies seeing an increase in Graphite orders. Given enough time anything can change but if given the option I don't seethe consumer changing. It would have to be forced by the manufactures.

Metal woods took over because companies limited their production of persimmon woods. The consumer didn't have much of choice.

I agree that eventually things will change but I guess I just don't see it happening in the next 20 years. (probably could have lead with this last statement)
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Yes, there is an increase, but that is not really the driving factor. Technology is.
To give you an example of items that changed over time.
Metal woods would be first to notice this. I dont think the stop from persimmon was as drastic as you remember it. Although I was speaking to the shaft change in those clubs. Solid core ball is another example.

Technology has shown that there CAN be quite a few benefits, especially considering who is golfing. Remember when hybrids were considered an old man club? It was a common notion until less than a decade ago really. That has changed and it is used by all skill levels including the best in the world.

Shaft technology has changed drastically over the last decade. The manipulation that can be done and materials that are used have had so many advances. Now shaft technology is actually being marketed. Albeit in metal woods for distance more so than anything else. There is no reason to believe as irons have also been marketed with distance that the correlation is that far off.

The truth is though, that most golfers (people for that matter), do not understand graphite. They just assume graphite is a material just like steel is. That is 100% not correct.

Graphite needed to catch up and not just be a joint issue fix and be a true technology story. It has done so.
 
In my opinion, cost is the primary obstacle. Some golfers are taking the plunge, and spending extra, to get graphite (me included). However, most "typical" golfers are going to walk in to GG or GS, hit a couple of irons they like the look of, and go with the cheapest purchase price for the set, even if they try the graphite and it works well for them. Behind that, I think there is still some stigma to using graphite in the irons. Granted, I don't think this applies to most posters on THP, but most golfers don't spend as much time getting good, updated tech. information on graphite improvements/advances as THPers do.
 
I do enjoy learning from you and you know I am all for change and better technology. If that is the way we are headed then I need to pay better attention. Thanks for breaking it down brother
JB said:
Yes, there is an increase, but that is not really the driving factor. Technology is.
To give you an example of items that changed over time.
Metal woods would be first to notice this. I dont think the stop from persimmon was as drastic as you remember it. Although I was speaking to the shaft change in those clubs. Solid core ball is another example.

Technology has shown that there CAN be quite a few benefits, especially considering who is golfing. Remember when hybrids were considered an old man club? It was a common notion until less than a decade ago really. That has changed and it is used by all skill levels including the best in the world.

Shaft technology has changed drastically over the last decade. The manipulation that can be done and materials that are used have had so many advances. Now shaft technology is actually being marketed. Albeit in metal woods for distance more so than anything else. There is no reason to believe as irons have also been marketed with distance that the correlation is that far off.

The truth is though, that most golfers (people for that matter), do not understand graphite. They just assume graphite is a material just like steel is. That is 100% not correct.

Graphite needed to catch up and not just be a joint issue fix and be a true technology story. It has done so.
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My bad..
ddec said:
Freddie, I don't believe he was talking about the change from persimmon to metalwoods. I believe he was talking about the shaft change from Steel shafts in metalwoods to graphite shafts in metalwoods.

I'd be interested to see data from companies as well as to what % of irons sold are graphite now and if that numbers has increased noticeably in recent years.
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Tadashi70 said:
I do enjoy learning from you and you know I am all for change and better technology. If that is the way we are headed then I need to pay better attention. Thanks for breaking it down brother
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Thats the beauty of the question, brother. Nobody knows where we are headed. Just my general musings based on what I have learned. Time will tell. As always, thanks for the discussion.
 
Interesting topic. I have used steel since I started. I was fit at club champion according to my swing at the time--I even asked about graphite and he thought it would not be the best option for me. Could have been his bias toward steel or maybe just the fact that the ones he chose in steel fit me properly. FWIW I went in with an open mind and would have been happy to go with the best fit regardless.
 
JB said:
This is not a topic about the profiles of graphite, but a topic on what it will take for graphite to overtake steel as the new standard of golf shaft. In time, I dont think there is any doubt it happens. Whether that be 5 years or 50 years from now. The question is, what will it take for that to happen?

Is it cost?
Stigma attached?
Quality?
Tour player usage?

All of the above? What do you think has to happen for graphite to become the new standard across the board?
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We all know it's tour player usage. In fact, it only takes one person to start using them, a certain Mr Woods, and their demand will absolutely sky rocket. Look what happened when he started wearing those round neck shirts.The most ridiculous looking things ever, but every man and his dog was wearing them. Funnily enough, now he's stopped wearing them, I'm not even sure you can buy them anymore. Funny that.
 
I remember when Davis love showed up with his Loomis shafts and add laughed at.

The cost of good Graphite shafts are just ridiculous right now. I think that is the main factor.
 
For me, it comes down to performance. I'm not trying to hit my irons as far as possible to a 20-30 yard wide target. I am trying to hit the ball a precise yardage to within 5 yards of a center point. If graphite shafts were as stable and consistent as their steel counterparts than I would have no problem using them. Maybe these graphite shafts do exist - however its almost impossible for me to test at the local Golf Shop graphite shafts in the weight/flex that I would want for drivers let alone for irons.
 
dankil13 said:
For me, it comes down to performance. I'm not trying to hit my irons as far as possible to a 20-30 yard wide target. I am trying to hit the ball a precise yardage to within 5 yards of a center point. If graphite shafts were as stable and consistent as their steel counterparts than I would have no problem using them. Maybe these graphite shafts do exist - however its almost impossible for me to test at the local Golf Shop graphite shafts in the weight/flex that I would want for drivers let alone for irons.
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I feel pretty confident in saying these shafts do exist, from a performance standpoint. They aren't cheap, but they are "real". Your comment regarding availability is a good one - you can't go try out a Steelfiber or Recoil (just examples, not intended to be the complete list) at any neighborhood golf shop. So, even if someone is interested, just getting it in your hands can be a challenge.
 
i know nothing about graphite iron shafts... do they make them in a heavy version isnt that the reason people buy them to be light ? i do like my irons to have a nice weight to them they feel more stable to me. i dont think i would like a very light feeling iron.
 
ohio_striker said:
i know nothing about graphite iron shafts... do they make them in a heavy version isnt that the reason people buy them to be light ? i do like my irons to have a nice weight to them they feel more stable to me. i dont think i would like a very light feeling iron.
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there are options out there that are heavy. I tested a 130 gram matrix shaft at TMPL back in the spring. Not everyone uses them to reduce weight. There are other benefits to them such as vibration dampening.
 
ohio_striker said:
i know nothing about graphite iron shafts... do they make them in a heavy version isnt that the reason people buy them to be light ? i do like my irons to have a nice weight to them they feel more stable to me. i dont think i would like a very light feeling iron.
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ddec referenced a heavier option from Matrix. UST Mamiya has 125 gram models in the Recoils, and Aerotech has 125 gram models in the SteelFibers. I have a set of Recoil 110 Prototypes in one set of irons, and i110s in another. I transitioned to these after mostly playing heavier steel shafts for most of my golfing life. The lighter weight actually is now a welcome change.
 
I would have said no way...until I hit recoil shafts. I'm not sure if they're going to become the new norm per se, because I think unless a player is fitted for them or really wants graphite, people who buy clubs off the rack will save the $100 and buy steel shafts.

I'm a believer, though.
 
JB said:
Doesnt that completely cannabalize their marketing efforts however?
I mean they do have PX graphite iron shafts, but marketing them heavily goes against their bread and butter.

I am of the belief that the stigma still exists in a big way.
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I guess the golfers I'm around most just aren't that concerned about what shafts are in their irons. Cost and availability are the issues as to why they aren't adopted more (IMO). So I do believe that if your local Golfsmith had more graphite selections available to try, and they were the same price or just marginally more than steel, you'd get more golfers buying them.

Sure, for True Temper to market graphite shafts would go against their bread and butter. But your opinion in post #1 was that graphite would overtake steel, and I agree with that. Shaft manufacturers had better innovate and embrace graphite shaft technology, or their market share will start to erode. Not next year of course, but six years down the road, who knows?

Wouldn't it be interesting if graphite iron shafts became trendy and cool and it was the stuffy old guys who played steel? Given some price reductions, technology advances, and a good marketing campaign, I can see it happening.
 
I think tour usage, cost and to an extent peoples egos. A lot of people that dont have much knowledge think that graphite shafts in irons are only for slow swingers and higher hcps. There is a stigma about playing graphite shafts in irons that lets a persons ego get in the way of them trying it. To me its just like people dead set on playing a stiff or xstiff driver shaft over getting fit for the right shaft. It will take time and exposure but i give it 10 years and there will atleast be a 50/50 split on steel and graphite

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I think until more than half of the PGA Tour players are using them, golfers won't be willing to pay extra for graphite iron shafts. I don't know if that will happen any time in the next 30 years. Steel iron shafts are light enough, very low torque, consistent, and relatively cheap to make. I personally am not trying to maximize the distance out of my irons very often so I don't see myself paying more for graphite that won't help me hit it any closer. Isn't the percentage of tour players currently using graphite shafted iron sets less than 10%? Kuchar, Snedeker, Rich Beem, and Boo Weekly are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
 
tahoebum said:
I think until more than half of the PGA Tour players are using them, golfers won't be willing to pay extra for graphite iron shafts. I don't know if that will happen any time in the next 30 years. Steel iron shafts are light enough, very low torque, consistent, and relatively cheap to make. I personally am not trying to maximize the distance out of my irons very often so I don't see myself paying more for graphite that won't help me hit it any closer. Isn't the percentage of tour players currently using graphite shafted iron sets less than 10%? Kuchar, Snedeker, Rich Beem, and Boo Weekly are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
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It is still lower than 10%.
However I should add that graphite does not just mean lighter and distance.
It can be every bit as stable as steel.
 
JB said:
It is still lower than 10%.
However I should add that graphite does not just mean lighter and distance.
It can be every bit as stable as steel.
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Truth, and we are seeing this more and more out of companies the last few years. The Recoil Proto's play just like steel, but with the benefits of graphite.

Technology in graphite irons shafts continues to evolve and its cool to see. I still see myself permanently making the move in the future.
 
Seems to me that cost is a big hurdle for most. Stigma is a close second in my mind. Once the price comes down a bit I think more people will give it a fair shake and be pleasantly surprised!
 
The Price is what has held me off from doing my entire iron set in the Recoil shafts, you look at $40.00 per shaft, $25.00 per club to get them done and it adds up. I decided to move up to a set of x-hot irons and choose the ultra light metal shafts and came up with almost the same total weight in the club. I can say that the graphite is still on my bucket list and is I felt that I could do the bore thru heads myself it wouldn't be a big deal. So yes it's the cost holding me back.
 
JB said:
This is an interesting thought. People ask how much marketing is involved in golf. Take Steel Fibers that are used by a few Tour Players. I had a guy in a store tell me, "Well those are not really graphite, so younger people can use them".

They aren't? Hmmmm.
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Isn't the guy in the store technically correct? The are not just graphite, but they are not just steel either? Essentially a hybrid, and a new category of shaft?
 
I think it is all of the above.

I got asked the other day if I was getting old because I was using graphite shafts...

I kinda laughed, I have the black chrome KBS tours that look like graphite to some people.
 
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